Pre-oiler?

I just finished up a new 96 plate oil cooler, fan, thermostat switch in my car. I put it in the front nose between the battery box and the nose itself. Rear mount external oil filter and bypass. I have approx 30 ft of 1/2" I.D. hose run end to end, plus the cooler and filter that are going to have to fill up... It's going to take a case of oil every change :) My new engine is going in next couple of weeks, and it of course shipped without oil. What's the best way to fill everything with oil? I see some really expensive pre-oilers online... What's your recommendation?

I like that. Noob question: Does running 30 feet of hose to the cooler and back require a special oil pump?

Fill the motor case and with the ignition disconnected, crank the motor for a few seconds, recheck the oil lever and add as needed. Continue this proceedure allowing for the oil to be pumped forward to the cooler.
Recheck and keep track of how much you've added for future referrence.
Best to also add a in line drain valve near the cooler. ~Alan

Chuck,,
Will you be using an oil Temperature thermostat to control flow to your front mounted cooler ??
Alan

Yes, I have a thermostat bypass mounted right by the filter in the rear. It will circulate most of the oil straight back to the engine until 175 degrees when it will route all to the cooler. It allows some bleed to the cooler so it will fill at any temp. The cooler fan kicks on at 180. I called the builder and told him how I was routing oil and made sure he put in a good oil pump to handle it. Thanks all for the advice!

Ed, I would just use a HD aftermarket mechanical pump. ~Alan

when i got my motor from bergmann he enclosed a mechanical pump that went into end of drill. worked well. cant fid it now so no picture but im sure u can get one at the hardware store.

Ok, I bought a drill driven pre-oiler at the boat shop made for changing oil... I have to admit I'm kinda second guessing my design running my oil through 30 ft of 1/2" ID hose (I used high-pressure transmission line). I guess that's part of the "Madness". Take a look at my design and see if I've made any glaring errors. Thanks!

Correct, and with the in line stat you'll need to use the stock case mounted oil cooler too.

Thanks Alan! Yep, stock oil cooler in use as well. Any concern about oil flowing back and overwhelming the sump?

Chuck, how are you feeding air to the front cooler?

Ron, I have a fan mounted on the front of the cooler and there are a couple of inches in front of it and a good inch between the cooler itself and the battery box as you might be able to see from the pictures in my first post. I figure fresh air circulating in that area should do the trick.

As Ed mentioned I'd be concerned about stock (or even high output one with 30 mm gears blueprinted to ensure max output) being able to maintain high pressure after pumping oil 30 feet thru 1/2" hose. Seems even 1/4" copper tubing would give less pressure drop. Braided teflon lines would work too -- but costly. Both teflon and the copper would stand up to high heat and wouldn't kink or constrict where it makes a turn. I'd keep eye on oil pressure gauge - bet you'll see big fluctuation when the thermostat opens up - and maybe a red light flicker at idle. I'd be sure to use an anti-drain back oil filter.

You could put ducts from the horn grilles either side to also push air over the cooler too.

I know the racing 911 RSR's used remote front mounted oil coolers - but they are dry sump engines.

Great advice all! I haven't hooked the oil lines up to the rear thermostat yet so its an easy change to the fan switch on the other side of the flow. Actually makes sense and if you look at my diagram that would have the oil flow in the top of the cooler and cycle down to the bottom line out which makes more sense to me as well instead of pushing the oil "uphill". Ducting from the horn grills is a great idea and would be super easy to do. If I don't get the cooling I'm looking for that will be my first change. Right now, my only gauge is the stock oil temp gauge that is just a band and not even degreed... I think adding a pressure and reliable temp gauge is the right idea. Thanks again! Keep them coming if any more suggestions. I'm finishing everything up this weekend as it goes to the shop Monday to have the new drive train installed. WooHoo!

Never did understand why some people put the fan switch ahead of the remote cooler (in the red line). That makes no sense at all to me.

I put the fan switch After the remote cooler (in the blue line). There is no reason to turn on the fan unless the oil coming OUT of the cooler is over 180.

With the long hoses you might see the oil pressure flutter at 180 if you have an oil pressure gauge. As your bypass opens / closes right at 180 you are pressuring / un-pressuring the remote system which affects the pressure of the overall circuit. I have about 2 X 5' feet of hose between bypass and cooler, and my gauge flutters a little right at 180. (Oil pump is a Gene Berg 26mm)

Chuck, channeling front air to the cooler would be a bonus. Like others have said, monitor your oil pressure closely. I thought about mounting a front cooler like yours (no fan, just open to the incoming air), but Henry talked me into going with one of his wheel well cooler/fan combos.
I took the safe route, but I like what you're doing.

Chuck, all you might need is a couple of 4" x 10" pcs of aluminum flat panels mounted to direct air flow it will make a difference.
~Alan

I'm almost embarrassed to post this, but I've changed my mind... Part of the Madness I suppose. I've done the math from various hydraulics charts I've seen posted... I'm going to lose somewhere around 7-10 lbs of oil pressure to route through the 30 ft of hose and elbows, etc... That plus I tried to close my hood last night and it wouldn't!!! Seems when I welded my mounts in place, even after careful measurement, the metal shrank up and turned the cooler far enough inboard that the hood catch was hitting the top of the cooler. Since I had to remove anyway to fix it, I decided to go safe and mount in the rear wheel well like Henry said to do in the first place. I also eliminated the inline thermostat by using an Earl's sandwich thermostat that goes between the filter and external mount. I still think I had a good idea, but I want it right and not have any variables to add any worries. With it in the nose, the bottom of that big 96 vane cooler went almost an inch below the bumper/nose and I was also worried about clearance if I kept it lowered. Great advice from everyone, but I decided to go safe. Sorry for the exercise :)

Chuck, it seems that you've reached the point where 'Welcome to The Madness' has evolved to 'Stop The Madness'!!

You should see my garage floor with tools and hoses and welder and burnt wire and various "stuff" everywhere. Definitely the home of a "mad mechanic". In the last week I've done sway bars, new shocks, replaced the brake shoes because hell I was there anyway, rewired my fog lights because that wire got damaged when I had my little fire... add the cooler exercise and my wife is wondering if I'm lost forever.

Chuck, you have no idea as to the number of times I have installed an experimental project that was thought up while residing in the official Merklin Motor Craft rest room think tank just to turn around and rip it all back out (and hide the receipts) all before the metal has cooled, in favor of a "I now have a better idea" this considered to be SOP i.e. all part of the madness. ~Alan

Man after my own heart, Chuck. Except I usually don't change my mind until catastrophe forces the issue. Yer gonna have a nice car.

Crap gotta hide the receipts! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

...you can now keep your Man-Card!!!

Finished! B&M Hi-Tek Cooler w/built in fan switch, Derale sandwich thermostat, all tucked into my left rear wheel well. Plumbing was tight, but no-rubbing and enough curve to keep from kinking. GLAD to get out from under the car and see daylight. BTW when I gather up the original parts, I have an EMPI 96 vane cooler, fan, inline switch, and inline thermostat that I'm going to sell really reasonable. Never seen oil or power so new other than a few install then change my mind marks...

Nice neat job Chuck, can I suggest that you fabricate 1/4" hardware cloth "screen" or some other shield over the cooler and filter to protect them from kicked up stones... ~Alan

Chuck,
If it's the same as your showing here I would be interested in buying for my ride - email me dlschu42 at comcast.net.
Thanks,
Dale

Chuck:

Very nice job!

You could hire yourself out to do those!

gn

Chuck, I think that you did the right thing moving that to the rear. Nice clean install. I am enjoying letting you document the engine upgrade process. I'm going to tackle mine as soon as I get back to Cali. Keep up the good work!

Chuck, do you have any clearance between the cooler and the body of the car?

I was sorta thinking the same as Ron. Looks like it's pretty tight for a good air flow thru the cooler.

~WB

When we did DeWalt's coupe, we used isolators; little, inch-or-less-long, squashable rubber tubes with an inside diameter just big enough for the mounting bolts to pass through. There was a little more clearance that way. You can't see the results in this picture, but it looks remarkably similar.
There was also no effort made on Tom's coupe to guard against water on the electric fan motor. It was in line with the inside edge of the tire; we maybe could have done that better, but clearance was an issue.

Additional, maybe helpful info ... You're supposed to put oil in the filter before screwing it on ... We overlooked that with Tom's car. I bet oil changes require a bucket. We should have maybe mounted the filter vertically.

The good news is that those coolers, as well as DeRale and Setrab, only require 1/2" or more of clearance between the fins and the mounting surface. The fan pulls all the air it needs to do the cooling with just that small gap.

The bad news is that the cooler does very little cooling without the fan running, because the air doesn't naturally flow through those gaps (the cooler is not in a natural air stream).

None of this is bad, especially if you have an automatic fan switch to kick the fan on above 175-180 degrees - this system works just fine.

I have the DeRale cooler, slightly larger than his and mounted almost identically. It has about 5/8" of clearance, using the integral mounting brackets and works very well. Haven't had any trouble with the fan motor in the tire spray pattern, either (it's sealed, anyway).

I did, however, mount the filter vertically so I can fill both sides of the filter element with oil and then screw it into the mount.

Here you go:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f254/speedster356/Coolerandfilterlocations.jpg

Looks good, Gordon. Henry's set-up, which looks very similar to yours, will be going into my IM. Henry been installing this type of cooler in his cars for years, and he's never had a cooler failure or complaint. That's good enough for me.

Yes to a couple of questions... As mentioned, there is about 5/8 inch or so of space between the fiberglass surface and the cooler vanes. And, yes, I'm using a thermostat sandwich plate in the external filter kit that routes the oil fully to the cooler at the same temperature that the fan kicks on. Finally true to the post topic, I've got a pre-oiler that will fill everything up before I start the engine at each oil change. All in all, I think the install looks good and I'll find out how well it works when I get the new engine warmed up good the first time later this week :) Thanks for all the great comments!

Sorry to bump this post as it's life has run, but I didn't want anyone to do this EXACTLY the way I did without a new found warning. With the inlet/outlet on the bottom as pic'ed, I'm getting backflow problems just from gravity. Oil reads LOW when I first turn the engine off and VERY high 10 mins later. I'm gonna have to flip it so the hoses are on top. It never ends does it guys? :)

By the way, my new 2275 seems to be a thumper! I haven't driven yet until I sort out the oil issues. But back on the road soon!