Proposal to teach Carburetor Theory at West/East Coast Meetings next year.

Great idea!

aircooled posted:

I'm not sure who all the organizers are of these meetings but next year my Spyder will be done and I'll be looking for things to do. Here are my thoughts.

 

There is no reason this couldn't be expanded to include other relevant technical courses each year. It would certainly add more enrichment to our gatherings.

 That's it. Your comments please.................Bruce

A large 10-4 on that idea, Bruce. Thanks for the offer. 

We have had informal Tech talks at previous Carlisle events..... BTW I too taught Auto Shop for a private State funded  At Risk Youth Facility  where we used Speedsters as our hands on cars. We built a custom CMC flared fender Speedster that was featured at Carlisle. A few  years later, that very car went across the Barrett Jackson auction block.

There's actual, well, 'science' behind how a carburetor works?

I never would have guessed.

I thought they just kept adding spritzers and springs and gizmos until the damned things somehow got the job done, but that no one really understood why.

I would actually pony up a few bucks for this course. I'd be particularly interested in the practical/diagnostic aspects, and I'd bet a lot of other guys would be too.

Spend a couple of long afternoons with a wideband and a box of jets. There will be an "a-ha" moment.

Alan, David, Bob,Ed....Thanks for the comments !

Sacto..Yup, there's a little science, probably in the Physics side, but science non the less. Kind of simple yet there are some basic rules that must be adhered to. Even then, one can pull their hair out in the diagnosis area only to find out that it was an electrical problem in the first place.

Stan....you just made me think to bring my Wideband sniffer if I do this presentation. I'm sure some have never seen one or know what it is or for. Maybe bring an Edlebrock  "AFB" four barrel to look at as well. The original AFB design was designed by Weber for Carter. Only that design and a Holly have survived all these years as hot rod carburetor.  IMOH, a Holly is 1 grade level up from a Sears "Silent flush" toilet but I'm sure others would disagree.

I don't wish to make this a real high tech. presentation. I just want to explain the theory of the 5 to seven different circuits in a carburetor. What each circuit is for and when it is used. The rest would be handling a Weber 44 during disassembly, showing where all those circuits are in one and how delicate they are yet somewhat maintenance free.  I'll use a white board and have handouts.  It could be fun and interesting !  Any event coordinators who are interested in the possibility of doing this should let me know.   If it's a go, then I would prepare a course outline and a lecture plan which I could post here so everyone could see my course content/plan.

I would like to attend one on Subaru Transaxles !.................Bruce

@aircooled : heck yes I am interested in a how-to session about carburetors!  Keeping a pair of carbs in sync makes all the difference in the world.  And hopefully I’ll get to hear about my favorite word I learned in High School Auto Shop: Stoichiometry!

@aircooled- 

 Sounds like a great idea, Bruce! The basic principle(s) of a carburetor is simpler than some think. And the comment of the Holley being but 1 step up from a Sears Silent Flush- that's the laugh of the day right there!   Al

All this time I thought is was just FM. I had no idea there was any science involved. At least that is what Anthony has always told me. 

Stoichiometrics Mr. Mayo ?  You must have gone to a high tech High School. The last time I saw that word used was in an SAE Paper written by UPS engineers when they were experimenting with "Fumagation". They were trying to inject ethanol into the intake manifold of a Diesel engine as a method of reducing diesel fuel consumption in their delivery trucks. It didn't work out but it was interesting. Stoichiometric values were not controllable in this application.

Al,  They are indeed and amazing that they do what their supposed to do pretty well.

Event Coordinators.....Let me know if this is something you'd be interested doing next year............Bruce

@aircooled : Looking back I wish I went to a more high tech HS.  I’m happily a victim of the public school system, but I took so much more through life from my Auto Shop and Welding classes than most of the others combined.

Not long after I graduated, the Auto Shop classes at my HS were cancelled and the huge eight bay work shop became the maintenance area for the school equipment.  I’m convinced no more than 5% of the kids at that school know the actual definition of “checking the oil”.

Then again, the “old” cars my friends and I worked on in the 80’s were pure muscle from the mid-50’s through the mid-70’s.  We could do pretty much anything to them with a good set of tools and just enough knowledge to be dangerous.  I can’t tell you how many of us ripped the Quadrajets off our SBCs to replace them with leaky Holley double pumpers.  Maybe that’s why the smell of unburied fuel in the exhaust always takes me back.

I’ll just go ahead and say it: “these kids today don’t understand”!

I apologize in advance for spinning this thread off course if it happens.  I still want to learn and I’m excited to have the opportunity to glean some information from you if you get enough interest...which sounds pretty likely!

I’ll say it again (because it’s such a fun word): Stoichiometry!

Best class in HS was Metal Shop, Mr. DeJohn was a younger man who was able to work well with kids making the class was interesting with a lot of hands on, for some ( me) we were allowed to stay after school for additional shop time.

aircooled posted:

Stoichiometrics Mr. Mayo ?  You must have gone to a high tech High School. The last time I saw that word used was in an SAE Paper written by UPS engineers when they were experimenting with "Fumagation". They were trying to inject ethanol into the intake manifold of a Diesel engine as a method of reducing diesel fuel consumption in their delivery trucks. It didn't work out but it was interesting. Stoichiometric values were not controllable in this application.

Al,  They are indeed and amazing that they do what their supposed to do pretty well.

Event Coordinators.....Let me know if this is something you'd be interested doing next year............Bruce

Bruce,

We could certainly do that either Friday evening or Saturday evening after the dinner and raffle. Those interested could stay after and listen to the seminar. Or, since there is nothing usually scheduled for Friday evening and the majority, if not all, of the people are there you could do it then.

Auto shop, wood shop, ag mechanics, welding, and home economics were all classes I enjoyed immensely starting in junior high and into high school.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when they took ROP or Regional Occupational Programs out of high school and decided every child needed to be prepped for college is when some of the problems we have now started. Once ROP was gone they also took out wood shop, metal shop, auto mechanics, ag mechanics, and a number of other trade based education services out of the schools. Not every kid needs to go to college nor should they go to college. For those that aren't familiar with ROP it was a program at my high school and others in my area that allowed juniors and seniors with enough credits or who were on track to graduate to work at businesses that participated in the program.  Students in the program took their required math or english classes then left school at about 10:00 am and didn't come back until 3:30 pm or when school ended. They worked in offices if they wanted to learn medical billing or other office support jobs, they work in auto body shops if that is what interested them, they worked on farms if they were ag majors, they worked in construction if that was a career interest, and so on. They learned welding, painting, plumbing, etc and most of them got jobs immediately after they graduated because they were already a trained and ready to work workforce.

Now we have a whole segment of society who can't change a light bulb and have no life skills. There is no better time to be in the trades right now because the majority of society can't live without the services of skilled tradespeople and it is costing them dearly. A friend of man who is the same age but obviously didn't learn any of life's skills told me he had to pay his gardener $35 to fix a broken sprinkler. I laughed at him and told him he needed to learn some "man skills".

Bruce, I did a seminar one year at Carlisle. I didn't get into theory, but I did explain the different circuits of a Weber IDF. Took it apart, showed them how to set the floats, and where all the parts go. Also told them all about the idle circuit and how to clean it.

I even wrote up an article about synching the carbs, which is posted here and on Spyderclub.com. Synching and linkage was my focus. After the seminar, I synched a couple cars for the owners. I hope they stayed that way.

It seemed to go pretty well, some of the guys really enjoyed it. I'm sure you'll have a good showing out West. Have fun.

In the little hamlet where I grew up in the 70s, we had metals, woodshop, and engine repair available for "shop-heads" who didn't fit elsewhere. I took every course offered.

Woodshop was the belle of the ball, and the "senior projects" were fine furniture. There was a contest every year, and it was typically a walnut grandfather clock that took it. The pieces were excellent, but like most furniture "of the time", and are probably sitting in somebody's grandparent's attic now. My project (a hutch) sat in my mom and dad's den for 20 years, until I told them it was OK to toss.

The engine classes were my favorite, especially when they morphed into "auto-tech" just before the dawn of the engine management revolution. Any kid with $500 worth of Craftsman tools and a space to work on a car could be a shade-tree mechanic, and we all were. The school had an oscilloscope, but we seldom used it, as the teacher (rightly) believed that we wouldn't have access to one in the future when we were working on cars in our garages and sheds.

The most neglected point of the industrial arts trident was the metals classes, machining in particular. We did a lot of stick welding, and even some foundry, but we never used a wire-feed welder. We did a lathe project, and used the mill a few times, but I think Mr. Shaidle thought it best not to risk the digits and eyes of his unruly charges. It was assumed that if one was to make a career as a machinist or tool and die maker, one would be trained by the great yellow father (Caterpillar Tractors Company. I can get around with a mill and lathe, but not getting a better handle on machine work is probably the only thing lacking in my technical training. CNC didn't really exist when we were going through, and the shop was dismantled 10 years after I was done.

It's a robotics lab now, and the school has won a world-wide competition for the robotics team, which is a function of having a bunch of Caterpillar engineers coaching. Those kids are all tracking (like my own son) to be hands-on engineers, and will never lack for employment.

Kids less inclined to buckle under the man's thumb (like a certain bullet-head I know) now pay more than $10K at a community college for stuff we learned for free starting in the 7th grade. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm glad I was born when I was. 

Robert.....The Friday evening looks like a good time. Usually after the cruise on Sat.  then the bar,  then dinner,  then the raffle and more bar, I think it would be too much. Sunday morning may be OK but many times people are ready to leave and get home early usually.  Anyway, my choice would be Friday at 6 to 9pm (and just a little bar). If this goes, I will post the lesson plan on here so attendees can see what will be covered. Some of you may be well advanced past what I will cover but maybe there is something for you as well, if only a refresher. The theory of any automotive function is well worth learning because it usually can applied to all makes and types.

Danny...right-on...information is power !  I have found that up to1.5 hr on theory is enough. The rest will be on a couple carbs, wide band EGA, and a little Q&A.   I think a whole evening could  be spent on carb sync. How did that part go ?  Luckily, My Suby now has TBI. No more sync stuff but now a whole nother ball game with a "black box"!

Just adding one more vote of support Bruce. This would be terrific!

Sounds like a great opportunity to learn. Hopefully I’ll be up and running with my Speedster by then.