Story about Matt Teerink and Vintage Speedsters Arizona debacle.
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I still don't see how this didn't rise to the level of a criminal matter. Per the article:
Werner and his wife saved up for the purchase and put down a 50% deposit. “We paid them $27,500,” he said. “We have all of our receipts.”
Months passed, and so did the big birthday. The car was never delivered, and the Werners say they couldn’t get any answers from the company’s owner, Matthew Teerink. “Then he wanted the rest of the money,” Werner told On Your Side. “I said, ‘We’re not going to give you any more money until we get the car.’”
Then, in November, Teerink sent an email to customers telling them he was planning to file for bankruptcy.
He has to know he's not going to deliver this guy's car yet, he's soliciting the balance owed. How is that not fraud?
It's a real mystery to me too. The elements of criminal and civil fraud are identical, only the burden of proof is different—preponderance of evidence in a civil case, beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal. But the tradition in the US is to let most of it slide. Bankruptcy courts let it go. AGs seldom take fraud cases criminal.
When you look at how the law works in these matters, it might make you scratch your head. A neighbor of mine spent a few years in the 2000s making bank by selling NFL throwback jerseys on line out of his basement. He says his supplier was the same broker in China who had the contract for the Ravens and other football teams. They were the same shirts, same material, same quality, he told me. But he wasn't paying the league its vig.
Feds served a search warrant and charged him. Criminal case, he was convicted, got probation and restitution. He may be still paying it, I don't know. Trademark infringement: criminal. Federal. Serious.
Now consider wage theft. Every day I see a half dozen cases in Maryland in which hair dressers and landscapers and kitchen staff and roofers got rooked out of their overtime pay, often for years on end. Some contractors and many restaurateurs do this as a business model. It's strictly civil. The penalty can be treble damages, but I don't know how often that's ordered and, knowing what I know about how bankruptcy courts work, I doubt sincerely these judgments get paid.
@Robert M posted:How is that not fraud?
Thin Blue Line. Isn’t Teerlink a former LEO?
ps: @Troy Sloan your link is broken. At least I’m getting a 404. Searching for anything from Robert’s quotes nets zero results on AZ Faimily.com
The link works fine for me. Is anyone else having a problem with it?
@dlearl476 posted:Thin Blue Line. Isn’t Teerlink a former LEO?
ps: @Troy Sloan your link is broken. At least I’m getting a 404. Searching for anything from Robert’s quotes nets zero results on AZ Faimily.com
@Troy Sloan posted:The link works fine for me. Is anyone else having a problem with it?
Works for me.
Here it is again:
Troy’s link has a “/?” at the end that yours doesn’t have. Yours works fine.
@Robert M posted:I still don't see how this didn't rise to the level of a criminal matter.
Link juju aside, I’m with you. I was flabbergasted when someone posted in the other thread that Teerlink replied to his legal threats with braggadocio about how he knew exactly how to game the courts so the poor buyer would get nothing but a big lawyer bill. I’m no lawyer but it seems to me an admission like that would elevate it from a civil matter to felony wire fraud.
.
Teerink, in an email to the Arizona TV station, sorta 'fessed up without intending to:
"I am currently living paycheck to paycheck..."
Only now we know where the 'paychecks' come from.
.
I learned something during The Recent Troubles. The Great Planning and Zoning War of 2022 reinforced the lesson.
Most laws are for "the little people". They're only employed and enforced when somebody is straying too far from the approved narrative, or threatening the authority of “the man”, however big or small he may be.
“The man” doesn’t care about you and me. In the eyes of the people in places of power, Teerink was peddling gross polluters to bad people willing to ravage the environment by buying such planet-destroying contraptions, and he merely gave them the haircut they so justly deserved. He did the world a real service, separating miscreants willing to step outside their place in formation from their money. They probably won't do it again unless they get some restitution, which they won't because “the man” doesn’t care. He wants you back in line.
Fraud cases are apparently only prosecuted when "the man" feels threatened, and Teerink was just fleecing people who (in the eyes of the state) deserve to be fleeced. “The man” is free to advance his more important agendas (like controlling speech and the use of private property).
Again, my powerlessness really chaps me. It ought not be so, and yet here we are.
Thanks for posting that article Troy.................Bruce
@Troy Sloan : Thank you for the article. It was an interesting, albeit sad, read.
At the risk of being "that guy" I will again share my ONLY experience with the Phoenix iteration of Vintage Speedsters. Shortly after I got into this hobby I was fortunate enough to meet Kirk and Mary Duncan not long after they sold their business. A quick side note: it's unfortunate the reputable builders have the potential to have their names sullied by this...and let's not forget about JPS...but I digress.
After much consideration I purchased parts from the Phoenix shop. Long story short: they left out a few items from my order and when I asked for a remedy they promised to make me whole by sending another package with the rest of my items. I got the package after a few days. Unfortunately it was not at all what I ordered.
I have long been a "cash and carry" type of guy. That experience just pushed me further in that direction.
Oh well. Caveat Emptor. Fortunately I was only out a few dollars.
I'm surprised that the Vintage Speedsters website is still up.
Jason
Chicken **** DA would be my guess. Intent seem pretty clear.
@Stan Galat posted:I learned something during The Recent Troubles. The Great Planning and Zoning War of 2022 reinforced the lesson.
Most laws are for "the little people". They're only employed and enforced when somebody is straying too far from the approved narrative, or threatening the authority of “the man”, however big or small he may be.
“The man” doesn’t care about you and me. In the eyes of the people in places of power, Teerink was peddling gross polluters to bad people willing to ravage the environment by buying such planet-destroying contraptions, and he merely gave them the haircut they so justly deserved. He did the world a real service, separating miscreants willing to step outside their place in formation from their money. They probably won't do it again unless they get some restitution, which they won't because “the man” doesn’t care. He wants you back in line.
Fraud cases are apparently only prosecuted when "the man" feels threatened, and Teerink was just fleecing people who (in the eyes of the state) deserve to be fleeced. “The man” is free to advance his more important agendas (like controlling speech and the use of private property).
Again, my powerlessness really chaps me. It ought not be so, and yet here we are.
As Skynyrd used to say :You got that right, sho got that right..." "Rules for thee and not for me".