Hello all, still evaluating my engine and learning, any idea or recommendations where these should be connected to ? My American muscle cars would have a pvc breather or something? Can someone post a picture where they should connect to or part # for it … both sides appear to go nothing and cut??
thanks!!
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@356_2cool2slow Get a oil Breather Kit EMPI # 8544 or any other brand 
So, brain trust, do cars with relatively small engines, say 1776 and below, really need an oil breather? I've got one (or two) sitting on the shelf that I've never gotten around to installing.
I've always put a breather on bigger, higher horsepower engines, but haven't on the 1776 I built and can't say I see a whole lot of need for it.
Heresy?
Mike, my first VS Speedster was a '95 with the standard 1776 motor at the time. As a daily driver and long-distance vacation/get-away car I logged 85,000 trouble-free miles and later upped to 1835cc for an additional 15,000 trouble-free miles without an oil-breather (just the factory tube from the top of the oil filler down through the engine tin to below there engine case). 
Good question Mike I don’t know. I don’t know what size engine 356_2cool2slow has. But he was asking where to vent his valve covers. Maybe one of the Engine Gurus on here could answer that question.
Yep, that's my inclination, too. Thanks, Jim!
356_2cool2slow I think if you only vent it out fill tube you are going to have to plug the holes in your valve covers you have or get a pair that doesn’t have them.
@356_2cool2slow- What size engine and how high does it rev?
There are several types of oil breather boxes. CB Performance 1771 Oil Filler Breather Box Kit $80.
Or EMPI 8544 for $55 (other brands look same). Often placed above/behind fan shroud.
@Michael Pickett posted:So, brain trust, do cars with relatively small engines, say 1776 and below, really need an oil breather? I've got one (or two) sitting on the shelf that I've never gotten around to installing.
I've always put a breather on bigger, higher horsepower engines, but haven't on the 1776 I built and can't say I see a whole lot of need for it.
Heresy?
No, not heresy. I totally agree, Mike. If I had a 1776 and wanted to do a breather, there are only two. Gene Berg makes a 356-style oil filler/breather that bolts on the alternator stand and doesn't leak. Somebody else sells the same-ish item, I just can't recall who it is at the moment.
There is no reason to vent the valve covers on a 1600 or a 1776, or even a 1915 given a low rev limit, like 5000 or 5500.
I'd stay away from EMPI breathers. They are cheaply made and they leak. Why bolt CRAP onto your car? EMPI does have SOME quality parts, but these aren't among them.
I've never been wild about the dump tube, just like I've never been a fan of the slinger and pully-groove instead of a real crankcase seal. It's another example of the Sainted German Engineers running out of time, money, or will to design something well. It's exhibit "A" in the kind of price-point ("value") engineering that occurred in 1930s Germany, in the depths of the depression, under the watchful eye of Her Fuhrer. It's not designed to be the best, or even to work particularly well, just to be cheap and serviceable - kind of like a Model T carburetor and ignition system (which wasn't designed too much before the T1).
I've said before that the entire oil system in a Type 1 looks like it was engineered on a fine fall Friday, when the funding was running out, with Oktoberfest setting up in the square in front of the building where all the engineers were working, while the tubas were tuning up and the Frauleins were setting up the biergarten.
"It'll be fine, Fritz. Let's party".
The crankcases on these engines are so tiny, and the swept area so big, that even a 1776 is likely to create enough crankcase pressure to push oil. Obviously, the answer is a better ring seal in the cylinders, but as they are imperfectly cooled, thin, and cheaply made - it's probably a good idea to run way better rings than most VW guys do.
What should we run? That's the $64K question. There are guys who swear by Total-Seal rings, and guys who swear AT Total-Seal rings. John Connolly likes Deeves rings. I'm trying a Deeves ring set with a Total-Seal second in the 2234 I can't seem to get installed due to trying to build a shop. I'm also trying AA thickwall 92s, which may or may not stay round as they heat up.
Regardless, the higher the compression and the larger the engine, the more crankcase breathing is going to be a consideration. Windage bothered me enough that I went to a dry-sump setup. There are certainly less extreme solutions.
I'm pretty sure @Michael Pickett already knows all of this, and has probably forgotten more than I know anyhow. But for the rest of us poor slobs, a good ring break-in is pretty important. Opinions vary wildly on how to best accomplish this, but choose your favorite folklore and common-knowledge solution, and run with it.
Stan: we agree on a bunch of things. The crankcase breathing system of the "sainted engineers" may not be one of them. The type 1 was designed to be cheap and easily serviceable. The original engine was 1000cc, right? And the oil was to be changed OFTEN. I'm thinking environmental concerns were non-existent.
Back then, total loss oiling was still being used, so a hose over the side was an improvement.
Anyway, Kaddie Shack sells the 356 style breather for $150. Berg's is around $200.
P.S.: I use Mahle top and oil rings and Total Seal #2 compression. I've had almost instant ring seal using the Total Seal ring seating powder, rubbing it well into the cylinder walls. I'll have to do a leakdown test on my Spyder this spring, the engine is fully broken in after a few thousand miles.
@DannyP posted:Stan: we agree on a bunch of things. The crankcase breathing system of the "sainted engineers" may not be one of them. The type 1 was designed to be cheap and easily serviceable. The original engine was 1000cc, right? And the oil was to be changed OFTEN. I'm thinking environmental concerns were non-existent.
Back then, total loss oiling was still being used, so a hose over the side was an improvement.
Hey, we can't agree on EVERYTHING, right? People would talk. The original tiny size of the engine was why it wasn't terrible in 193X.
I don't hate the dump tube like I hate the slinger and the spring bypass setup, but it's really, really rude. People hate oil leaks, and there's one that's built right in - it drips oil when it's working perfectly.
None of us have 1000 cc engines, and a 1776 has 1.75x the swept area of that original lump. Throw in more compression and thinner cylinders (90.5s are thinner than the 85.5s in a stock 1600) and something that was fine in 193X for a 1000 cc engine gets to be pretty "iffy" in a 1776 today.
A legit PCV would be awesome.
Does an engine need a breather- as said, it depends. Even a small engine, if it revs higher, can benefit from additional venting. I once built and ran (in my street Cal Look bug) a 1750 (only 90 mm piston/cylinder sets were available here in Canada in the late '70's) that went to 6500 rpm with power and without the breather it would leak oil out the slinger/back of the crank in a fine mist all over the engine compartment at highway speeds. The only thing available at the time was the typical cheap little rectangular box that leaked as well but at least it just dripped. There is so little free volume inside a VW engine case that even the addition of counterweights (which push more air) on a stock stroke crankshaft along with higher revs can create venting problems.
@356_2cool2slow- Since you posted pics of a stock 1600 in your other thread I'm assuming that's the engine you're running. It doesn't really need the extra venting; cap off the fittings on the valve covers or K&N makes some little breather/filters that you could add.
@Former Member- (my apologies dude- I don't remember your first name- I wish people would include it in their screen name)- I really like that breather you posted the pic of- it has some volume to it, which is what is needed to slow down the fumes enough so the oil can fall out of suspension. Those cheap little boxes have never been more than a couple inches high- enough to hold some foam and as mentioned, they always leaked. Another trick when adding a breather- use bigger hose (I seem to remember Gordon having great success with 5/8" id hose) to add more volume- it will slow the vented mist down and the oil will already be falling out of suspension and running back to the engine BEFORE it ends up in the breather. And yeah, it may be a little more money for fittings to make it work, but so totally worth it.
And Stan, you truly are quite the word-smith; when your imagination kicks in you do come up with some wonderful stuff (your eloquence always amazes me!), but I'm leaning more on Danny's side here- our beloved VW engineers were working to a price point (hey, it was an economy car) and given the times, what they came up with was a perfectly workable solution. The things we do with this platform (and the displacement and power we get out of it)- those engineers never dreamed of and I think it would astound them. I have this vision of transporting via time travel one of the original engineers to now, showing him a Beetle running a 9 second quarter mile and taking him for a ride in a healthy 2 liter powered Beetle or Speedster (your car would be perfect for this!)- what do you think his reaction would be?
The look on his face would be priceless- I'm guessing shock and joy...
Guys- any time you push something further it (almost always) creates new problems not contemplated in the original design, hence we are now the engineers in charge. Al
@ALB Hey my first name is Arden. And that pic I posted is the one in my Superwide.
Thanks for replies.. My name is Chris . @ALB Car was just acquired so I guess I'll see this spring what bugs.. if any I have ( hoping none other then an oil leak I can't find yet. hahaha.. So engineering something may be last resort but make it fun. After doing some digging here is the VIN on my block so any help identifying would be great.
I guess i have a 1500 model? AE513386
Engine codes
It’s always interesting to know what engine’s in your Beetle and you can check by looking at the prefix. Engine number prefixes were first used in 1965 with the introduction of the 1300, with other Beetle numbers as follows:
A = 1200 30bhp
D = 1200 34bhp
E = 1300 37bhp
F = 1300 40bhp
H = 1500 44bhp
L = 1500 40bhp
AB = 1300 44bhp
AC = 1300 40bhp
AD = 1600 50bhp
AE = 1600 48bhp (US)
Chris: The original VIN or serial number stamped on the engine case is usually of little to no help in figuring out displacement.
Why?
Because engine cases got recycled into newer engines, often with larger displacement, so you don't know what they used when they put it together.
The only ways to truly know what you got is (1.) get a mirror and look at the back side of the engine fan shroud to see if there is a number written on there with a shop crayon. If so, you probably have a Vintage speedster and that it the displacement.
(2.) If nothing shows up, the only other way is to do an engine tear down and measure things to figure it out.
Also, your engine obviously had a breather system of some sort on there at tone time - Don't know why it's not all there now. Danny mentioned a couple of good sources and CB Performance has a few more:
https://www.cbperformance.com/...ccessories-s/259.htm
And so does Aircooled.net
@DannyP posted:There is no reason to vent the valve covers on a 1600 or a 1776, or even a 1915 given a low rev limit, like 5000 or 5500.
As with everything else Air Cooled, there’s a 100+ page thread on TheSamba about crankcase ventilation. The general vibe I got was that for smaller engines, venting the VCs can actually be detrimental because it impedes the oil flow back down the pushrod tubes. (Especially if suction is being created by “venting” them to a carb)
“I'd stay away from EMPI breathers. They are cheaply made and they leak. Why bolt CRAP onto your car?”
Couldn't agree more.
Gordon is probably on the money here about engine size. Sometimes people do stuff a stocker in there though.
You don't have to do a complete teardown to find out the size. You could pull off one head, then measure the bore and stroke. While you're at it, you could also CC the heads and record the valve sizes. You'll need new pushrod tubes(maybe) but definitely new pushrod tube seals. Maybe a valve cover gasket and another gasket for the intake manifold(s).
@DannyP posted:No, not heresy. I totally agree, Mike. If I had a 1776 and wanted to do a breather, there are only two. Gene Berg makes a 356-style oil filler/breather that bolts on the alternator stand and doesn't leak. Somebody else sells the same-ish item, I just can't recall who it is at the moment.
There is no reason to vent the valve covers on a 1600 or a 1776, or even a 1915 given a low rev limit, like 5000 or 5500.
I'd stay away from EMPI breathers. They are cheaply made and they leak. Why bolt CRAP onto your car? EMPI does have SOME quality parts, but these aren't among them.
For $50 more I suggest go with the Gene Berg; have had mine for over 15 years.
Your valve cover hose may vent to a breather hidden by the fan/cooling shroud or maybe into carb air cleaners directly (if so add a breather or you'll blow blue smoke). Or even a Y and then into oil filler tube.
Show us a picture of the top of your engine.
@dlearl476 posted:As with everything else Air Cooled, there’s a 100+ page thread on TheSamba about crankcase ventilation. The general vibe I got was that for smaller engines, venting the VCs can actually be detrimental because it impedes the oil flow back down the pushrod tubes. (Especially if suction is being created by “venting” them to a carb)
“I'd stay away from EMPI breathers. They are cheaply made and they leak. Why bolt CRAP onto your car?”
Couldn't agree more.
It will happen with bigger engines too- what I think is happening- at higher rpm's air travelling up the small diameter (3/8") vent tubing is creating a bit of a vacuum in the rocker areas with the higher air pressure in the crankase preventing the oil from returning to the sump area. The larger diameter breather tubing slows down the 'rush of air' out of the valve covers, allowing the oil mist to fall out of suspension before ending up in the breather box- and perhaps helping with allowing the oil to travel back down the pushrod tubes to the sump?
When adding a counterweighted crankshaft (even stock stroke) I wonder if enlarging the air passages so the air volume in the crankase has an easier time moving back/forth from front to back would be beneficial- it definitely is with larger high rpm stroker engines, with them actually gaining a hp or 2. Remember, anything larger than 2 liters has a lot more volume behind (or underneath) the pistons now moving around inside the case.
It’s been a while since I read the thread, and I really didn’t pay much attention because my motor is <2L (AFAIK), but IIRC it was supposed the added volume/pressure of air moving in the case forcing oil out the VC gasket was cited as the reason for venting the VCs.
It really didn’t apply to me. I was just researching to see if a catch can would be sufficient to vent my case without dumping oil mist into one of my carbs.
I have a 5/8” line coming from my fuel pump block off and a 7/16” line coming from my filler neck. It seems to be sufficient because I have no problem with oil leaks. (Except for my sump plate.) 
A few things help that I've found:
Tight rings and cylinders go a long way to controlling breather problems. A long, long way.
I don't have a distributor, so I use the distributor hole to run to my breather with a 3/4" I.D. hose. The 911 fan mount blocks the fuel pump and breather tower, it's a big machined aluminum plate. The plate has a measly 3/8" I.D. breather tube from the gen/alt stand area. I plugged that. I also have each valve cover vented with AN8 to my home-made breather.
Dry sump REALLY helps. The 52mm suction side evacuates the crankcase beautifully.
I also have a sand seal and cut the case for the dual-lip Berg seal. I bought the tool, and it was totally worth it.
I ran two more hoses. One from the top of the dry sump tank, and one from the top of my home-made breather. Both go to a medium-size aftermarket breather.
So far it works very well on my 2165cc with 10.2:1 compression and a 6700 redline.
Regarding the original post: In CA if you are going for smog exempt SB-100 (or presumably ever going before the BAR):
Regardless of engine displacement, the ONLY breather option you have:
If you have "enhanced breathing" you will have to remove it. All of it. Like pictured in the original post, you will have to cut the breather hoses at the valve covers and plug the holes. You will have to remove the pretty aftermarket oil filler neck and all realm of enhanced or non-stock breather boxes and related plumbing.
You will have to install a stock 1600 oil filler neck, including vent nipple on top and "down tube".
You will have to install a vent hose between the vent nipple on the oil filler neck and carburetor intake air filter.
You will have to install a "duck bill" PCV on the bottom of the down tube, NOT a piece of rubber hose as pictured by Musbjim.
This is the only breather configuration that is allowed with your SB-100 certification. Changing it after-the-fact is just as illegal as pulling the approved smog stuff off a 2020 Honda Civic.
Of course, once certified by BAR what you do next is . . . . . 
The point is, there may be a technical reason the valve cover vents in the original post's pictures are plugged (which is exactly the same technique I used during SB-100 BAR inspection). And before installing the enhanced aftermarket breathing apparatus and methods many of us know of and agree on, perhaps the original poster should consider if his circumstances prudently fit those recommendations.
Is he ever confronted with smog inspections?
Will there ever be a chance he'll be called on the carpet for a bait-and-switch fraudulent smog certification?
Now, different states all do things differently. This is just the CA example. This thread caught my eye because I've seen plugged valve covers like that before, on my engine, a heavy breathing 2332, just prior to heading off to BAR. (Stayed under 3000 rpm all the way there and back. )
@RS-60 mark posted:Regarding the original post: In CA if you are going for smog exempt SB-100 (or presumably ever going before the BAR):
Regardless of engine displacement, the ONLY breather option you have:
If you have "enhanced breathing" you will have to remove it. All of it. Like pictured in the original post, you will have to cut the breather hoses at the valve covers and plug the holes. You will have to remove the pretty aftermarket oil filler neck and all realm of enhanced or non-stock breather boxes and related plumbing.
You will have to install a stock 1600 oil filler neck, including vent nipple on top and "down tube".
You will have to install a vent hose between the vent nipple on the oil filler neck and carburetor intake air filter.
You will have to install a "duck bill" PCV on the bottom of the down tube, NOT a piece of rubber hose as pictured by Musbjim.
This is the only breather configuration that is allowed with your SB-100 certification. Changing it after-the-fact is just as illegal as pulling the approved smog stuff off a 2020 Honda Civic.
Of course, once certified by BAR what you do next is . . . . .
The point is, there may be a technical reason the valve cover vents in the original post's pictures are plugged (which is exactly the same technique I used during SB-100 BAR inspection). And before installing the enhanced aftermarket breathing apparatus and methods many of us know of and agree on, perhaps the original poster should consider if his circumstances prudently fit those recommendations.
Is he ever confronted with smog inspections?
Will there ever be a chance he'll be called on the carpet for a bait-and-switch fraudulent smog certification?
Now, different states all do things differently. This is just the CA example. This thread caught my eye because I've seen plugged valve covers like that before, on my engine, a heavy breathing 2332, just prior to heading off to BAR. (Stayed under 3000 rpm all the way there and back. )
So I picked this 356 from California so I’m assuming it was adjusted to pass the strict cA inspections , it’s now in New York with me and we only have a safety inspection and emissions is eliminated.
i think I’ll just install those small breathers from jbugs site that look like small K&N style.
@356_2cool2slow posted:i think I’ll just install those small breathers from jbugs site that look like small K&N style.
FWIW, depending on the health of your motor and the state of your engine compartment tin, you risk misting your under carriage/engine compartment with oil by doing that.
The purpose of breather boxes and catch cans is to allow the oil to come out of suspension and collect somewhere.
Since I didn’t want to vent mine into a carb, I have an exit hose from my can out the bottom of my car, after it’s passed through my can (loosely) filled with stainless ChoreGirls to collect the oil.
@356_2cool2slow posted:So I picked this 356 from California so I’m assuming it was adjusted to pass the strict cA inspections , it’s now in New York with me and we only have a safety inspection and emissions is eliminated.
i think I’ll just install those small breathers from jbugs site that look like small K&N style.
Mount it high on the other side of the firewall and run a 3/4" hose (for more volume to slow the air movement down) and I'm guessing most, if not all of the oil mist will have fallen out of suspension and will be running back down the hose into the valve cover. Is there a matching fitting on the other valve cover?
@ALB posted:Mount it high on the other side of the firewall and run a 3/4" hose (for more volume to slow the air movement down) and I'm guessing most, if not all of the oil mist will have fallen out of suspension and will be running back down the hose into the valve cover. Is there a matching fitting on the other valve cover?
Hi , so it appears both sides have the same plug. Ironically I see small spatters of oil below the belt pan but could be another issue .. oddly seems like oil is coming out of the dipstick?? Is this even possible. ( all my other cars are American muscle so this is my 1st German car )
chris
@dlearl476 posted:FWIW, depending on the health of your motor and the state of your engine compartment tin, you risk misting your under carriage/engine compartment with oil by doing that.
The purpose of breather boxes and catch cans is to allow the oil to come out of suspension and collect somewhere.
Since I didn’t want to vent mine into a carb, I have an exit hose from my can out the bottom of my car, after it’s passed through my can (loosely) filled with stainless ChoreGirls to collect the oil.
So just to verify , you have both valve cover vented routed to this box, it becomes and oil catch and has to be empyted how ofter? Also the oil input has a spout to the ground.. keep this also?
@RS-60 mark posted:Regarding the original post: In CA if you are going for smog exempt SB-100 (or presumably ever going before the BAR):
Regardless of engine displacement, the ONLY breather option you have:
If you have "enhanced breathing" you will have to remove it. All of it. Like pictured in the original post, you will have to cut the breather hoses at the valve covers and plug the holes. You will have to remove the pretty aftermarket oil filler neck and all realm of enhanced or non-stock breather boxes and related plumbing.
You will have to install a stock 1600 oil filler neck, including vent nipple on top and "down tube".
You will have to install a vent hose between the vent nipple on the oil filler neck and carburetor intake air filter.
You will have to install a "duck bill" PCV on the bottom of the down tube, NOT a piece of rubber hose as pictured by Musbjim.
This is the only breather configuration that is allowed with your SB-100 certification. Changing it after-the-fact is just as illegal as pulling the approved smog stuff off a 2020 Honda Civic.
Of course, once certified by BAR what you do next is . . . . .
The point is, there may be a technical reason the valve cover vents in the original post's pictures are plugged (which is exactly the same technique I used during SB-100 BAR inspection). And before installing the enhanced aftermarket breathing apparatus and methods many of us know of and agree on, perhaps the original poster should consider if his circumstances prudently fit those recommendations.
Is he ever confronted with smog inspections?
Will there ever be a chance he'll be called on the carpet for a bait-and-switch fraudulent smog certification?
Now, different states all do things differently. This is just the CA example. This thread caught my eye because I've seen plugged valve covers like that before, on my engine, a heavy breathing 2332, just prior to heading off to BAR. (Stayed under 3000 rpm all the way there and back. )
As I’m new to this motor, if i sent you a picture of my 1600, you can tell if its aftermarket? I just want a setup that is clean, runs well and doesn’t leak lol
Almost 99% it is aftermarket. VW factory motors are very rare these days because they’ve been out of production since 2003 and will get even more rare as time goes on.
@356_2cool2slow posted:So just to verify , you have both valve cover vented routed to this box, it becomes and oil catch and has to be empyted how ofter? Also the oil input has a spout to the ground.. keep this also?
No. I have a small motor, so after reading the aforementioned thread on TheSamba I deemed venting the VC wasn’t needed.
I have a 5/8” hose that comes from my fuel pump block off plate, and a 7/16” hose coming from my oil filler neck. I replaced the factory filler with an aftermarket one, so I don’t have the OEM drain tube.
In the 2 years since I installed it, I have yet to see any oil read in the sight glass, which I take as a good sign. Hence, no draining.
@356_2cool2slow posted:As I’m new to this motor, if i sent you a picture of my 1600, you can tell if its aftermarket? I just want a setup that is clean, runs well and doesn’t leak lol
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Chris. Doesn't leak oil? We're plastic car/VW engine specialists, not miracle workers. Clean and runs well is within the realm of possibility. No oil leaks only come to the truly blessed.
@Michael Pickett posted:Whoa, whoa, whoa, Chris. Doesn't leak oil? We're plastic car/VW engine specialists, not miracle workers. Clean and runs well is within the realm of possibility. No oil leaks only come to the truly blessed.
If I didn’t have a few oil spots on the garage floor, I’d worry I was out of oil.
I generally have three. One about the size of a half-dollar under my sump plate, and a dime-sized one under each valve cover.
At $17.99, these are a bargain compared to an engine rebuild.
@Michael Pickett posted:Whoa, whoa, whoa, Chris. Doesn't leak oil? We're plastic car/VW engine specialists, not miracle workers. Clean and runs well is within the realm of possibility. No oil leaks only come to the truly blessed.
All my other hot rod American cars leak…lol why would i think this would be different ha
