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@chines1, I'm moving this into its own topic to avoid too much thread drift on @DannyP's Speeduino thread. I'm curious if you've heard of anyone who's trying to make more than stock Subaru power using a piggyback ECU or by reflashing the ECU.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, there were several good options around 20 years ago, but I just did a search and it looks like the GReady E-manage is the only one to survive. The obvious advantage is that you keep all of the good behavior built into the stock ECU and can add fuel/spark where you want it.

I know some stock ECUs can be reflashed and that would eliminate the need for a piggyback. Perhaps that's why there seems to be little market for them? I'm firmly stuck on Type 1, but I am curious.

Here's a link to the GReady product: https://www.nengun.com/greddy/e-manage-ultimate

Thanks for all of the great insight you provide to this forum. It's very much appreciated!

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We've switched harness converters in the last year and now have a shop that not only does the wiring, but understands the ECU a lot more and can manipulate things a bit better.  I've reached out to them with some questions related to performance and will circle back if they have anything interesting to say.  

Since there aren't many automatic Suby conversions out there, but I had the need to do a few, we've also had my electrical engineer working with them on sorting and trying to retain as many of the features of the trans controller as possible.  While that may seem rather simple, it actually wound up being fairly complex (at least in my head).  Surprising how much is controlled by the trans controller...  even some systems that are controlled elsewhere but then switched over to the trans controller.  I now that want anything we were talking about, but I just wanted to share that we've been digging into this wiring and how it works and what is possible for quite some time.  We've been able to modify the target RPM at cold start and idle, however I do not know exactly how it was done.  I believe it was done as a simple change to target speed and not as actual modification to either timing or fuel tables.

Anyway, back to piggyback.  It has been my experience that there is a TON for the turbos and almost nothing for the NA cars.  In addition, the early turbos (pre-04 and maybe  more) can easily be manipulated with open source and ecuflash software.  We had a local tuner, who was headhunted and subsequently moved to TX to work for Cobb, who used to do all of my STi tuning and we had him dig into a few of the NA ECUs with no real luck in manipulation, other than turning off a few lights.

The other issue is that the EPA has refined it's laws in the last few years and targeted companies making piggyback and  other ECU related modification devices, and stepped up fines for said items, so that particular sector seems to be moving backwards, or maybe just underground.

@chines1 posted:


The other issue is that the EPA has refined it's laws in the last few years and targeted companies making piggyback and  other ECU related modification devices, and stepped up fines for said items, so that particular sector seems to be moving backwards, or maybe just underground.

I suspected that might be the reason why there were so few vendors out there. Japan seems to be making them still, but I didn't see any online presence in the US. Thanks!

Here's a story.

$18,000 Worth Of Clean Air: EPA Fines Tuner PFI Speed

"... it was noted that 37 Hondata S300 units were ordered and shipped through PFI's digital storefront, and the EPA was not pleased. If you're not Honda tuning-savvy, the S300 is Hondata's add-in module which is able to be installed inside of Honda's OBD1 ECU, most often found in early-90s Civics and Integras. The device allows the end-user to plug in a laptop and using Hondata's user-friendly software, make real-time changes to fuel trim and timing, as well as setting various engine protection parameters, datalogging, and much more - essentially modernizing the rather limited OBD1 computer. Selling or purchasing an S300 isn't illegal, however, installing it on a vehicle that travels on public roads, is in fact a violation."

=

And another: "The EPA hit big-name shops and suppliers with more than $4.96 million in fines and payments in FY 2021 alone."

Last edited by edsnova

There are many areas of our lives where regulators have decided to modify regulations which while supposedly to administer existing laws in fact changes the law and causing heritage or historical practices to be made effectively unlawful in all areas.  Such overreach requires push back in all areas of life. I have examples that have gone all the way up the courts and where those cases were won, causing those areas to be preserved but it continues on ....

What's most interesting to me is that, in the context of what we on this board do, any kind of "reflash" tends to be a step up in cleanliness from the baseline—which is still a carb'd, 009-fired 2 liter Type 1 VW engine running pig rich.

We should be lauded for (as in my example) replacing a Type-1 with a Subaru three decades newer. Danny and @Michael Pickett should be feted by their local EPA bureaucrats for so improving the emissions of their cars by use of modern technologies.

But—as someone else observed a while back—federal laws will not likely take us into account, as we're a tiny subculture of a tiny subculture.

@DannyP I've no idea what you meant by your above post. Sorry.

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