Quartz heater

it's still there and I'll mention to the buyer if he wants he can add in a pwr on /off switch in line on the hot side and mount it out of sight under the dash.

Troy and Alan
Did you guys connect to ignition switch? I got mine yesterday and have started to install but I think I would like to wire into the ignition switch so I don't have to remember to turn it off separately. It should take the battery down in a hurry. If you did, how do you do it?

No. I wired it directly to the battery and the very first time I used it I forgot to turn it off! DEAD BATTERY.

I'm not sure if the typical ignition switch can handle that much current. Alan and others will know.

The heater needs to be wired directly ( with the supplied circuit breaker) to the battery or starter + post only....I used a 6ga. wire.

Rob,

Use an on-off relay. The ignition switch will only be used to turn the relay on or off, the relay is the one that will handle the on and off electricity from the battery. This set up is usually used for driving lights as it draws a lot of electricity. This way you will not burn your ignition switch. Sorry I can't give the specific relay, maybe somebody can point out the specifics.

Eddy

Thanks Eddy. Help on relay sources from others would be appreciated as well as wiring the relay.

Rob -

Here is a link for a basic relay wiring schematic to run driving lights. In the drawing, picture your heater (instead of lights) and use the wire gauge recommended by Alan (drclock). You can use a smaller gauge wire from the relay (30 amp relay) to the switch you intend to use to activate the heater.

http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/bosch/foglites.htm

Peace - Out!

Thanks to all
I emailed Kenan Noble of DC Thermal for advice and these are his responses:

"If you can find a relay that will handle 45-50 amps that is what you need to use. It needs a 12 volt coil.
An automotive store would probably have a relay that would work.

Wiring is as follows:
The + coil would need to be wired to the ignition or switch.
The - coil to a ground.
The Common to the battery or power source.
The NO or normally open on the relay to the heater."

I then asked him if other customers had asked the same question and this was his response:

"Most get a digital Temperature controller which allows you to set the temperature and the heater will cycle
on and off. It is wired to the ignition and goes off with the key."

Thanks to all for sending your expertise
Rob

Here are a few shots of the installed DC Thermal heater, SA12-4000. It is not visible from the driver's position and I mounted it such that it is angled down towards ones thighs. The relay is mounted just to the left of the heater. Wiring is from battery to fuse in trunk, along left side of car to the relay.

Any one using the vented version?

In reading comments since August 2011 on quartz and electrical type heaters for Speedsters, there seems to be a void of useful technical information before making the investment.

An engineering approach might be to first establish the approximate heating requirement. From an automotive engineer resource, a typical car requires about 15,000 btu/hr of heat and 24,000 btu/hr of cooling. Typical is defined as a medium-sized sedan with weather stripping, exposed window glass, minimal unplugged penetrations (holes), and appropriate insulation.

Even the best sealed Speedster is something like driving around in a typical sedan with a window partially rolled down. A typical sedan also does not have a piece of cloth over your head shielding you from 60 mph, 25 degree (or colder) air. Let's now see how the VW-based Speedster can benefit from these data.

The electrical system in the Beetle or a Speedster is 12 volts and the typical generator or alternator is about 30 amps. But, let's say you spring for a 50-amp alternator to help the process. That would give you a maximum of 600 watts of power. Siphon off maybe 200 watts to run your gauges, radio, lights, ignition, alternator exciter, charge the battery, and other incidentals and that leaves you with 400 watts to heat the car. A typical hair dryer is 1200 watts. So, are you going to be able to heat your Speedster with one third of a hair dryer?

Well, here is my take. One btu/hr = 0.293 watts (say 0.3) and 15,000 btu/hr equals 4,500 watts. It occurs to me that you might be short 4000 watts since you only have 400 watts available. Don't forget that the 15,000 btu/hr was for a typical sedan not an unsealed convertible. Therefore, the tighter and better insulated the car, the further your 400 watts will go.

Perhaps this is why VW and Porsche did not put electrical heaters in their cars. Am I missing something here?

I'd recommend that you do as I have Charles, and give it up and enjoy the show.

I went on at length about this some time back (a couple of years ago)-- about how much current an electric heater would draw and how much heat would be produced. Nobody cared. There seems to be no limit to people's optimism regarding electric heat, despite the fact that no manufacturer (of any type of motor vehicle) ever used it as the sole source of heat, and that doing it properly would require wires about as big as your thumb (at 12v, that many watts requires a lot of current. Ohm's law is so pesky sometimes).

Advocates of these heaters could make them work by strapping a 5K generator to the luggage rack connected to a decently sized electric heater in the cabin. then they could simply start it up when they needed heat. It might be the simple, elegant solution everybody is pining for.

It would appear the old adage that you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink remains valid.

I have found that the most effective way to provide heat in a Speedster is to live in Charleston. Seldom has it failed to provide more than enough warmth in my car - sometimes much more than enough.

I thank all of you gentlemen for the amount of thought and effort put into this and I'm in no way burying my head in the sand over the limits of an electric heater in what is essentially an open-aired VW.

I was thinking for defogging only as I haven't ever been cold driving in So-Cal, just at night when getting in the Speedster to get home the windscreen is fogged. My Speedy doesn't have a top(probably never will)
so condensation accumulates and I haven't had the greatest success with RainX anti-fog. I also have to cut the vents on the dash for defrost and thought the vented version would suffice as the cost of new quality heater boxes and the trouble of running control levers would offset the quartz heater cost.

As far as I've read the vented heater was just out and not experienced by anyone here yet so I asked.

It's quite true that you just can't produce enough wattage to run an electric heater capable of warming up the cockpit of a speedster. Obviously, one can add an extra layer of clothing. Heated seats can be helpful to those who can withstand the discomfort I experience when my ass gets hot.
I have an electric heater in my car that can take the edge off when the top is up and the outside temps are in the mild 40s, but I think it's more of a psychological edge. My wife swears by the electric blanket I keep in the car.
I've tried to think of ways I could add heat at a reasonable cost without hard-scape modifications. I think I'm going to try a propane catalytic heater. They are very efficient and quite inexpensive to purchase and the fuel is cheap. This particular model is relatively small, I just have to figure the best way to mount it. Of course, I would consider it for temporary use and would not leave it in the car. It also doesn't address the defrost issue but I think it's worth investigating.

http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-PerfecTemp-Catalytic-InstaStart-Technology/dp/B0009PUQW8/ref=pd_sim_sg_1

The one I installed works great. If installed with a relay there is no worry about draining the battery. I my opinion there would be plenty of flow for defrosting.

Interesting idea Terry,
One might make a snap in base holder on the back seat area,they say its good for tents and unless your speedy is uber air-sealed (unlikely) carbon monoxide poisoning isn't likely. I read a couple of sq.inches of venting per 1000 btu's is sufficient. Looks like they can be mounted upside down or in your case at an angle projected forward from the rear.
I wouldn't sleep with it on tho.

It would be fairly easy to mount the propane cannister remotely, freeing up space under the dash.
They advertise that the heater can be used for tents - a pretty good description for the cockpit of a speedster, I think. ;-)

I had one of these for camping- I won it in a raffle. It's bigger than it looks, but throws some serious heat. It's a good idea, if you have the space.

Cockpit of a Speedster= tent
I was going to say that!Doh!

beginning to explore using bilge blowers to tie into tubing flowing from the heater boxes forward to the vents in the cabin. Anyone have experience with blowers for this application?

 

Bob

I was considering these:

 

http://www.iboats.com/Detmar-T...ers/dm/view_id.38746 

 

It would be nice to be able to switch them using the unused lever next to the parking brake.

The Beck folks offer bilge blowers as an option, which I have.  The long pathway for the air plus the less-than-perfect actuation of the valves in the heater boxes means the amount of heat delivered is still kinda low.  An improved valve mechanism, and insulated ducting would probably work wonders.

I have the same setup as Lane.  To cut the losses, I'm having Carey route the heat directly through the rear bulkheads next to the seats.  I will lose defrost, but I hope the heat improvement is worth it.  I'll know in 54 days :-).

Propane heaters---I have chased a leak(s!) in a popup camper and after each iteration used the small Colman heater to dry it out before the next attempt.  It produces a lot of heat and I think it is probably overkill for a speedsters cramped interior.

Something like this?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Colema...13386979&vxp=mtr

Terry, I think the one I have is even smaller at 1500 BTUs

Hello Lane, Can you estimate what percentage of improvement your blowers supply over the tubing? Goofy question, I know. Thanks,

 

Bob

Not really.  I have trouble with the flap valves in the heater box not opening fully, and without that the heat is kinda wispy.  If I had it to do over I think I'd skip heater boxes altogether and go with the ceramic (quartz?) heater.  Really I need it more for defogging than anything else,.  The climate here doesn't get very cold, but it is very damp.

thanks, Lane

 

I, too, am wanting more defrost than total cabin heat.

 

Bob