Purchasing A New Speedster Turn-Key

I am trying to decide which Manufacturer to purchase a turn-key Speedster 356 from. I have gone to all the online sites, and have searched this site for information. I now have questions and need assistance from owners of Speedsters.

Are there builders I should steer clear of? I have read of some bad experiences with Vintage and Beck.

How much can I expect to spend for a turn-key Specialty Automotive Works, Intermiccanica, JPS, or Thunder Ranch with a medium sized engine and disc brakes? I understand that the price varies, but for a reasonably optioned out car, what would be a ballpark price?

I have other questions, but I hope someone will help with these.

I have looked at many of your pics and may write a private note, with questions about your Speedster. But I need as much help as I can get on this forum so that I can make a decision with as much information as I can get from owners.

SAW's prices are available on their website. Options and changes are priced as they would normally be priced by any of the manufacturers.

What I would steer clear of is thinking that any car you buy is going to be like buying a new Honda. These cars are handbuilt and will take some care and maintenance to keep running.

Intermeccanica has detailed pricing information on their site at www.intermeccanica.com where you will find significant detail on the company and products. As with Cobra replicas, you get what you pay for. The Vintage Speedsters are fantastic values and will provide lots of fun at a very reasonable buy-in. I owned a used Vintage prior to the purchase of my Intermeccanica and it was a great car. I decided I wanted another one after the sale of my Vintage, but with more refinement. Intermeccanica provides an unprecendented level of quality combined with proven engineering enhancements. I as many others on this site would recommend a used one prior to spending the extra money on a new replica. You will find that your specifications and preferences will likely change with ownership. This will allow you to spec-out a new one with experience and knowledge.

Good luck.

Bill - hit the MAKERS tab at the top of this page and visit the websites of the individual manufacturers. You should be able to get a "ballpark price" on a turnkey this way.
Each builder has its "niche," and reading through the posts in the VENDOR SPECIFIC section should help you figure out which car will suit your needs. The more you know - the better decision you'll make.
Most replica owners tend to be complimentary to their builders on a public forum (it reinforces their wise buying decision) so, it may take some digging to get unbiased, honest info on the various makers' pros and cons.
Bottom line? All the major manufacturers make pretty good turnkey cars. The variables are in the details, which have a direct effect on the price.

If you have the money,I would go to all the makers and test drive their cars,I think you would learn alot that way.I just bought a V.S...and like mentioned,these are not brand new cars...although they use alot of new parts...I've had to spend some time under coating small gaps here and there because of air leaks and water problems....I have a 1915 c.c. with about 85 h.p....I've had it up to 85 mph according to the speedometer. I thought a 1915 c.c. would have more power...and maybe that's good enough since it's a very light car as far as weight goes....Having the bigger 165 h.p. engines that other makers uses could be dangerous.One thing that sold me on the Vintage although it may not be an important thing to others is the way the top fits on when up.If you start looking at pictures you'll see what I mean.

"Having the bigger 165 h.p. engines that other makers uses could be dangerous"

Joe, don't fall into the salesman crap that these companies use to try and keep people from buying other manufacturers cars. There is nothing scary about 180hp in a car with proper brakes, steering, and suspension.

Even a Vintage car can be made safe, if you do the needed upgrades to the car to handle that kind of power range. Its been done. But not by Vintage, they just don't like doing anything that isn't a part of their assembly line scheme of things.

Henry at IM, builds a 911 based car that is just as safe or safer then a 85hp Vintage.

Well, that is as safe as driving around in fiberglass can be?

I for one have just about had it with the cutesy little manufacturers politics and "clever" little jabs by people.

Steven - if you (for one) are having trouble with all the politics and clever little jabs, I'd bet Vince could explain them all to you.

"Having the bigger 165 h.p. engines that other makers uses could be dangerous"

That really is a fair statement. Just as fair as saying "driving a 165hp motorcycle can be dangerous".
Driving a rear engine car with substantial hp (for the weight) is definetly not for the novice. Couple that with few safety features and yes, it can be dangerous.
Of course plenty of people ride 165hp motorcycles and drive big hp speedsters. It doesn't change the fact that it would be very unwise to take a person who has little experience in either and recommend that they "get all the hp they can afford".

Once again, I think John has given the best advice here.
-=theron

Joe; what you say about the apparent lack of power in the 1915 VS is true. Thing is that Kirk just pops in bigger cylinders and pistons and leaves it at that. You need to fine tune head flow, carburation and exhaust as well as valve lift (via ratio rockers if you don't want to split the case) to take advantage of the engine's full potential. That's what I've been doing and intend to do until I get it just right.

Theron's post is on the mark, some of the speedsters that have excessive HP will plow in a turn under acceleration and it's not fun to run out of hard pavement while headed for a corn field

Bill comes into the group and presents reasonable questions and then has to wade through all the on going silly crowing , don't be surprised if you hear the door slam shut on his way out

Steven.....your pill, take your pill!

Oh come on, if you guys can't see an obvious sales comment and ploy being regurgitated here then I just flat out give up.

These kind of statements made by people trying to sell their product over someone elses is so common in any sales area that it is laughable.


La La La...La...La La La

If you take my car and go from 0-60 in half the time as another car and then wreck, you are basically in the same exact wreck. If you need to stop from 60-0 and not hit something, it is about braking not horsepower. Of course horsepower can get you into trouble, but only in as much as your willing to use it to go faster. I don't think most people use horsepower to go faster, just better acceleration to the same speed.

Cornering is also the same thing, its about how fast your willing to enter the corner, not how much horsepower you have available if you choose to use it. Thats why its really about the driver and how they drive, not how much horsepower is under the hood.

Bill; While I don't own a Speedster yet I have been corresponding with several of the builders and spoke with John Steele (JPS), Henry Reisner (IM), and Carey Hines (Beck) at Carlisle, and I believe that any one of those three would deliver a fine product. In defense of Carey and Beck, the problems described on this forum seemed to me to be exclusively with a reseller. Carey has been very involved in and supportive of the hobby and I think he really cares about his product. They have a couple of interesting things in the works, and are worth checking out.

I appreciate the positive responses many of you provided. John L., your advice appears to be unbiased, thank you. Alan, thank you for maintaining perspective. I do understand the dynamics of group forums and so I expected some flak based on some of the threads I have been researching. But it's always nice to have some moderation. Thank you for providing that.

I may have alienated owners of Beck and Vintage Speedsters, and for that I apologize. What I am learning now is; beware of the middle man or reseller. The negative information on both builders appears to have a direct connection to buying through a Third Party. I suppose some resellers have a positive reputation, but I've learned that buying a Beck through certain parties may not be a good idea, and the same can be said for at least one Vintage reseller. Please correct me if my impression is off the mark. I am just making an observation based on the posts I have read.

This group answered my first question about pricing. I may contact a few owners to ask about prices in general. My goal is to be able to evaluate each Manufacturer, their product, their pricing structure, level of quality, and long term support. My end decision may be subjective, but I will strive to be objective as I evaluate Manufacturers and their Speedsters.

Your advice about purchasing a used Speedster is well taken. I do believe though that I will make a new purchase with a Speedster built to meet my desires and needs. I have some experience with Air Cooled cars, but I need to learn more about high performance Type-1 Engines.

Again, thank you for the advice so far. I will post new questions after I read some more items of interest in your archives.

The only problem with the Beck is not the car, the frame, or the interior, it is BSC, the company in Boulder. I do love the car, just wish I had had it built by Carey Hines, or done it myself, which I have done alot of to this point. All of these cars, at least the ones I have seen, have thier own special nitch, but to fly all over to drive each one, not sure even that would do the trick. List to everyone on here, then look in your wallet, and decide what you want.
by far the easiest.

Jerry

I wasn't making any sales pitches.....I personally totaled a 64" Coupe with a super 90 in it....it had alot of power...though I was young and dumb....I also had a friend who wrecked a 912...wasn't ready for the power.....I think that my V.S. isn't made for 165 h.p....it's too light...something to think about when considering Vintage......the only sales pitches I've heard are from those who put down the vw pans...which V.S. uses....I visited V.S. 4 times and I never heard a negative comment about the other speedster manufacturers from any one there......I was just trying to give the person looking to buy.... something to think about....I got to say that this evening I went for a drive on Hwy 199 a very curvy road and I was very impressed with the handling of my V.S.....It just hugged the road.....my wife ,who gets car sick couldn't believe that she wasn;t affected by the curves.....the shortened vw suspension impressed me as well as my wife.

Well Joe; Paul Harford has a VS powered by a Raby Type IV and that car is arguably the fastest Speedster on the road.

I haven't kept up with engines etc,...can you tell me what a Raby type IV is?...Also what trans does he use?Thanks.

I had the pleasure of joining Paul and others in a road trip last Spring and can certify that his Speedster hauls ash and managed to arrive in LA as safe as any other VS-IM-JPS-SAW-TR-Beck-CMC-FiberFab that was driven to Knotts. From what I've heard since then Paul has tweeked the carbs and the car runs so smooth in normal driving conditions that it almost sounds like a stocker, but the power comes on big when he hammers the throttle. Since this Spring I think Paul has driven his VS to LA for the Ventura show (see John Leader's pics) and up to the Parts Obsolete Camp Out. Sounds like to me that Paul has reliability, a mild mannered town car, a road trip car, and massive power any time he wants it. Pretty cool in my view.

Joe; Jake Raby is a well kown engine builder who's basically doing magic with Type IV VW engines (as used on later Buses, 411 cars and Porsche/VW 914 cars). These engines are more refined from a design standpoint and he's getting unreal power and reliability out of them. In fact, the latest trend in Europe (especially Germany) is to install reworked Type IV's into Bugs (especially Super Beetles) to give Porches and Ferraris a run for their money in the autobahns.

Where is Jake from???

Cleveland, GA