Preventing VW engine Fires

We've all read of how fiberglass reacts with fire - throw in some VW magnesium (engine and trans case) and you have a real weenie roast. A good size fire extinguisher is mandatory --- built in halon (or what ever EPA now permits) is better. Below is a good Spring job I found on SAMBA from back in 2000 by Bob Hoover.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled/msg/756a4a442e3c0996?q=tulz&start=10&hl=en&rnum=13
or
http://tinyurl.com/47uu5eu

Remember old fuel line hose is not compatible with new ethanol fuels. 5-30 year old fuel lines is not compatible with even old fuel.

Toasted Speedster photo from internet search - thankfully not mine!

That'll buff out.

Well somebody had to say it first!

Rusty Tubs will be all over that wreck.

BWAAAAAAAAAA......

A good extinguisher is necessary. Some owners place them where they are visible, so that you look at them occassionally. Make sure you know how to use it. If you ever get it recharged, use it first on a small fire. That will accomplish two things: you will not have to use it initially on something REALLY important, and you can see the residue the extinguishing agent leaves: CO2 won't leave anything, but small ones don't put out much fire; dry powder leaves a fairly good mess, Halon won't leave anything either.

I have a pair of gloves by the extinguisher. I have put out lots of car fires, especially old bugs back in the day. Even if the owner had an extinguisher (not likely), he would not be able to open the deck lid since it was HOT, so he emptied the extinguisher on the outside of the engine compartment. Check your fuel lines occassionally and use the best quality you can afford. If you smell gas, investigate.

I agree that an extinguisher is a necessity. I installed a five lb. fire bottle, older good Halon, with a cable pull handle. One jet aimed at each carburetor and a third aimed at my Eberspacher gas heater, just in case.

In case of fire, stop car, take a DEEP breath, pull handle, and get the heck OUT!

"Rusty Tubs will be all over that wreck. "


Love it!!!!

Wolfgang, I thought my IM looked bad after its engine fire!
This time I went with an automatic system that mounts on the firewall.
One engine fire is enough, and burnt fiberglass REALLY sinks!

Somewhere around 2006 I wrote a smart assed comment to Cory with regards to car-fire safty, only to find out he was a Fireman! Kind of shut me up..., telling a fireman how to put fires out.

Anyway, this was something my Dad had mentioned before.
"I've always heard the fire extinguisher rule as..., you only put in as big a fire extinguisher as what you think your car is worth".

David / dd-ardvark

Common sense and regular servicing will certainly lesson the chance of fire. If it doesn't run right, pops though the carb etc. your chances of internal combustion going to external combustion increases greatly. Hoses, lines, wiring, fuel filter placement, leaking carbs, and gas fumes hanging in the garage important indications of pending problems.

For those that are no quite mechanically inclined, when in doubt get it checked out.

Six years ago, I had Type IV motor incident (bad push rod) that caused a pop through a carb catching the air cleaner element on fire, how fast that fire spread from a quick glance in the rear view mirror to confirm my instant suspicions the hibachi grill in flames, a quick downshift to a full stop amazed me all within 10 seconds.
It took out some of the deck lid liner, deck lid edge, one carb, fuel line and minor electrical. You the driver, have less then thirty seconds to realize the peril, gather your thoughts, shut it down, get out safely and take action to contain the fire or step back and watch the show. ~Alan

Also check Ignition wires. Fuel lines and filters in engine compartment ESPECIALLY near the coil are a common cause of engine fires if/when a wire arcs.

Just for kicks, next time you have the opportunity, watch your engine running in total darkness.
If you have a light show or sparks anywhere around the ignition system, wires, etc., replace as necessary anything suspicious until you no longer see signs of ignition escape.

Greg

One of the big causes of fires in the VW engine, other than old and cracked fuel lines, is the filter shown here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63vwdriver/4315077416/

Don't place a fuel filter over an electrical source like the distributor or near a HIGH voltage electrical source like a 40,000 volt coil, and never use one made of cheep injection molded plastic. They cost a buck at the VW shows, 'cause that's all that they're worth.

Plus as Wolfgang points out, the new fuel formula will melt these little plastic filters. Seriously, they turn rubbery, then disintegrate.

Another cause for fires is the inlet tube coming loose and falling out of carburetors, it's only a press-in fit. With a single Solex, the fuel pumps all over the coil and distributor, with duals it pumps all over the hot exhaust.

Gotta be careful to do preventative maintenance and check-ups. Do them correctly and often and you won't need an extinguisher, but you really ought to have one on board.

Wonder how many fire suppression systems we'd need to buy to get a club/group discount? Would a 5# pull system with 2 nozzles be adequate? Summit Racing has the Fire Bottle brand for $400. What's preferred chemical - Halon or Dupont FE36. I thought Halon was real bad to breath.

My only experience has been with dry-chemical type in industrial settings. Cheap, very effective but a total pain in the ass to clean up afterward. Really raises hell (chemical reaction) with all copper and aluminum.

Would advise using only gas types if they are effective for gasoline fires.

Dudes, like I said, using Halon, take a DEEP breath, pull the handle, and get out. You can't breathe Halon, there is NO oxygen in it, that is the point. Take away either the fuel or the oxidizer and no more fire. But Halon leaves no residue and works FAST especially if the nozzles are aimed properly.

We did a group buy on Spyderclub, 5 or 6 systems, and it saved us about $50 each if I remember correctly. We went direct to Safecraft.

Daniel can you post a pic of your system?

Mike, I will when I get to a computer, right now on the mobile.

Here ya go, Mike:

http://www.spyderclub.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=12157&highlight=heater