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Hello all,

I am new to the world of Spyders and I am currently collecting all kinds of information about building one. I thought it might be interesting to post a thread here to find out what kind of type 1 engine powers your Spyders. I know there are some type 4, some watercooled and even some electric machines out there, but I am more interested in the type 1.

So what do you run? Stocker 1600cc, strocker (74/76/78/82/84 more...), big bore (88/90.5/92/94)?

Thanks.

Benoit

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Hello all,

I am new to the world of Spyders and I am currently collecting all kinds of information about building one. I thought it might be interesting to post a thread here to find out what kind of type 1 engine powers your Spyders. I know there are some type 4, some watercooled and even some electric machines out there, but I am more interested in the type 1.

So what do you run? Stocker 1600cc, strocker (74/76/78/82/84 more...), big bore (88/90.5/92/94)?

Thanks.

Benoit

Benoit,

Most all the Spyders I have been around have engines over 2 liters. Personally, I am of the opinion that the fun starts at about 120hp. My first Spyder engine was perhaps 80 hp which was insufficent for anything other than tooling about. My second engine was more like 120+ hp. Much more fun, but still not fast enough. My 3rd engine is a bit over 200 hp, and I am now thinking that 300 hp would be just about right. With 200+hp the car is pretty darned quick. By the way, upgrading the engine also calls to upgrade tires wheels transmission brakes etc etc.....

So, if I were to do it again I would start with a big engine with appropraite other parts and save doing upgrades several times. By the way, 200 hp is about the limit of traction with street tires. I am running 205's in the rear, and the car will light the tires in first extensively. Anything other than a rolling start can result in much smoke and little forward progress.

This is not to suggest we are speed crazy or really race, I just enjoy kicking the snot out of rice rockets, Vettes, Mustangs, and more conventional Porsches.....

I am running a very custom 2332 cc that cost about $10k in parts, blueprinting, and custom metal treatments. I would imagine it would cost about $15k to have a similar engine built by one of the big boys... I did this one myself and so far it has been a good answer for me.
Jim,

Thank you for your reply. So far, I'm hesitating between a 2110cc (90.5x82) and a 2275cc (94x82). I may try to build it myself, but I have no experience on hi-performance engines. I have some experience on aircraft engines. I would like a lot of low end torque. I don't plan to reach high RPM's (most likely stay below 6500rpm). I think with a good combination, good carbs and nice ported heads, I may reach 130hp with the 2110cc and may be 150hp with the 2275cc. Perhaps I am a little bit optimistic here...

My concern is cooling. I have no idea how the cooling is on a Spyder compared to a Bug, since the engine is installed differently. If Spyders usually run "hot", it might be a point to go with the 2110cc which is very reliable and runs cool. If the Spyders run usually "cool", then the 2275cc is probably not an issue.

If anybody has feedback on this, feel free to reply. Thanks.

Benoit

Benoit,
By the way you've rattled off sizes of standard strokes and bores and have a good handle on reasonable hp expectations for 2110 vs. 2275, it sounds like you've already done quite a bit of homework.

I agree with Jim, more power is more fun -- until 200 hp when you start to have more power than you can routinely have fun with.

I built my engine, a 2332. Although not nearly as highline as Jim's, it still has lots of good stuff. Like you, I had a pretty good mechanical aptitude, but had never built a hot-rod engine before and knew nothing about air cooled engines.

I learned a ton -- each time I built the engine again and again to correct a mistake (or just to open it up again to make sure I didn't actually make the mistake I thought I might have). In the end, the engine is now very reliable, it has over 10,000 miles in it's most recent configuration, and I trust it. It does require frequent tuning checks and touch-ups, but that has to be expected with any high performance engine. Most important is that when its time to GO, it does! Although, I'm sure it will rev well past 6500, I almost never do. Public roads have a certain limitation for all-out hot rodding (these cars will get to 80/90 in 3rd real quick. Where and how often are you going to be doing that?) In real life, it spends probably 90% of its running minutes below 3000 where it is perfectly happy to putt-putt around all day.

A couple of things I can advise you on at this point. First, if you think you are going to save money by building your first engine yourself, that might be a bad thought. Each mistake along the learning curve is GOING to cost more money. Second, do your research (like you are doing)to get a good handle on what you want. Then go to one reputable source (like CB Performance) and get the entire engine's build parts from them.

Going to a single source assures a good chance you will get the right parts that fit together. You'll get the same parts they would use if they built the engine for you. Nothing is more disappointing than to learn that the fancy piston rods you got on ebay are not the right length to go with the crank, or something. Now you gotta buy new rods, or a new crank. So you buy a new crank, only to find out the journals don't fit the bearings that fit the other crank. See what I mean . . . . ? And, there's nothing to prevent you from making these kind of mistakes. It's presumed if you are buying an 84mm stroker crank that you must know what you are doing, and why. So if you don't know exacly what and why, get the whole engine from a single source of matched parts.

Anyway, those are some thoughts.

Mark
Mark & Jim,

Thank you very much for the advice and sharing your experiences. This is very good information that will help me in the future for sure. Like Mark said, I have already done some homework but I feel I still have a lot to do. No problem, I've got time.

A big difference between aircraft engines and type 1... Good old Continental or Lycoming revs at 2500rpm max (on average), have huge displacement and squeeze little power per cc... compared to a type 1. And clearancing is never really an issue. That's why I'm cautious to make the jump.

If I build the engine myself, it is not really to save money but more to know what's in it and to enjoy building it along with the car (I'm planning on getting a Special Edition Kit). Otherwise, I would just get a turnkey and drive right away. But to me, driving is only 50% of the fun and it should be a reward of completing the building process. At least, that's how I see it.

Again, thanks for the advice and sharing your experiences. There is really a lot of good info on this forum (and others). I'll keep reading (forums and books) and taking notes.

Benoit
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