Question- engine/transmission mounts

@Lfepardo asked: "Should I be looking for rotted out polyurethane engine or transmission mounts ( do these cars even have those),  or loose engine/transmission mount bolts, or could my pan have experienced some sort of dry rot failure?"

Yes, you should, but I doubt dry-rot failure.

There are three engine/transaxle mount points on your car.  There is one at the front of the transaxle nose cone, right behind the frame where your shift coupler is hitting the frame.  It is a piece of metal with a PVC cushion glued to it.  The bad ones have red urethane cushions that get brittle, break apart and fail.  The good ones are made of black rubber (stock VW or HD VW) or grey vinyl and made by Rhino mounts.  Yours has probably fatigued and separated, allowing the engine/transaxle to move rearward as a unit.

The other two mounting points are right where the engine mates to the transaxle at the bellhousing.  There is a mount at the bottom on each side.  They can be made of rubber  or Urethane.  Same as before, the good ones are rubber VW or gray vinyl from Rhino.  The bad ones are made of red urethane.

A decent mechanic can replace all three mounts more-or-less easily.  You mark and disconnect the shift coupler, remove the rear heat shields (he may not need to do this), disconnect the clutch cable, put a rolling floor jack under the engine/transaxle and move it back a couple/three inches to give clearance to get the old mounts out and new ones in.  Once swapped, bolt everything back together, re-connect the clutch and throttle cables and re-install the heat shields and you're done.   I've done this on a VW sedan in an afternoon.  A Speedster should be similar.

@Gordon Nichols, you have to remove the engine to r&r the rear mounts.

Thank you for the details.  Very useful.   Crawling under the car it looks like my bits are grey/ black.. not the red polyurethane.

And bugger… my go to mechanic retired, so will be needing to trust this to one of the other experts in town (as this would be over my skill code)

@LI-Rick posted:

@Gordon Nichols, you have to remove the engine to r&r the rear mounts.

The nuts are inside the bellhousing.

Ahhh, Shoot.

I forgot about those nuts.  You and Rick are right.  You gotta pull the engine.  Sorry.

Well, I will have to look at the bright side… it’s the first time since I had the car built (2013) that the engine will be coming out.   Good opportunity to finally install the CB- Fast Fab truss bar  and Light Pedal- Extra Long Clutch Arm  (pictured below) that I have been waiting for the engine to come out to be installed ( since 2020 ;-)).  —- to have someone else do it since my garage is small and I hate crawling under the car for anything other than the annual oil/filter, and gas line filter change.

only wished I could be doing this w/the old timer mechanic I have been working with last 10 years… since engines/transmissions was his thing and he has used every maintenance  opportunity to teach me how to do things myself…. But I guess at 85 it’s fair he decided  enter his second retirement & to stop wrenching on other peoples cars after +65yrs.  He truly is the classic VW/Porsche engine whisperer… the guy northwest shops called when they were stumped and could not diagnose a problem.

thank you again for all your help.

While you're at it, check the ginormous bolts on the ends of your frame horns. They hold the whole cradle on which your rear engine mounts mount.

They never back out. But if they ever did, and if the front mount were also broken (which it absolutely would be pretty soon!), they would allow your engine to slide back and forth a little.

Thank you sir.  

@Lfepardo

While you're checking those frame horn bolts, it'd be a good idea to check that there aren't any rusted out cracks or breaks along the length of those frame horns.

Thank-you all for your guidance.   Just heard from the shop- turns out:

- failed forward transsmision mount.  Turns out VS ( Hawaian Gardens)  used a non VW mount, - not a generic or performance part--- but a home made mount-   urgh!- I'm the original owner, so it came like this from VS.

- the two 27mm engine mount bolts were loose (mechanic was able to back both out by hand once the engine was supported by a jack).

- on the lift engine/tran could be shifted /moved 1cm fwd/back.

-fortunatelly no rust/cracls on the horns/pan.

... so engine is out, all transmission mounts will be replaced with German VW mounts (correct parts for the year pan).. the truss bar and longer clutch arm will be installed, and fuel filters replaced with flesh metal Napa Gold.

Not a pleasant early spring surprise, but... after 13 yrs-  no serious damage, and an opportunity to replace bad parts and upgrade a few bits I had been storing for such a time as the engine coming out.   And I get to test drive the new mechanic/shop ( and hets to test drive me as a customer) my recently retired mechanic recommended.  Only sad bit is this new shop is not open to teach me- use me as an extra set of hands- with my repairs,

With a little luck I get the car back on Friday and can get back to driving it daily now that the sun is out.

Thank you again.

That's great news. Understandable on not letting you in the shop because of liability issues. maybe as you to become more acquainted those rules may become a bit more relaxed. That may have been a bit too much to be expected on the first meeting. Hope it all works out and you're up and running as expected on Friday. Just in time for the weekend.

I love a happy ending.

@dlearl476 posted:

I love a happy ending.

Don't say that in a massage parlor or you may find yourself in some serious trouble if there's an undercover cop working inside. LOL

Status, picked up car today and got in a 100mile loop to test things out,,,, and WOW!  What a difference having solid transmission mounts makes ;-)

Also, for anyone who ever wanted a softer feeling  clutch, with a little bigger engagement area ( vs that on-off typical feeling) I would highly recommend  the long clutch arm swap upgrade.

I’m sure most know about this- but figured I would share what little I know about this simple upgrade:

- A 72 or earlier transmission will probably have the short 73mm arm, (#1)… my VS did… and in traffic and after long drives my leg would feel a bit tired because of the “ vintage design clutch”, specially after my 3 COVID time frame knee surgeries,   By switching to the 100mm long arm (#2) you will reduce your clutch pedal effort by almost 40%. ( back of the envelope force calculation.… and WOW was the change noticeable today… felt like driving with a modern clutch in traffic.

- A 73 to 75 transmission will likely  have the 90mm arm (#4). The upgrade for that is the 100mm arm (#5). Although not as dramatic as the early clutch arm upgrade, it reduces pedal effort by ~11%. This is definitely noticeable.

#1-3 fit  a16mm diameter clutch arm shaft ( quick test is to hold a dime to the shaft.. if it’s the same size, presto! You have an early clutch arm shaft).   #4-5 fit a 20mm shaft, I believe.

The 100mm longer arms are not easy to come by,  but they do pop up on the Samba, Wagen Werks ( not sure they are still open), and I believe Cip1 sometimes  stocks them.  I got mine from Bruce some time ago in Vancouver.

I’m really happy with this update.

wishing everyone a great weekend.

cheers,

#3 is Al’s clutch arm, right?

FWIW, I went the other way. I had a long arm and it was an exaggerated angle when I went to a hydraulic clutch, so I put a short one on it. I didn’t really notice any increase in effort. But I have a Spyder, and the hydro clutch eliminated the weird Rube Goldberg 180° pulley contraption that my car came with.

Yeah, and you probably got a 5/8" master and a 7/8" or 3/4" slave, which is the hydraulic equivalent of a longer clutch arm. The clutch effort is VERY light on my car, especially with the Sachs HD clutch instead of the Kennedy.

Weddle also makes a 16mm clutch cross shaft for a later style throwout bearing. They also stock various bushings to fit the trans case. They can get you parts to make just about any combo work. They even sell an adapter sleeve that allows later style clutches to work with early 6v transmissions.

Now I'm incentivized to get back out in the shop and get my engine and new clutch back in.  I was making great progress, but ran into troubles when re-assembling the fan shroud to the engine and had to take a couple of steps back.  😠

So I walked away for a couple of days to attend my wife's college reunion and should be back in the shop, today.

I also want to make up a cradle for my floor jack to hold the engine better, to make putting it back in the car easier.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

Now I'm incentivized to get back out in the shop and get my engine and new clutch back in.  I was making great progress, but ran into troubles when re-assembling the fan shroud to the engine and had to take a couple of steps back.  😠

So I walked away for a couple of days to attend my wife's college reunion and should be back in the shop, today.

I also want to make up a cradle for my floor jack to hold the engine better, to make putting it back in the car easier.

I feel your pain. Just when it started to get warm enough to work in my storage unit, my back went south and I got a case of Vertigo. (BPPV). I’ve been virtually disabled for 2.5 months. Meanwhile, my broken Spyder sits gathering dust.

I Haven’t touched it except to put the battery tender on it since I caught Covid the day I broke it.

@DannyP posted:

Yeah, and you probably got a 5/8" master and a 7/8" or 3/4" slave, which is the hydraulic equivalent of a longer clutch arm.

Probably. Iirc, I went off info you had posted when I did my pedals and installed a Wilwood master to replace the leaking MC that was first installed.

Sorry for your troubles @dlearl476.

Thx. Getting old: not for the feint of heart.