Plus sizing tires/rims on a CMC wide body

Check out Gordon N's CMC Calif - you can't beat the look of Fuchs alloy wheels and replicas are reasonable (OEM not so unless you get lucky).  You have the original CMC optional wheels - which now 30 years later look a little dated.  You need to consider off-set/backspacing along with rim size/with and tire size/profile.  I think Gordon's look just right (believe they are OEM Fuch$).  You can always add spacers to push wheels out a bit - but will need longer bolts/studs. Of course, for the 5 bolt Porsche pattern wheels, you'll need new/redrilled rotors and drums.

Yes, that was the problem... I felt the rims looked cool in the 80's but look outdated now.

Thank you for the response and advice... would you be able to walk me through investigating and buying the new/redrilled rotors and drums you referenced? Perhaps a website link?   Or if I find rims that I like that are 4 lug.. is no action best?  I am new to this and could really use the coddling until I gain some experience and knowledge.  I have included a photo of the existing set up.

CIP1 has a wide range of fake 5 bolt 5x130mm Fuchs and they state the offset.  Available in 15, 16 and 17" diameters. They also have rotors and drums drilled for the Porsche pattern.  You still have drums on the front - I would buy a kit to convert front to discs (going with the 5 bolt Porsche pattern) and just purchase redrilled rear drums (unless you want to go with discs in back - with emergency brakes).  80% of braking is in front so best to start there - but of course, 70% of the weight is on the rear. I'd also look at adding front anti-sway bar (requires mod to bumper bracket) along with one in the rear.

Disc brake example - https://www2.cip1.com/ProductD...Code=ACC-C10-4121-BO

Wheel example - https://www2.cip1.com/ProductD...uctCode=C32%2DFU552C

There aren't many alloy 4 bolt VW wheels available wider than 5.5" - I'm guessing you'd want 6" or even 7" wide (in rear).  

Ask your dad if he still has the fiberglass splash fender panel that fits on either side to hide the bumper bracket (provides strength and protection too).

Is something like this a bad idea?

https://www.ezaccessory.com/2_...ion_Adapter_s/75.htm

OverKILLLL Bob posted:

Is something like this a bad idea?

 

https://www.ezaccessory.com/2_...ion_Adapter_s/75.htm

As long as they are Billet aluminum, ebay ahs tons of them and the cost is less too 

Hi Alan!  Thanks for weighing in.  Is there a link to a set of adapters that you are positive would work with my existing set up?  I will want to eventually make the disc brake, drum & rotor mods suggested above. In reality though I live in a small town and would be looking to cruise at 25 mph, no highway driving... a car for getting ice cream and fun.  So I was hoping to change the rims to something I like and then dump money into all the mods once I have the time.

To explain why it seems I am doing things out of order... is that the original rims and tires look new but are well over 30 years in age.  I have been strongly advised to not drive on them as the tires insides are most likely unhealthy... so I don't want to buy new tires for rims I wont keep... but can't drive without doing so.  So I am looking to get it on the road soon with new tires and rims now (or at least soon).

The adapters seemed like a good way to be able to keep the rims and tires once I make all the changes that wolfgang suggested.

If this doesnt make sense please let me know, perhaps driving this summer may not be an option.

Thanks! 

Could Plastidip your existing wheels, add new tires and maybe 3/8-1/2" spacers to fill the wheel well a bit better.  I have seen those wheels with Empi 2 or 3 spoke spinners too for a nostalgic look ($75).

I have 15 X 7 Fuchs rims on the front of my Fiberfab/CMC Californian Speedster with 205/50/15 tires. The rears are 15X8 Fuchs with 225/50/15 tires. I had to use spacers to get the look I wanted and have no issue with the function and drivability of the car. I found I have to use a 1/4" more spacer on the passenger side to get the same tire to fender spacing. I have been told the CMC molds were not symmetrical from side to side in the rear. Good luck getting you Speedy on the road.

Your ride looks phenomenal!!! What sized spacer did you end up using?  Also do you happen to know what the ET/offset of your Fuchs is?

I am not sure of the exact offset of the wheels. The rears use one 1/4" spacer on drivers side and two 1/4" spacers on the passenger side. The fronts don't use any spacers. Sorry I cant be of more help. I will measure the back spacing of my wheels the next time I take them off. 

Alan Merklin posted:

OverKILLLL Bob posted:

Is something like this a bad idea?

 

https://www.ezaccessory.com/2_...ion_Adapter_s/75.htm

As long as they are Billet aluminum, ebay ahs tons of them and the cost is less too 

 

Alan, these guys are a really inexpensive source of lug nuts I mean even less expensive than Empi's

BTW, what I really find cool is that you can get adapters with hub centric adapters or one piece ones to help to stabilize your wheel and get the balancing much more exact which translates to a smoother ride.   A hub centric wheel is king for balancing.   Custom wheels are always fitted with hub centric rings to help with balancing.  The hub and the wheel locks in perfectly wth no movement with them installed. 

Hey, Bob.  I'm the guy with the white Speedster with Fuchs wheels up above.  I have a set of original Fuchs rims from a 1989 Porsche 911.

My rims are 16" x 6" in the front with 205/50 tires.  The rears used to be 16" X 7" with 225/50 tires, but for ease of rotating them I swapped for a pair of 16" X 6" back there, too, with the same 205/50 tires.  With the 225's on the rear, the track handling was phenomenal, but I didn't get much opportunity to use all that handling on the street and I couldn't rotate beyond left/right/front swaps.

Since you have an early 70's pan I assume it is a full IRS suspension, so the things you have to watch out for are:  Rubbing the inside of the tire against the spring plates as the wheel gets wider, and rubbing the outside top edge of the tire against the inside of the body as it flows down to the fender lip (but mostly if the car has been really lowered).  The swing arm suspension allows a little more tire back there towards the outside because the tops of the wheels turn in as the suspension is lowered.

I am using 1-1/4" spacer/adapters all around to take me from the VW 4-bolt hub (4 X 130) to a 5-bolt Porsche pattern (5 X 130) and that spacing gets the rears out to fill the wheel well nicely.  The fronts could use another 1/4" - 1/2" more, but honestly I'm happy with what I have.  I got mine from Pelican Parts over a decade ago, they are billet T-60 aluminum and very well made but cost me $125 per wheel.  I've seen others on eBay lately, just as nice for a lot less money, but do not get cast adapters.  They are much weaker than billet aluminum and you want T-60 or 6060 aluminum or harder.

Original polished-spoke Fuchs in show shape will now run you anywhere from $800 to $1,600 EACH    although I sometimes see some a tad cheaper on eBay.  Other custom wheels for Porsche are much cheaper and there are TONS of them with a Chevy 5-bolt pattern for real short money, comparatively, so you might look for Chevy pattern rims that look cool and go in that direction - it just means buying a different adapter.

Some people have gone to 17" rims which fill the wheel well very nicely (like they were made for it) but they have to run 40-series tires in order not to rub the underside of the body.

So that's it.  The first step is to find a wheel design that you like, then see what sizes (diameter, width, set-back and dish dimensions) it comes in, what bolt pattern they offer, then match an adapter to it and your 4-bolt hubs.  When you get that far, it's time to do the math and see if various combinations will fit your space between the spring plates and the body/fender lip versus the spacing of the rear hubs and adapter facing surface (you gotta pull the current wheels and get in their with a measuring tape and framing square and just figure it all out).  Sounds complicated, but it isn't.  Just takes a few minutes to crank through it and make sure everything is going to fit.

If you're planning on running the car real low, then going to 40-series rubber cures a lot of ills, and you'll find that 16" rims  will fit better (but you might just squeeze 17's in there).

Hope this isn't too confusing.  gn

One of my past projects I did  the CMC gold wheels were like new and the chrome was perfect,  I painted the gold centers with a darker grey and with a black speedster it looked updated for the $15.  VW 4 bolt to GM 5 bolt will allow for an endless wheel choice at reasonable money.

My CMC widebody came with 18x8" Boyds Junkyard Dogs in a 5-bolt Chevy pattern with 255/35ZR18 meats installed by the previous owner. They fill the wheel wells, and are one of the things I loved about the car when I first saw it. They have adapters which push the wheels outboard about 3/4". The rears rub the fenders lightly when I corner really hard, so one of the things on my to-do list is upgrading the rotors to 5-bolt Chevy pattern, eliminating the spacers.

The rear wheel well lip on the CMC is about 7/8" you can removed 1/2 " with a belt sander .

Hi Bob! I'm running 15 x 7 and 15 x 8 Fuchs replicas with 205-50-15's up front and 225-50-15's out back on CIP1 VW-Porsche adaptors on my CMC. I have an adjustable front beam with drop spindles and adjustable rear spring plates. Car is lowered aggressively with absolutely no rubbing issues at any speed on any roads. Just make sure everything is torqued correctly before you hit the road!

Wow!  You guys rock!  All these rides look awesome.  @jesse postill , do you mind me asking where you got the replica fuchs?  I am looking all over, but also trying to get an idea of what the members here in SOC think are decent.  I can not afford real fuchs, and this speedster is already not period correct as it stands...  so I am free to do whatever I want, I suppose.

Hi Bob, my wheels are made by American Eagle, and I'm not sure if they are in business anymore. As the other guys have mentioned there are quite a few companies producing these replica wheels in just about any width and diameter you can dream up; just google replica Fuchs. Pelican Parts sells a nice quality Fuchs rep. As far as what's period correct there are no rules, as you can see on this forum. If you like a certain look, you can be sure someone else does too! This is the funnest part about personalizing your ride. I think replica Fuchs on a replica speedster is OK. 

Thanks Jesse! I will begin the search for dished replica Fuchs... I am sure they exist.

I appreciate the help from this forum.  You guys are all awesome!

OverKILLLL Bob posted:

Wow!  You guys rock!  All these rides look awesome.  @jesse postill , do you mind me asking where you got the replica fuchs?  I am looking all over, but also trying to get an idea of what the members here in SOC think are decent.  I can not afford real fuchs, and this speedster is already not period correct as it stands...  so I am free to do whatever I want, I suppose.

Remember that your car has no P factory vin # and (in the eyes of a lot of P owners) is not even close to being part of the fold (even if you've gone so far as to mimic a particular factory build, complete with a 356 or 912 engine, swingaxle and drum brakes), so don't get hung up on whether something is or isn't period correct (unless that's the look you're aiming for). If your car looks good we'll all like it too, as will everyone who sees it on the street. Every time you put gas in it, park it, and just drive it people will look (more like ogle lustfully), comment and want to ask questions!

What makes our cars so interesting is how each owner has approached a particular "challenge" or modification. Most of the time there is no right or wrong (although some of us will beg to differ when it comes to the SEMA build Speedster of a few years ago and it's Eastern European bordello themed interior. I'd post pics but they hurt my eyes so!). And yeah, these things look bitchin' with Fuchs wheels, and it doesn't matter whether they're real or "just" copies.

@jesse postill- Your car looks great!

And Bob- as Jesse said, replica Fuchs on a replica Speedster is kind of a natural, don't you think?

Hope this helps. Al

PS- If you can't quite find what you're looking for in wheel widths (and backspacing/    there are shops that can custom widen wheels. It's not cheap, but sometimes that's what it may take to get exactly what you want. I took a pair of 15x6" Fuchs and got them widened 1" to the inside (copying the 1967 911R wheel) to fit as much tire as possible inside my straight fendered Speedster- I have 195's with 7" rims on the back with 1/8" clearance at the spring plate. The goal is to (1 day) re-work the fenders a little to get 205's or 215's under there. 

Were Fuchs ever an option on a Speedster back in the day?? 

Jack Crosby posted:

Were Fuchs ever an option on a Speedster back in the day?? 

No pre A, A or B 356's ever had the 5x130mm bolt pattern (that didn't start until the C series cars in '62 or '63, which is when the first disc brakes showed up as well) and the wheels themselves were developed in the early '60s and first mounted on 911's in '67(?).

A lot of 15" Fuchs info on this Samba thread-

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/fo...rder=asc&start=0

ALB posted:

OverKILLLL Bob posted:

Wow!  You guys rock!  All these rides look awesome.  @jesse postill , do you mind me asking where you got the replica fuchs?  I am looking all over, but also trying to get an idea of what the members here in SOC think are decent.  I can not afford real fuchs, and this speedster is already not period correct as it stands...  so I am free to do whatever I want, I suppose.

Remember that your car has no P factory vin # and (in the eyes of a lot of P owners) is not even close to being part of the fold (even if you've gone so far as to mimic a particular factory build, complete with a 356 or 912 engine, swingaxle and drum brakes), so don't get hung up on whether something is or isn't period correct (unless that's the look you're aiming for). If your car looks good we'll all like it too, as will everyone who sees it on the street. Every time you put gas in it, park it, and just drive it people will look (more like ogle lustfully), comment and want to ask questions!

What makes our cars so interesting is how each owner has approached a particular "challenge" or modification. Most of the time there is no right or wrong (although some of us will beg to differ when it comes to the SEMA build Speedster of a few years ago and it's Eastern European bordello themed interior. I'd post pics but they hurt my eyes so!). And yeah, these things look bitchin' with Fuchs wheels, and it doesn't matter whether they're real or "just" copies.

@jesse postill- Your car looks great!

And Bob- as Jesse said, replica Fuchs on a replica Speedster is kind of a natural, don't you think?

Hope this helps. Al

PS- If you can't quite find what you're looking for in wheel widths (and backspacing/  &nbsp there are shops that can custom widen wheels. It's not cheap, but sometimes that's what it may take to get exactly what you want. I took a pair of 15x6" Fuchs and got them widened 1" to the inside (copying the 1967 911R wheel) to fit as much tire as possible inside my straight fendered Speedster- I have 195's with 7" rims on the back with 1/8" clearance at the spring plate. The goal is to (1 day) re-work the fenders a little to get 205's or 215's under there. 

Thank you for this...  I feel I have found the right place. 🙏

I had a 1965 911 2L that had 4.5x15" Fuchs (wish I had kept the VIN #) - it must have been an early one. - looking back I can't believe how skinny they were. The plate was found under the trunk carpet.

Actually, Jack, it is kind of humorous to me to be sitting at a semi-prestigious "Porsche" event and have some purist come up to my car, give it the once over and then comment to anyone within earshot, as if he is an authority on all things Porsche (but it is not always a "him", either); "The original 356-A never had Fuchs wheels like that.  They look just wrong."

I caught that once.  The guy looked like (I swear to God) Ichabod Crane in "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow", beaky nose, wire rim glasses and all.  I took a couple of steps closer and said;

"Yup, you're right.  Fuchs like that were never offered on a 356 back in the day."

"But then, they never had 150 horsepower and could out-handle those skinny-tired 911s back then, either.  So maybe it deserves those sinister-looking Fuchs!"

Ichabod walks off in a huff.

@Gordon Nichols i 100% concur!!

nice coupe.

@IaM-Ray   thank you sir!!

Picts ?

Hey Bob! another nice addition if you decide to go with Fuchs style wheels are the Porsche alloy wheel nuts, which will save you a ton of unsprung weight. They can be had @ Sierra Madre or Pelican Parts. Personally I love the Fuchs wheels on any of the speedsters;  wide body or stock and there's a bunch of guys here running them! 

jesse postill posted:

Hey Bob! another nice addition if you decide to go with Fuchs style wheels are the Porsche alloy wheel nuts, which will save you a ton of unsprung weight. They can be had @ Sierra Madre or Pelican Parts. Personally I love the Fuchs wheels on any of the speedsters;  wide body or stock and there's a bunch of guys here running them! 

I will go check them out!!! I appreciate it sir!

I have those and they really surprise you.  You're used to the weight of regular, steel lug nuts and when you pick up an Alloy version they weigh practically nothing.   Then you wonder if, because they're so light, "Can they take the torque of 80 ft. lbs?"

Boy.......   Can they ever!

Ouch, For $19.51 each, I'd expect them to be self-tightening.  Use a steel lug nut socket and you can really mess one up too.

https://www.stoddard.com/99918200336.html.html

Well, the “P” guys buy from Stoddard, but Pelican Parts (where I got mine) have them for half that price.  Just don’t go too cheap on them (like from eBay) because the el Cheapo versions tend to be soft and strip the threads when tightened.  $150 - 175-ish for a set of 20 sounds about right. 

The good ones will take 100 ft. lbs. of torque without stripping.    

All of the places that sell these alloy wheel nuts also sell a special alloy socket that won't damage the finish on the nuts.

+1 on Pelican Parts. They're good guys with high quality parts and fair prices. I used them for years for P car things.

Mike

@OverKILLLL Bob- This just came to me- since you have a widebody, and since wider tire choices in 15" are horrible (does anybody even make a street 225/50-15 any more?) and original 15" Fuchs prices are kind of astronomical, if you like the look of completely polished Fuchs- why not hunt down some 6 and 8" rims in 16" diameter? They look great on widebodies AND tire choices are a LOT better! They look bitchin' either fully polished or with the centers completely painted out. And they're waayyyy lighter than cast copies! _{(you regulars know I just had to get that in there! Also, look at Jesse's car above)}

@ALB that car looks great!!!! Could you provide a link or two of companies that I could consider this for?  Also you mentioned different sizes (I assume for front and back) and this leads me to wonder what offset is typical for that.  

Like these rims that look like fuchs the offsets are different.   Also, are these rims not good? They seem a fraction of the costs I am seeing out there.  Center cap is wrong though... these are rims I have been eyeballing 👀 

https://www.tirerack.com/wheel...983&autoModClar=

Al, do you still have that chart of all of the different Fuchs offered?

That'll give him an idea of what widths, dish and backset used to be offered.

And I totally agree on the bump up to 16" wheels, or even 17" wheels on a wide body Speedster.  They fit (depending on tires used) and look awesome.

I will say that, were I to build my car starting today with the current astronomical prices for original forged Fuchs, I would go with a Chevy pattern and find a wheel I like and go with it.  There are tons of Chevy-pattern wheels available (adapters, too), whereas only a handful of popular cars use the 5 X 130 Porsche pattern (the popular ones being German and mostly Porsche).

Here's a good site to start with, just search instead for Chevy wheels (scroll down a little and enter different search parameters):

https://www.roadkillcustoms.co...130mm-5x5.12-inches/

And following their link for "5 X 130 Wheels" gets you to Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=5+X...amp;ref=nb_sb_noss_2