Project #27

I just picked up a stock style red CMC, 1776 with dual carbs, sump, front discs, 914 gauges.
Has the usual see through fiberglass below the red gelcoat, a few edge chips I'll either fix of shoot the car red again. The door gaps are good... go figure that.
I do need to replace the windshild, replace the old lexan side curtains and body side moldings, add Speedster scripts then pass over the mechanicals.
This speedster will get the quartz 12v. heater I ordered. This will be a decent entry level speedster.

Sounds good. Im interested in that same heater

Yeah Alan, keep us posted on how that heater works. Illinois get a bit brisk in the winter.

Colder than Burbank?

My plan is to hang a piece of plastic from the ceiling the shop to create a small area, then run the shop A/C unit, then fire up the quartz heater and see what it actually does.

Alan, you're the man!

burbank is cold for us wussy california natives. 60 degrees might as well be 32

I got the heater today, hot wired it to a battery charger, set it to 40 amps and it works decent. You're not going to bake Toll House cookies with it but I believe it will warm the car up.
It has a two speed fan switch and now mfg'd in a black finish with stainless front grill, nice looking heater... a great improvment over those 12v ceramic cigarette lighter plug in types. I would rate this similar to heat that would come out of one side of a good working heater box.

Crapola!

Upon closer inspection of the three element quartz tubes, the centerone is inop and the thing still puts out good heat!...This is a plus...
I'll call the vendor on Mpnday for a replacement.

Alan, who makes the heater, could be a nice addition for my D up here in the great white north eh!

Simon

Hey Alan, can you post a link to this particular 12v heater?

angela

Google "DC thermal", as mentioned in the Newbie section.

I just did, Jim. I came up with a nice webs site and selected the option for 12v heaters.

Came up with heaters that were 30amps and higher in the 12v range. I know Alan won't screw this up, but for the rest of us garage monkeys, a bit of prudence is required as a stock generator is about 30 amps (If I recall correctly), vw alternators are 50-60, some are more. Still need to run lights, etc...

Not saying it's a bad idea, just got to make sure we all do the math first.

angela

Pussies

I have an alternator on the car, went with the 40 amp unit. As I mentioned the 2 speed fan forced heat that it generates is decent, then I discovered that only 2 of the 3 quartz elements was working, so back it goes for a replacement. That should produce yet another 1/3 heat output .... stay tuned for details.

Okay, I'm not trying to be a complete dick here but really need to add this up.

If your heater pulls 30 amps and your headlamps/markers/etc., pull at least ten, maybe 15 (unless you've gone nuts with your lamps) then you are already needing at least 40. That's assuming you have no loss at connectors, etc. Right?

A short time on a full draw, meh. Deal with it. But let's imagine a damp, drizzly or possibly foggy drive to Carlisle. Lights on and heater, right? You got nuttin' left. You got no electric fuel pump, no radio, you aren't driving your instrument cluster, fuel sending unit, etc. And your alternator is NOT intended to run full hilt all of the time.

I'm not saying go bananas and put some big block chevy 90 amp alternator in it. But a 55-60 amp might be a really splendid idea.

angela

... to say nothing of paltry heat even a 30a draw is going to put out.

30a x 12v= 360 watts or 1228 btu/hr. Your body produces about 300 btu/hr just sitting there. A candle produces about 400 btu/hr. So... that heater is going to draw all the current your alternator produces, and make the same amount of heat as 4 people sitting around, or 3 candles.

Nothing beats fire. An electric heater can's come close.

You do make more heat if you're nekkid. I'm just saying...

angela

12 Volt DC heater rated at 40 Amps, 2352 Watts and 2352 BTU's.
10,000 Hour Polymer Composite Element developed exclusively by DC Thermal Inc..
Vertical mounting capability.
Designed specifically for the harshest outdoor environments featuring our proprietary quartz encapsulated composite elements and high-temp silicone vibration dampeners.
Vacuum Sealed Elements
50% more efficient than standard alloy elements (same amps equals more heat)
Constructed out of T5052 Vinyl Clad black Aluminum.
S12-4000 $210.00

OK, it does sound like alot more BTU's than you normally get out of that size heater but that really isn't the point.

You can't run a 40 amp accessory with a 40 amp alternator and still drive the car.

angela

Agreed :~) ...The Bosche alternator I have in the speedster is rated at 55 amps and I'll use it for the short (no pun) term. If this heater does what it claims to do, there are higher rated alternators that are used in off road sand rails etc.

Looking forward to you results! As always, Alan, following your build with great interest!

angela

I'm not trying to make waves here, but physical laws are immutable. The math doesn't add up. Either the heater draws more than 40a, or it doesn't produce 2352 btu/hr.

Ohms law says that volts x amps= watts. 12v x 40a= 480 watts. 1 watt= 3.414 btu/hr. 480 watts= 1639 (or so) btu/hr.

Lets say it's getting 14.6v, because your alternator produces more than 12v. Now the output is 1994 btu/hr (14.6v x 40a= 584 watts= 1994 btu/hr).

For the heater to produce 2352 btu/hr, it'll have to use 689 watts, or 47.2a @ 14.6v, or 57a at 12v. Either way, that's at least #6 wire to the heater, and a 60a- 80a fuse.

The thing is: you're going to need a 90a alternator (at least), because if you run anything at all (headlights at 60w per= 120 watts, or 10a, etc.) you're going to need 40a (or so) of reserve.

For reference, an Espar D3LC gasoline heater produces 12,000 btu/hr, and uses 3a. As I said, there's nothing like a fire to make heat.

The bottom line is that the electric heater would probably produce enough heat if there are no air leaks in the car. But, if there were no air leaks, then a couple of passengers would eventually heat up the cabin- and that isn't the case in any speedster I've ever been in. Electric heat has its place (in the seats, or an electric blanket), but to heat air- it's going to use a LOT of electricity, more than anything but the most expensive VW alternator is going to produce.

Alan,

You've got a typo in the specs you posted. The 40A unit will draw about 480 watts, not 2352, which is the BTU output. Most data bases state 3.41 BTU's/watt, which would mean 1637 BTU's at 480 watts. This company claims better efficiency, with a factor of 4.9/1, a 44% increase. You're the scout ant.

Jim yes ...I copy and pasted off their web page and it's their typo

Should be:

Model: S124000
Volts: 12
Amps 40
Watts 480
BTU 2352

I assume that the increased BTU is the design of the quartz tube element, I'll check the amp draw etc...we'll see.

I hear you, Stan.
I'm still looking into the electric vest.
Andie's happy with the electric blanket.

Alan, good luck with the project and please keep us posted with the results.
I'm afraid, however, that you won't have project #27 long enough to test it during the winter months. ;-)

BTW, they offer that same heater at Aircraft Spruce for less $:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/heaters124000.php

One morning over breakfast, I sketched out a way to duct air from a front mounted remote oil coiler into the cab of the spyder. When not used, the ducting would shunt fresh air from under the car into the cooler with none of it going into the cab. When the heater was needed, the fresh air inlet would close and pull cabin air across the heater, with blower motors to push the air back into the cab.

Like a heater core but filled with oil instead of water. Theoretically it would work. I didn't bother to venture further into it because the 3.2 ran so cool that I figured I'd never get a remote cooler warm enough to use. I guess I could have not used the engine mounted cooler - eliminated it. That would have worked.

Then I ran into a fellow at a bus conference who worked at a place called Webesto...

Stan is right. Fire is good.

angela

Don't forget about the 'wave modulation'! 8-)

Alan, speaking of learning something new everyday, I only recently learned that 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of our population!

I have two oil coolers on the car. The first one is the bus cooler sticking out of the back of the Raby fan shroud. The second one, the multi-pass square jobber, is right behind my driver's seat.
I reverse the wires on it when it gets chilly, and it blows hot air right at the firewall behind my hollow driver's seat and warms it up nicely.
I can't say how well the oil breather tank does for the passenger's side, but I don't ride over there much.

I found the picture.

Fire, baby, fire! Vintage Eberspachers rock! Burn you out of the car. Literally, at 30 F, top and side curtains up, in traffic, sweating. Hell, no top, sitting, you are still sweating. At 60 mph, very comfortable, jacket open, top up. Non-windy day, 40 F, tonneau over passenger, no top, quite comfortable.

Project #27 has been freshened up and available $14.5k

Pictures?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250899005375&ssPag...

Seventeen bidders and four days to go. Not bad, Doc.

COOL!

Jim what's with " Minot,ND ? "