Phoney Fuchs

I've been eying these at CIP1 - they claim 5" backspacing on a 5.5" wheel. (They have different backspacing ones).

ACC-C10-6648 - 911 STYLE 5 SPOKE ALUMINUM WHEEL - BLACK WITH POLISHED SPOKES - 5.5 INCH WIDE X 15 INCH DIA. - 5X130MM BOLT PATTERN (5 INCH BACKSPACE) - CENTER CAP AND HARDWARE SOLD SEPARATELY $99.99 each.

I'd probably go with the fully polished ones though-

ACC-C10-6649 - 911 STYLE 5 SPOKE ALUMINUM WHEEL - FULLY POLISHED - 5.5 INCH WIDE X 15 INCH DIA. - 5X130MM BOLT PATTERN (5 INCH BACKSPACE) - CENTER CAP AND HARDWARE SOLD SEPARATELY - SOLD EACH Price: USD $149.99 30% Off: USD $104.99

 Believe MUSBJIM has the traditional ones on his VS.

I think one of the downsides to the replica Fuchs is they weigh a lot more than the originals. Other than that they are probably good wheels.

I'm looking at the wide 5 version. 4.5's on the front (3.5" backspace) 5.5's on the back (4.0" backspace). They are sourced from John Brown Wheels in England. The size is the same as my Mangels and the back spacing is close.

I think Jim's are EMPI but I might be wrong.

Jimmy V.:

I'm sure you are correct re: the weight, but my Mangels are heavy as well. I'm considering this for aesthetics as I don't run my car real hard or autocross it.

I will keep the Mangels and swap between the different sets.

As Jimmy V said, the cast replicas are heavier (about 4 lbs) than originals (but yes, still noticeably lighter than steel wheels), and Musbjim's, although they are replicas, are painted/detailed like originals and do look really great. Original Fuchs are nice, but it may take a little while to find a set in the widths you want, will probably cost you at least twice what the aftermarket copies will run (and you'll still have to detail them) but they are light.

Boy, are they light. Once you've held 1...

And if you hit a curb hard enough to crack the rim on a cast wheel it's done. A Fuchs wheel, being forged, can be fixed, so there's that too.  Mind you, the cast wheels are cheap enough that it's not that big a deal. Al

my car is already a replica....so are the wheels.....i'm not sure who makes them....so who cares if they are phony fuchs....they make the car and just say PORSCHE...it's not a 911 and never was meant to be a race car....just my opinion

Great looking car JNCSPYDER!!!

thanx bob!

Car looks great @jncspyder, copies and all!  Got a first name?

thanx ALB    call me jim....not "ishmael"    haa! 

Panhandle Bob posted:

Great looking car JNCSPYDER!!!

Ditto.  Was that photo taken at Zuma?  I am building a coupe.  Can I talk you into taking a photo of the door window frames as they fit in the body?  Mine have a gap that I think may be too large.

yes todd...that's westward beach pt dume ZUMA...a iconic spot for car photos...i'll text you about photos

Panhandle Bob posted:

I think Jim's are EMPI but I might be wrong.

Bob, is correct. Mine are Empi fakes. At the time Kirk built my car (2015), these wheels were only $20/ea. more than the chrome Mangels (?). They are 5mm x 130mm bolt pattern (Porsche), 5.5" wide with 4.5" back-spacing. @Panhandle Bob @WOLFGANG

This is how they came in the box...

  ...and after I had them stripped and painted to replicate Porsche paint scheme.

Every time I see your car I'm knocked out by it. Are you running 2 1/2" drop spindles?

Here is my car/project as it sits now, covered in MDF dust.

Bob, I installed 2.5" drop spindles. The 4.5" wheel backspacing allowed a great fit on the rear (1/2" wheel well clearance) but on the front, the backspacing had the wheels tucked into the wheel well.

Gave it a narrowed beam appearance. Not the look I was going for, so I put 1.75" spacers on front to push the wheels out further. This changed the steering geometry a bit so I have a bit more understeer. No problem since I don't race or track my car. @Panhandle Bob

 Jim:

Do you have adjustable spring plates on the rear as well?

Bob, yes I do, as shown in the pic....

I lowered the adjustment just until I had a slight negative camber. Hasn't really affected my tire wear in any significant manner. I am really pleased with the overall stance, lower and more aggressive looking. @Panhandle Bob

These are the polished version of the Empi replica Fuchs.  They are VERY nice and even have the little heart. 

If the wheel is true then it matters not what company made it of course if the weight and the offset is to your satisfaction. Just saying. 

MusbJim posted:

Bob, I installed 2.5" drop spindles. The 4.5" wheel backspacing allowed a great fit on the rear (1/2" wheel well clearance) but on the front, the backspacing had the wheels tucked into the wheel well.

Gave it a narrowed beam appearance. Not the look I was going for, so I put 1.75" spacers on front to push the wheels out further. This changed the steering geometry a bit so I have a bit more understeer. No problem since I don't race or track my car. @Panhandle Bob

Interesting.  I'm guessing that because you had the car built, Kirk put Porsche hubs on the front and rear.  The Black car I posted pictures of, had 4 bolt spindles and drums and used an adapter plate on all 4 wheels that was approximately 1.25". 

@MUSBJIM

Are those the Empi adjustable spring plates? Kaddie Shack has their own. I also am looking at Atomwerks which appear to be the best quality.

I like the adjustability feature of those. Seems like all our pan based cars have a tendency to sit slightly lower on the drivers side as the torsion bars (unless replaced in the last few years) allow for some sag, as there was always a driver, but not necessarily a passenger over the last 50 -60 years.

@Panhandle Bob- Look up Atomworks in the feedback thread on the Samba before spending any money- you may not like what you read.

Sway-a-way spring plates work well. They are *REALLY* heavy duty.  That is what I installed on my car a few years back. 

Looks like the Empi Fuchs are actually - no very near 5" backspacing/offster 45mm.

EMPI Part Number: 9680-4 https://www.jbugs.com/product/9680-4.html

Diameter - 15"
Width - 5.5"
Offset (ET) - 45mm
Backspacing - 4 15/16"
Lug Pattern (PCD) - 5x130
Lug Seat - Ball
Weight - 15.5lbs

Musbjim's speedster is still one of my favourites ! Love the stance and the Fuchs style wheels.

Panhandle Bob posted:

@MUSBJIM

Are those the Empi adjustable spring plates? Kaddie Shack has their own. I also am looking at Atomwerks which appear to be the best quality.

I like the adjustability feature of those. Seems like all our pan based cars have a tendency to sit slightly lower on the drivers side as the torsion bars (unless replaced in the last few years) allow for some sag, as there was always a driver, but not necessarily a passenger over the last 50 -60 years.

What's different about the Kaddie shack adjustable spring plates? I'm not trying to be difficult- I just don't see any difference. And if the driver's side is sagging slightly, adjust the torsion bar. No money spent and no unnecessary weight added. And if the wheel/tire combo is close to the spring plate that adjuster block is gonna be in the way. Al

Time to go back to bed now...

Al hates spring plates. I get it, but for cruising (the way 95% of us use ‘em), the weight doesn’t matter, and the adjustability is sooooo nice. Regarding Atom-Werks’ reputation— the linked thread was the classic TheSamba pile-on beat-down. It was pretty ridiculous.

Bob, you’ve struggled with the wide 5 conversation for years, and are now looking at Fuchs. If you want Fuchs, DON’T covert to wide-5, because the wide-5 fake Fuchs don’t look at all like Fuchs. The 5x130 EMPI Fuch is a great looking wheel, and the EMPI wide-5 torque-thrust(ish) copies look OK— but the wide-5 Fuchs look... off to me. If I wanted wide-5, I’d get Greg’s (Vintage) aluminum wheels. If I wanted Fuchs, I’d get 5x130 brakes, but this is just my aesthetic sensibility— your mileage may vary.  

Regardless, the easiest 4 to 5 lug conversion you’ll ever do is to get to 5x130. Troy’s suggestion of a simple adapter plate gets you there without touching your front brakes. If you don’t like that, you can buy EMPI front hubs with the right drilling and just bolt the wheels on. The front is as easy as it could possibly be. The back isn't much more complicated. New brake drums and you are there.  

I have wide five drums on the rear and there is no room for the addition of an adapter plate without causing the wheels to rub in the wells.

I'm abandoning the Fuchs idea and just converting to wide five brakes on the front, dropping the car a couple of inches and buying some drum skins that I'll run with my Mangels. I'll probably swap out tires as well, it's past time.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Stan you are correct. I've messed with these ideas off and on for years. I am stubborn and want to do as much stuff myself as I can, and yet I'm no wrench. I hesitate and spend a lot of time looking at each option.

I also find my Speedster offers a lot of attractive options for wheels tires, paint, drive train etc., and a big part of the pleasure of ownership is re-imagining the car...often.

Sometimes I must appear to be a like a squirrel caught in traffic.

Thanks again for the ideas, encouragement and feedback.

Another Fuchs repro option is Maxilite. They are TUV approved, which has very high standards according to the UK crowd. Stoddards and Sierra Madre sell them, although I got mine from an instagram connection for slightly below their prices. I am going with 16x6 Maxilites al the way around. Excited about the tire selection at the 16" level.

Brian

I think those have a better reputation for trueness.

I use a LOT of Fuchs clones and customs on the 904, and a few on the 356/550.  

Top choice is taking a 16" OE Fuchs, machining the hoop off, drill and face bolt holes around the permieter and use BBS 3 pcs wheel halves.  Make any size you want, lightest possible outcome and super strong, BUT figure $7K+ to do a set, even more if you font have your own lathe/mill.

Braids and Fikse ZF I'd say are tied for the next best, light, forged, TUV/DOT approved but figure $4-6K a set. Fikse are a blind 3pc and a little lighter.

Linea Corsa Fox wheels seems to be OK, heavy but well made.  Just putting some on the street and so far I've been happy-ish.  A little more out of balance than the aforementioned but round.  About 1/2 the price of the above.

Euromeisters were OK but after seeing some 911 track guys breaking them we moved away from them.  No issues for us to date, but there are better wheels for just slightly more money.

The EMPIs are the heaviest and have been the most out of balance, but round unlike so many Chinese knock-offs these days.  I wouldn't use them for a track car but I do have them on some 300hp 550/356  builds and they've proven to be a good wheel, especially for the money.  Early on we had some seriously out of balance wide five Fuchs from them (4-5oz), but the last set we used seemed OK.  The 5x130 pattern version seemed to be better.

Just my $0.02

Well, it is good to have someone jog your memory, now I remember why we passed on those wheels, and BTW I could not have said it better myself, thanks Carey.   

This is the look!

Excellent!

no comment

Oh, C’mon ....comment

RacerX posted:

This is the look!

Dude, you're driving my version of a coupe!!!  @RacerX