Does a Subaru engine hang too much weight too far aft?
I like the idea of a mid engine car like SAS, but I'm not patient enough to get on his waiting list.
I'm considering a Beck subi build, but I'm concerned about having too much weight too far aft.
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Unless your auto crossing the difference is negligible. The Subaru configuration will be adding a little weight throughout the car with water plumbing and the radiator in the front .
Stick with a 4 cyl Subbie (vs 6) and it doesn't add that much weight. Go with larger gas tank and battery in front and you're adding 75# in nose to compensate - along with radiator and fans.
Thanks for the reply, Marty. Any recommendation for a donor year/model?
Good points, Wolfgang! My daughters both have Foresters, and I am always surprised at the torque the Subaru has for a 4 cylinder... And a nice little growell, too 
"I like the idea of a mid engine car like SAS, but I'm not patient enough to get on his waiting list."
You may need more than patience if you were to go that route.
You could read for days on what models and what years. I looked into it just out of curosity. I had a '96 Outback that got hit hadr in rear in front of my house - Perps insurance totaled it and let me keep carcass - BUT wife chimed in "you don't need another project." It was a DOHC 2.5L which apparently had issues with heads and with the dual cams was pain to work on. The EJ22 is a popular transplant - its SOHC but an older engine. EJ25 is newer SOHC alternative. Turbos can be used but they take extra space and increase cooling challenge. Seems cost issues are - adapter/flywheel ($600), exhaust, radiator/cooling, shortened oil pan, and the biog one the modified wiring harness due to ECU ($600). And maybe a transaxle upgrade if you like doing burn outs!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/for...10&view=previous
http://forums.aussieveedubbers...wtopic.php?tid=77027
http://bb.bbboy.net/vwengineco...ns-viewforum?forum=3
http://www.rjes.com/index.html
Carey from Beck has it down to a science now. He uses a narrow range of Subaru 2.5 engines. I highly recommend you go visit the shop if possible
I think Carey builds with a standard 2006 SOHC. After that, engine controls get too complicated. That's what's going in my Beck this winter. He's doing a before & after weight. In addition to the motor & trans, the oil cooler, breather box, & full-size spare are coming out (radiator is packaged where the spare goes). Really curious to find out the delta.
Jethro posted:I like the idea of a mid engine car like SAS, but I'm not patient enough to get on his waiting list.
After all that's been written, don't even think about it! I'm sending someone over to slap some sense into you right now...
I'm well aware of the issues with SAS, thanks!
I'm only about a 4 hour drive from Beck. And he is about a half hour from Culver Military Academy, where I attended high school.
I'm going to visit them sometime in the next month.
Well if your going to go to the expense of the subie, I would want a 2.5L 4 cyl at a minimum (175hp-200hpNA). And if you use the mid engine setup of the SAS does that not reduce your back seat space ? If you're height challenged I would want to sit in one before I jumped in with reduced seat room.
FYI, a 3.0L subie six is 65-75 lbs heavier than a 4 cyl and under 2 inches of size difference. It can fit in a K Ghia easily why not in a 356? (over 200hp and no turbo sudden launch) Ray
Jethro posted:I'm well aware of the issues with SAS, thanks!
Glad to hear it Jethro! I was just checkin'...
I am 6'2" and close to 300 pounds... I might have a hard time with any small car!
I can't fit in a Miata... not enough head room, but a Z-4 is fine.
Well, I am not far from you but I also have a long torso so I had my builder change my seats from Roadster to Recaro's and clearance the body to allow the seat to recline.
I can now get into my ROADSTER with the top up and I can sit with my head BELOW the windshield, now my right seater says she cannot see over the dash board... you can't please em all
I am also long waisted with short legs. When I sit next to my 6'5" friend, it looks like he is only an inch taller than I am.
I'm looking forward to visiting Beck.
Jethro, is that Bodine? Just kidding As far as engine choice you need to research the ECU and wiring harness you will need.... this will make the engine and year selection for you or as David Stroud did he used a carb for his 2.2L. Check out the subaru conversion web info.
I'm in Central Ohio.
Actually, Jethro is a reference to Bodine... A nickname I got at My first job because I was pretty "small town county boy" compared to all the uppity guys from Ivy League schools.
I root for that team up north every game they play except the Buckeyes!
my high school sweetheart was from Plymouth.
The weight difference between a stock 2.2/2.5 sohc Subaru and a Type 1 aluminum block, dual-carb VW is about 40 pounds over the rear. Figure another 30-40 pounds elsewhere--mostly forward*--for the radiator and etc. The Suby is lighter than a Type 4.
The engines to have are:
1. 1992-1995 2.2. (Easiest install, non-interference valve train)
2. 1996-1998 2.2 (mostly the same, but an interference valve train. Slightly more power.
3. Later 2.5 with 2.2 sohc heads and intake (the so-called "Frankenmotor," which, with a set of cams and a step larger injectors will make about 180 hp** at the crank.
The dohc engines are a little wider and a little heavier--not a problem unless your frame rails make it so. And a lot of earlier and pan-based Speedsters may present a fitment issue.
As advised above, if you've got the dough, Carey is a very well-respected builder who knows way, waaay more than me or just about anyone else here who might chime in.
*IMHO: rear-mounted radiator schemes on these cars are a good way to make a complicated mess from what would otherwise be simple and functional.
**IMHO: if you need more than 180 hp you're going to make yourself some expensive engineering challenges. Turbos work great but make a lot of heat, and getting rid of the heat quickly becomes difficult. Not impossible...but difficult. The cost/hp curve in these cars gets pretty steep once you get over 180 hp.
Like Ed pointed out over 180 hp takes expensive engineering changes to be safe and reliable. The OEM VW pan, suspension, brakes, and trans were designed to handle 60 horse power. Bolt on stuff (disc brakes, trans straps, anti-sway bars, etc) can make it handle 130 maybe 160 hp. Look at an IM, it gets a 911 suspension along with moving stuff around in a custom tube frame.
Stop it, you guys are getting me all exited for Spring and it's a long way away.
How cool would it be to have a Porsche badge on that cover!!!???
And what Ed and Greg said is so true. The cost of Turbo to run cool and safe is steep. Mine worked flawlessly but I was only able to put on about 500-600 miles before storage. I called the build sophisticated but Henry from IM corrected me and called it complicated, LOL
So far he is a genius because it all works well.
Marty Grzynkowicz posted:So far he is a genius because it all works well.
I think what you meant to say was, "so far it works perfectly, because he is a genius".
Henry Reisner is the man.
I have exchanged emails with Carey Hines. They use 06 and 07 Impreza motors with a stock ECU, ODB-II diagnostic port and electric throttle.
I believe that is their EJ253 motor, 175hp sohc
