Project 43 ......The Outlaw

Alan,

Personally, I envy what you are about to do and should your new Outlaw come any where near to resembling the one that was featured on Jay Leno's Garage it will be the Cream of the Crop.  Really looking forward  to seeing it!!  

One question: 

When shaving the top will you lower the top bow and install the new fabric yourself?  I've been wanting to do the same thing to my Speedster but haven't been able to find an auto upholster & convertible top specialist locally that would be willing to do it. 

Cliff

Keeping in mind headroom, I'm going to lower the back bow 1.5", that's the max you can go w/o having too much material laying on the body, just mount the material snaps higher.  Attached is a photo of a low top that was done for me by a local street rod shop including custom bows.....so low I couldn't see anything side to side but looked great standing still.years ago and the cost was big bucks

You know what a big fan I am of your work, Al. You know how much I love silver/black. You know how impressed I am with that motor. I know you've done this many, many times.

I may be in the extreme minority, but I'm just not a fan of the chopped top. the side windows are already close to impossible to see out of, and to my eye at least, the lowering of the back bow reduces visibility without giving anything back aesthetically. I can't imagine it would make the car more salable (and I know that's your goal here).

The bones of the car are very interesting-- light weight, big power. I'd think that maximizing the resale value would mean pushing it in the direction of an Emory-style outlaw, rather than in a street-rod direction. I worry about the cast faux-Fuchs wheels as well-- I think a set of Vintage Motorcars wheels might be lighter, stronger, and more in keeping with the ethos of the car.

I could be completely off, as you've proven you can build things that people really, really like.

The silver Speedster was built by Chuck Olenyk (sp.). That car is just about my favorite Speedster of all time, except for the rear view mirrors, which I find distracting and disrupting of the upper profile of the car. I'd prefer the Carreras mounted on the body, not the doors. But to each his own......

One of my favorite things about the car is the way he mounted the driving lights using what appear to be AL brackets thru the original bumper bracket openings. Very clean and neat fabrication.

Looks to me like there is an inch or two difference between the height of the roof on Olenyk's car and the red Merklin build. I'm with Stan on the roof line. There is a point, it seems where you can go from Outlaw to street rod real quick with that roof line.

If you could see the back of Olenyk's, there are some kind of fabricated patches covering the  rear bumper bracket openings on the body. Color matched to the silver paint. I guess he thought he could always put the back bumper back on easily if he wanted to.

Alan, congratulations in advance for what will be a great build!

As Bob mentioned, there's a fine line between the height/shape of an Outlaw top and getting it really down there, like a Carson top as emulated on Alan's "Red Maria".

When I did my top, a so-called, 'Low-Bow' version from Vintage, I attached the top bows to the mounting point/tension-lever with small clamps just to see how various bow heights would look from the side.  My intention was to go as low as a Carson - until I saw it.  That woulda been wicked low - Like peeping out through a gun turret low.  My only advantage would have been that I don't have any fabric surrounding the side windows so I get a bit more visual area, almost the height of the top of the windshield.  

In the end, I dropped both bows 1-1/2" and everything fit nicely with good snap position.  But remember that, at 5'7" I am NOT a basketball player.  When I sit in the top-up car, the top material is 2" from my head (3 fingers, and my seats sit pretty low on the deck) so I don't think this is the top height for anyone taller than 5'9" unless you do as Alan is doing and keep the middle bow regular height, but that gives you a slightly more bulbous line from the side.  It all works for me.  The side windows without the material around them (they look just like Troy's side windows) give adequate side vision and the back window (smaller than Alan's, even) fits the shape of my rear view mirror, a modified motorcycle mirror, just about right.  If I had Vintage-style side windows it would be tougher to see what's going on around me.

I happen to be 6'1" at least I was and those chop tops are not my favourite ....

I like to see well out of my windows. A friend had a Crysler 300 you know the chop top version Crysler decided to make. I drove it, and in it, many times and it's not a pleasant feeling for me.

I love open top driving for the feeling of unlimited vision it gives, and of course the wind in your hair .....  

The car came with silver / grey powder coated steel wide five's and drum skins ...It didn't work for me and went with the wide five style Fuchs....yes heavier but with the lighter car and big HP I think it will work as I wanted to somewhat replicate Chuck Olenyk's ride.  Depending on how the seats and tracks fit the car, I'll only lower the front bow 3/4" and the rear 1.25...the full Lexan side curtains will help with visibility but how often do we go with the top and SC in~ I do like the Ray Dot's on that silver car but may go with painted door mirrors as I did on the cream speedster two builds ago. It's hard for me not to go way out of the box on a build like this one ( think white red "Candy" ) the car has to have appeal to the majority to make it an easy sale and that is the reason I didn't go for an all out wild Outlaw on this final absolute last build. Just pulled the motor today so that the shroud and alternator can be color matched to the speedster paint.

 Did I really read final absolute last built ???

Agree that you walk a narrow line when trying to trim the top.

To me, the stock top on most of our replicas does look kinda goofy - ballooned up too high for the car's lines, but any smaller and inside space/sightlines become real issues.

Here's a frame from the Leno video of Olenyk's top. I think he really nailed it - as with most everything else on the car. He talks about the top at about 3:50 into the video and then lowers it showing the frame. He says he started with a full IM frame and lowered just the rear bow, but having a full scissor frame to work with may allow more freedom in adjusting the shape. The whole skin is custom - from a specialty shop.

It looks like it holds most of the stock height until behind the rear door edge.

Here's a link to the video.

Hooray for Alan's next last build!

What is your next last build, old buddy?

You can't stop on an odd number, and it's not that far to 50!

Downsizing this summer for a well deserved more casual lifestyle spending time with Connie and friends.....sans tools, lift, welder and fiberglass dust. All shop related parts supplies tools to go in May .

When Chuck Olenyk build the car that was featured on Jay Leno's show he did not chop the top; however, he did get Rod Klingelhofer, who is affiliated with Classis 9 Leather Shop in Dearborn Heights, MI, lower just the rear  bow.  That did alter the external appearance of the top but not in a negative way and without sacrificing the ability for a driver to see out the side windows, nor did it have a negative effect on the drivers head clearance.  I found this out after contacting Rod Klingelhofer directly to find out just how difficult it was for him to do it. . . and I am still looking for someone locally to help me do the same thing to my car.

I really do like the idea of installing Raydyot style review mirrors on the doors rather than the bulky Carrera type added to the front fenders because they will give the car a more graceful streamline appearance. . . and because they were often used on many European race cars back in the 1960s. 

Here is the car VS built for me using several ideas borrowed from the car that Chuck Olenyk build as well as a few Troy Sloan helped me with.   It turned out looking fairly nice with wheels made by Vintage Motors and it always manages to draw a crowd where ever we take it; however, to coin an often used old phrase, "Welcome to the Madness," we've made a few minor changes to it since the pictures were taken so if I had to do the whole thing over again like Alan, I would welcome the opportunity.

Cliff

Cliff: 

Tell me about the driving light mounting, brackets etc. That is such a clean fabrication.

Just a great looking car!!!!

Maybe we should plan a "Cruise to Dr. Clock's" as part of the Carlisle festivities and then have an auction/raffle of what's left of his shop stuff - - - Just a thought....

el Doctor Clock dice: ".....this final absolute last build."

While choking back the temptation, strong though it is, to say something "Smart-Aleky" about this, I have to remember all of the reasons that I had when I retired and just the desire to slow down and do "fun stuff".  I applaud you, Alan, for heading into this with the right attitude.  "Stuff to do" will come, but at YOUR pace and bidding.

Shall we all take a moment to reflect on someone building 43 different cars, all of them unique and all of them, "Cool".  Thanks for all your work, Al.  

We all applaud you:

You can sell the speedster stuff, but keep the tools. My .02. 

I agree with Stan, keep the tools, retirement needs a certain level of toy making accessories, in this case tools.  I think the real definition of financial independence is to be able to choose where and what you want to spend your time.  If you actually enjoy it then after a rest you can choose to do those things even speedsters that you want to do, not have to do.  Anyway, my garage is accumulating tools to do those projects I care to do with my creative juices and then apply the El Guapo rule... DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE let it DRIVE I mean RIDE RIDE let it Ride. !! 

BTO   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmSXIOlN6mY

Thank you Gordon, building has been a dream come true x 43, your comments are much appreciated !

I'm with Stan on this one -- you have rec'd my best wishes and best advice for the "retirement" previously under seperate cover.  I personally don't see you going totally cold turkey on the cr thing, but hey, what do I know?  Do not dump the tools.  And if you have not been tackling all these builds in your own way, at your own pace, as you and only you would have it be done, then I really have been missing something.  You may find yourself looking to tinker after a while, and it would be helpful to be able to.  Just sayin'

And I'm totally with Gordo on the appreciation thing -- add my applause to the Bloom County noise.  BRAVO!!

So this is what we'll be doing instead of me wrenching..... Fine Senior Living :~)

https://www.facebook.com/Pfleg...os/1400030726684012/

Dr. Clock is the last and only East Coast builder of Speedsters. Who, oh who, can replace him?

I'm in the minority here but I LOVE the chopped top. And a lowered Speedie too, wide body, shaved doors 

I'll offer up the entire misc . contents of my small home shop at a really great price, what a great hobby for someone...I'll even pull the electric heater out of the wall  :~)

You know Alan I am sure someone will get a great deal if you decide to sell all your tools but the driving force behind the tools is the guy I admire and tip my hat toward- the willpower and guts to pound through the projects and complete them - wow - I feel fortunate to call you a friend.  

Whatever you do I am happy for you.

"Not the Electric Heater!?!?!"

Panhandle Bob posted:

Cliff: 

Tell me about the driving light mounting, brackets etc. That is such a clean fabrication.

Just a great looking car!!!!

Bob,

We got the idea for making the driving light mounting brackets from Troy Sloan.   See the diagram below. 

It's a simple design easy to make plus the brackets will be less expensive than any ready made examples found on the internet at inflated prices.  

All it takes is a strip of flat metal rod that is 1 1/4" wide and 1/8" thick.   Cut were needed and then weld the two parts together.  Round off the end sections and then use a grinder or metal file to smooth out the edges of the mounting bar.  Next drill the two mounting bolt holes where needed and drill a hole where the driving light will be attached before sending the new brackets to a chrome shop.  

After being chromed the brackets can then be mounted directly to the frame where the bumpers would normally be attached.  

Cheap, quick to make and easy to install.

Thanks, Cliff. Kudos to Troy for the design.

I was all in til the part about a trip to the chrome platers - ouch, that would make the $80 a pair Samba ones look cheap.  Why not make it out of aluminium (a few grams saved = more hp).  Once welded the aluminium could be buffed to a chrome finish and a clear coat applied or it could be sanded to a dull finish. There's probably aluminium angle that could be cut from a single piece and not require any welding.  Stainless steel could also be used but would be overkill and adds weight.

http://www.metalsdepot.com/pro...m2.phtml?page=sangle

Available in 2, 4, 6,8, 12, and 25' lengths.

As Greg poiinted out, if you make it out of aluminum you'll cut the weight by more than half (steel is 2.5 times heavier), and there'll be no need to chrome them. Drill some holes and they'll weigh even less! Al

Don't bother thanking me...

PS- I know you'll probably have to get them welded up (afterall, not many guys can weld aluminum at home), but they'll be so much more high tech than steel brackets. Maybe build more than 1 pair to keep the cost down? You'll have the material and the guy welding them probably won't charge much different for another pair or 2. And with holes to make them lighter; well, everybody will ooh and aahh...

WOLFGANG posted:

I was all in til the part about a trip to the chrome platers - ouch, that would make the $80 a pair Samba ones look cheap.  Why not make it out of aluminium (a few grams saved = more hp).  Once welded the aluminium could be buffed to a chrome finish and a clear coat applied or it could be sanded to a dull finish. There's probably aluminium angle that could be cut from a single piece and not require any welding.  Stainless steel could also be used but would be overkill and adds weight.

http://www.metalsdepot.com/pro...m2.phtml?page=sangle

Available in 2, 4, 6,8, 12, and 25' lengths.

Gregg,

You are right about costs since the chrome shop charged $100 for plating but I liked the idea of using chrome and would do it again if given the opportunity.

Cliff Presley - Charlotte, NC posted:

Panhandle Bob posted:

Cliff: 

Tell me about the driving light mounting, brackets etc. That is such a clean fabrication.

Just a great looking car!!!!

Bob,

We got the idea for making the driving light mounting brackets from Troy Sloan.   See the diagram below. 

It's a simple design easy to make plus the brackets will be less expensive than any ready made examples found on the internet at inflated prices.  

All it takes is a strip of flat metal rod that is 1 1/4" wide and 1/8" thick.   Cut were needed and then weld the two parts together.  Round off the end sections and then use a grinder or metal file to smooth out the edges of the mounting bar.  Next drill the two mounting bolt holes where needed and drill a hole where the driving light will be attached before sending the new brackets to a chrome shop.  

After being chromed the brackets can then be mounted directly to the frame where the bumpers would normally be attached.  

Cheap, quick to make and easy to install.

Looks like a top tensioner to me.

Best is to use 1.50 aluminum angle stock, shape it similar to the above design or your preference , various grades of sand paper, green Scotch Brite pad and then a buffing with aluminum polish....it will look great.

This almost became the final design for the outlaw but had to tone it down to a variation of Chuck Olenyk's silver Outlaw

Alan could you not use aluminum and cut it to shape then weld it with the new rods that allow propane torch welding?  It should be plenty strong for a fog lamp and can be polished much easier than the cost of chroming the units.. just saying

Aluminum angle cut down is way-the-heck cheaper (and better) than anything TIG or gas welded.

Will do the brackets out of 1.5 x 1.5 x 3/16  aluminum angle . I'll post details when I get to it in a month or so.   Outlaw is ready to trailer over to paint shop tomorrow.

Cliff Presley - Charlotte, NC posted:

 

When Chuck Olenyk build the car that was featured on Jay Leno's show he did not chop the top; however, he did get Rod Klingelhofer, who is affiliated with Classis 9 Leather Shop in Dearborn Heights, MI, lower just the rear  bow.  That did alter the external appearance of the top but not in a negative way and without sacrificing the ability for a driver to see out the side windows, nor did it have a negative effect on the drivers head clearance.  I found this out after contacting Rod Klingelhofer directly to find out just how difficult it was for him to do it. . . and I am still looking for someone locally to help me do the same thing to my car.

I really do like the idea of installing Raydyot style review mirrors on the doors rather than the bulky Carrera type added to the front fenders because they will give the car a more graceful streamline appearance. . . and because they were often used on many European race cars back in the 1960s. 

Here is the car VS built for me using several ideas borrowed from the car that Chuck Olenyk build as well as a few Troy Sloan helped me with.   It turned out looking fairly nice with wheels made by Vintage Motors and it always manages to draw a crowd where ever we take it; however, to coin an often used old phrase, "Welcome to the Madness," we've made a few minor changes to it since the pictures were taken so if I had to do the whole thing over again like Alan, I would welcome the opportunity.

Cliff

 

Cliff designed his car around a car I sold several years ago and it turned out beautiful!

It is VERY similar to the car I'll have on eBay very soon.

Alan Merklin posted:

Best is to use 1.50 aluminum angle stock, shape it similar to the above design or your preference , various grades of sand paper, green Scotch Brite pad and then a buffing with aluminum polish....it will look great.

As Bill said in a post above, I've been using cut angle iron to mount fog lights through the bumper bracket holes on Outlaws.   I originally used angle aluminum, but found it was just not rigid enough and have been using angle iron for the last few cars.  Chrome them, powder coat them or paint them and they look great. 

.....off to the paInt shop, in just 7 hours the dash was filled back in and all other holes filled and sanded.  Tomorrow,  high build primer / sealer.

It's primer - sealer day