Phoenix Phollies

If (for whatever reason) you still wanted to use the other sump (after changing everything back), any kind of liquid gasket goop (just use a thin smear) between the engine and sump mating surfaces will keep things dry. The thing to watch for with any sump- only the mating surfaces touch. While it doesn't happen a lot, people have been tripped up (with massive oil leaks!) when the body of the sump (usually a fin) touches the engine somewhere other than where they're supposed to. A little file work will restore clearance. Al

PS- Despite the issues, sounds like you guys had a good day! And get that collander back in the kitchen before it's noticed...

Yeah, I showed Cory how things on the bottom of the engine can cause interference issues and need some grinding. In this case the sumps were identical so it shouldn't have been a problem.

I was hysterical at the time, we laughed until we cried.

Did last nights homemade spaghetti seem particularly oily, Cory?

I think you guys need a kwikjack.com something fierce it would make your work under there so much easier...

That vicks is very multi purpose, clears nostrils and sinuses not to mention being a very good anti itch compound  

 

Yes, I am thinking with guys of your obvious interests, abilities and wherewithal, between you a decent lift in one garage or the other would be something that would get a lot of use.

And to open an old can of worms: what's the real deal with these extra sump thingies??  To me, they seem sorta superfluous and will add a significant degree of danger on account of hanging down so far.  You whack that thing on a stone or angled driveway, and you will have another very "major leak" is what I'm thinking.  So if that is the risk, what is the reward??

There's an app for that.

Kelly- the  2 1/2 quarts of oil in a VW type 1 is barely adequate for the stock engine, driven as the engineers intended, as an economy car. As soon as you start revving the engine faster/higher (even in stock form) and subject it to more cornering forces it becomes apparent very quickly there is not enough oil to drive in your newly discovered style. It's not all that hard to drive a completely stock beetle hard enough to have the oil light wink at you from the dash, ancover the oil pick up (even for a second or 2) enough times and the engine will cease to run, and it will be rebuild time. One of our own members (can't remember his name, but maybe he'll chime in) found this out 2 or 3 years ago, autocrossing his 2 liter powered Speedster with stock oil capacity. He was surprised when it died, and said the oil light only came on "occasionally" (or something like that). IIrc, the #1 main bearing (beside the flywheel) seized. 

ANY engine driven harder than the engineers at Wolfsburg intended needs more oil in the sump than the stock crankase can hold. Gene Berg said that "1 1/2 extra quarts would protect most street car engines to about 6,000rpm. Engines that revved above 6,000rpm or were used in serious competition needed the 3 1/2 quart sump." I've paraphased somewhat but that's the jist of it. Al

I have two engines that use Berg 4 quart sumps. There are long studs that go from the case, through the sump and plate. There is no way that sump could be put on a speedster. One of my engines has a 4 quart that is extra wide instead of deep and I think it would work, but when you put a filter and external cooler on, it's a lot of oil. My son's Herbie holds 8 quarts. It's pretty expensive to change the oil at $7 plus a quart.

When you think of how much you have invested in an engine, Paul, and the fact that you'll only change the oil in any of your toys once (or maybe twice) a year, it's not that expensive. Think of it as the "cost of  doing business".

True, true

Amen to that, Al.   I know what an oil change for my IM6 costs me, but it's only once - or at the extreme, twice - a year.

Cheap insurance, as they say. 

Cory really drives his car so if you do an oil change every 3K miles, it's probably 4 times a year for him. He definitely needs to learn how to do it to reduce the costs. I'm pretty sure he can do now after what we went through the last few days.

Just wait 'til you all see the proud, embarrassing post that's sure to follow my first solo oil change!

I've learned at the feet of the master...

* Don't skimp on the filter

* Don't skimp on the oil

* Check the drained oil for metal sparkles/sea monkeys/wayward washers, etc.

* Run an oily finger around the new filter's O-ring before attaching 

* Finger-tight on the filter

* Replace the drain plug -- it's not decorative 

* Replace the filler cap -- see above

* Check the dipstick 

* Note the mileage

Am I missing anything?

You missed the VapoRub...Vick's, that is. 

You have been taking notes, I'm very proud of you Cory. Pretty soon you'll cast me aside.

Bob: IM S6 posted:

You missed the VapoRub...Vick's, that is. 

Oh, yes! 

Apply liberally to the back of the head...

The hottest SEX I ever had was when I grabbed the wrong jar in the dark. Obviously it wasn't the Vaseline one. We both ran to the shower holding our crotches within a few minutes.........Bruce

Good argument for keeping the lights on when you have sex. 

"Apply liberally to the back of the head..."

Hey......It worked for "Alfalfa"!

To add to this (and I'll leave the Vaporub alone, as Bob's already mentioned it this morning. I guess we've found your thing, though- kind of like Lane's brass thingie... I never get tired of mentioning it, Lane!)- if your filter mounts upright, fill it up before installing, as there's then less time with no oil pressure. If it mounts sideways, it's surprising how much you can pour in it and still get it spun on without spilling anything. My 4Runner's oil filter installs from underneath (an extra bend between the wrist and elbow would really come in handy!) at a slight downward angle (15? degrees) and I fill it about 2/3 full and then install the thing. Once you get it sideways, just keep it spinning 'till the gasket touches, and then 3/4 turn more.

And don't forget- the oil drain plug first! and then the oil. The mechanic at a friend's shop was known for realizing the drain plug wasn't in part way through pouring the first quart. It's amazing how long it takes for oil to hit the sump bottom, and how often Gordo actually got it in without spilling a drop. I still hear Don (RIP) yelling "Gord! drain plug!" and Gord yelling "sh*t!". Don would be pissed if oil ended up on the floor... 

We went through every one of those things. We laughed about pouring the oil in only to watch it pour out of the bottom or the engine. We discussed putting in the drain plug to prevent that problem. Cory's filter is installed sideways so we pulled the coil wife and turned the engine over to get pressure before firing her up. I wasn't up for an attempt to fill the filter and then spin it on before the oil poured out. I was covered with oil as it was. Just try getting motor oil off of your prescription eye wear. Driving home was like driving in the fog.

Funny, we hit every one of your items, and then some.

"Funny, we hit every one of your items, and then some."

Strange how it's only funny if you've been there! Good stuff guys.

PS- dishwasing liquid should wash oil off glasses, shouldn't it? It's what I use to clean up with. I remember once upon a time reading on the Samba a guy who used to work in some chemical plant said that dishwash soap was very similar (chemically) to hand cleaner, and I've always found it worked great.

PS- You were talking about oil changes being expensive, Paul- they're even more so when you have to do it twice..

Yeah, Dawn is what everyone uses, but even it left some residue on my glasses. When I got home I used "Wipe'n Clear" lens wipes. They come individually wrapped for cleaning eye glasses.

PaulEllis posted:

You have been taking notes, I'm very proud of you Cory. Pretty soon you'll cast me aside.

Never, Paul!

If we should ever part, who will be there to constantly shine the flashlight on your wrist instead of the work?

I want it to be me.

Cory McCloskey posted:

PaulEllis posted:

You have been taking notes, I'm very proud of you Cory. Pretty soon you'll cast me aside.

Never, Paul!

If we should ever part, who will be there to constantly shine the flashlight on your wrist instead of the work?

I want it to be me.

Ok, that's very funny! Gotta go do some chores now...

I often wonder if Dawn was used for oil spills because they gave it to them or because it was truly the better product

OK, you got me scared now.  Not sure what the oil capacity is on my 2332, but the case is supposed to be "bigger" in some dimension.  I think I put 3+ qts in there when changing. I am not a habitual high revver, unless you consider 5,000 high. I do enjoy the spirited run, and so far have never seen an oil light flicker. Might have touched 6 grand once or twice.  Usually live between 2500 and 4500. So, am I at risk here??

External full flow filter, of course, mounted sideways.  Never have put oil in it prior to installing new.  But ALWAYS check the level after running the engine a bit to be sure all is up to  snuff. Doing a dead crank for a few secs prior to firing up after a change sounds like good practice, and no biggie to do.

Dawn... I use it after cleaning hands with "Goop" takes away any remaining grease residue.

Just my opinion, but with a 2332, I'd defiantly have more than three quarts of oil. Remember oil also cools your engine to some extent. I just put a sump on my little 1914 because I couldn't stand the thought of 2 and 2/3 quarts of oil. With an engine your size, I'd go 4 quarts, then the filter and ad an external cooler. Pretty soon you're at 8 quarts. 

El Frazoo posted:

OK, you got me scared now.  Not sure what the oil capacity is on my 2332, but the case is supposed to be "bigger" in some dimension.  I think I put 3+ qts in there when changing. I am not a habitual high revver, unless you consider 5,000 high. I do enjoy the spirited run, and so far have never seen an oil light flicker. Might have touched 6 grand once or twice.  Usually live between 2500 and 4500. So, am I at risk here??

External full flow filter, of course, mounted sideways.  Never have put oil in it prior to installing new.  But ALWAYS check the level after running the engine a bit to be sure all is up to  snuff. Doing a dead crank for a few secs prior to firing up after a change sounds like good practice, and no biggie to do.

Or, do what I plan to do, Frazoo.  Just keep pouring it in until the neck of the filler tube is full.  Then, let it settle for a minute or two and top it off. I like that dipstick to be wet all the way up to my finger.

But I'm new here. Prolly should consider the opinions of the veterans.

 

FWIW, I had an "extended thinline sump" on my CB 2054 at the recommendation of Buckwheat. It wasn't the lowest point and was not a clearance issue.

>

I had the same thing on my CB 2110 and it worked fine

*cough*

dry-sump

*cough*

@Cory McCloskey, it is a bad idea to overfill (if you weren't joking). The crank whips up a lot of air in the oil.

El Frazoo posted:

 

...what's the real deal with these extra sump thingies??  To me, they seem sorta superfluous and will add a significant degree of danger on account of hanging down so far.  You whack that thing on a stone or angled driveway, and you will have another very "major leak" is what I'm thinking...

 

Mr. Frazoo, there's very little need to worry that you will scrape an extended sump, crack it, and dump all of your oil.

With most extractor exhausts I've seen (think A1 Sidewinder), the pipes will scrape first, saving your sump.

But even on cars like mine, with more traditional exhausts (mine's a Vintage Speed), the sump still won't scrape, break, and dump your oil.

The bolts holding the drain plate hang down lower than the sump. It's those bolts that will scrape, break, and dump all of your oil. So you see, there's nothing to worry about.

 

GI've got a 2,110 with a CB 1-1/2 quart "deep sump" which isn't all THAT deep, maybe 2".  I've never had any trouble with it clearing stuff and my car sits as low as most.  I run a pair of those spiffy orange silicone sump gaskets from Aircooled and I like 'em.  Running an external filter and cooler, so it takes all of 5 quarts to fill everything and then I usually run about 1/2 way between marks on the dipstick - it seems to gravitate to that level, anyway.

Kelly:  the nice thing about a deep sump if you're carving turns is that a prolonged curve can force most of your sump oil out the pushrod tubes to the rockers on the outside of the curve, thereby starving the oil pump pickup.  Running a deep sump puts at least 1-1/2 quarts down at the pickup at all times so your pump never runs out of oil, even on very hard cornering (like cloverleafs).

Of course,  Dr. Stan's dry sump *cough* never runs out of oil, evah.  That's one of the benefits of it.  He gets that whirlwind of oil splatter going on in there from whatever's running out past the bearings and from his hi-tech, impinged oil squirtahs.  All good stuff!

My F250 diesel forum recommended changing BOTH fuel filters (coarse and fine) with every oil change.  Total cost of 16 quarts of Rotalla oil (from Walmart), plus three filters from NAPA (all WIX filters) was a shade over $300 and that's just for the parts.  quickly learned that the fine fuel filter got changed every 6K, the coarse fuel filter got changed almost never (it filtered stuff the size of pebbles, I swear), and if I cozied up to the NAPA guy for a transport discount I could get the oil filter for 50% off.  All that got me down to about $160 per oil change.  I consider oil changes on the Speedster to be a bargain.

Cory:  A lot of us use WIX oil filters because they're really good (WAY better than FRAM).  Wix makes all the oil filters for the NAPA Gold line so if your car uses a typical "Ford" style spin on, you can get a NAPA Gold 1515 and run with the Big Dogs.  Ask Paul if you have a full flow setup and if it has a pressure limiter (usually set to 125 pounds max).  If it does, get the NAPA Gold 1515.  If it doesn't have the pressure limiter, get the NAPA Gold 1515R, which has a stronger case and can handle the pressure generated by the oil pump with thick (cold) oil at cold start-up.

gn

 

I guess we need to remember that the ride height on all of our cars is set differently and that, of course, has a lot to do with how much clearance we have.

On my new engine build (two years ago) the builder installed a 'deep' sump. I can't remember the brand, but it held two quarts and extended down three inches. I dinged it a few times, but then one otherwise sunny afternoon in the wine country, I found a manhole cover with my name on it. It took out the head on one of the drain plate bolts and there was oil everywhere. I measured the ground clearance at about three inches.

Determined that this wouldn't happen again, I installed a CB 'slimline' sump (which extends down about two inches) and then had the torsion bars adjusted to add another two inches of clearance. The stance isn't really where I want it now, but I haven't hit anything since. This is probably because the clearance under the front sway bar is about five inches, and in back I now have about six.

 

Michael McKelvey posted:

@Cory McCloskey, it is a bad idea to overfill (if you weren't joking). The crank whips up a lot of air in the oil.

 Thanks, Michael, but I was joking.  Believe me, though -- with my inexperience, it's hard to tell! 

 I'm getting there!