Questions about upcoming Speedster rental on Turo....

From the dash I'd say it looks like a Vintage, although the age, and thus the builder (Kirk Duncan or Greg Leach) can't be determined.  The engine could be anything from a 1500 to 2300 VW or even a Subaru.

To add to what Lane said above, without seeing the engine compartment we have no way of knowing what engine is powering the speedster. I will say in my experience there is a night and day difference between a Speedster replica powered by a VW engine and one powered by well sorted and engineered Subaru engine with a transaxle that has gearing to match the Subaru power band. This could be a Rancho Pro Suby 4 speed or the Subaru 5 speed transaxle. I had a VW powered Speedster replica that I had converted to Suby power by Special Edition, and it made it into a entirely different and better driving car. Some like the feel and authenticity of an air-cooled engine but it felt like a toy car verses a real sports car that was immensely more enjoyable to drive. If I were in the market for a Speedster replica and had the time money and patience, I would drive one with VW Type1 power and a well-done Subaru powered car to help in making the decision.  I commend you for renting a one first. Most of us didn't do that and many were unhappy with the car they bought or had built for them. At this point a good Speedster replica is a substantial investment. Not the $9K I paid for a Turnkey CMC back in the early 2000's.  Good luck with you research mission.  I recommend you ask the owner of the Speedster you are renting for the engine make and size and any other details about that particular build. There is a big difference in quality and performance and resale price from builder to builder. The lowest being Classic Motor Carriage or Fiberfab and the highest being Intermeccanica, Vintage and the Special Edition built Becks. The late model Beck Speedster are and some of the Intermeccanica cars are built on purpose-built frames and upgraded suspensions as compared to being built on a shortened VW Beetle Chassis or Pan.

That's a Kirk built Vintage Speedster from more than 10 years ago based on the interior.
-=theron

@Jimmy V. posted:

To add to what Lane said above, without seeing the engine compartment we have no way of knowing what engine is powering the speedster. I will say in my experience there is a night and day difference between a Speedster replica powered by a VW engine and one powered by well sorted and engineered Subaru engine with a transaxle that has gearing to match the Subaru power band. This could be a Rancho Pro Suby 4 speed or the Subaru 5 speed transaxle. I had a VW powered Speedster replica that I had converted to Suby power by Special Edition, and it made it into a entirely different and better driving car. Some like the feel and authenticity of an air-cooled engine but it felt like a toy car verses a real sports car that was immensely more enjoyable to drive. If I were in the market for a Speedster replica and had the time money and patience, I would drive one with VW Type1 power and a well-done Subaru powered car to help in making the decision.  I commend you for renting a one first. Most of us didn't do that and many were unhappy with the car they bought or had built for them. At this point a good Speedster replica is a substantial investment. Not the $9K I paid for a Turnkey CMC back in the early 2000's.  Good luck with you research mission.  I recommend you ask the owner of the Speedster you are renting for the engine make and size and any other details about that particular build. There is a big difference in quality and performance and resale price from builder to builder. The lowest being Classic Motor Carriage or Fiberfab and the highest being Intermeccanica, Vintage and the Special Edition built Becks. The late model Beck Speedster are and some of the Intermeccanica cars are built on purpose-built frames and upgraded suspensions as compared to being built on a shortened VW Beetle Chassis or Pan.

Thanks so much for your detailed response. In regards to what builder I'm going to go with if I do decide to pull the trigger, I have narrowed it down to VIntage and Beck, and I have already decided to go with the more powerful Subaru engine, though I'm not sure if Vintage offer that as an option? Beck look like the more affordable option, though I will obviously be speaking to both to see what the final cost would be for the spec I want. As for driving a Subaru powered car, assuming the one I'm renting the on Saturday isn't that, I have no idea how I'd go about getting my hands on one to drive. Any advice on that would be appreciated.

Are you sure that there's actually a car available. With Truro, you paid in advance, I've used the service twice with no issues but this could be suspicious. Did it have a lot of reviews?

@Theron posted:

That's a Kirk built Vintage Speedster from more than 10 years ago based on the interior.
-=theron

Yeah? What about the interior gives it away for you?

@WNGD posted:

Are you sure that there's actually a car available. With Truro, you paid in advance, I've used the service twice with no issues but this could be suspicious. Did it have a lot of reviews?

The car has since been disabled but the booking is still going ahead. I didn't pay in advance, I don't pay till tomorrow. Doesn't have a lot of trips but has several positive reviews. I'm in contact with him literally as we speak. All good.

Agree a VS.  The chrome trim under dash covering, no padded dash eyebrows above that trim, squared off door trim for side curtains, and their signature luggage rack.  Best guess on engine is 1915 cc - as that is cheapest (most popular) performance upgrade (94 mm vs 85.5 pistons and leaves but otherwise stock).  Could be 1600 cc (60 hp) or anything.

CMC/FF were sold as DIY so build quality is upon the builder.  Probably the most widely sold Speedster kit up to 1992.

@WOLFGANG posted:

Agree a VS.  The chrome trim under dash covering, no padded dash eyebrows above that trim, squared off door trim for side curtains, and their signature luggage rack.  Best guess on engine is 1915 cc - as that is cheapest (most popular) performance upgrade (94 mm vs 85.5 pistons and leaves but otherwise stock).  Could be 1600 cc (60 hp) or anything.

CMC/FF were sold as DIY so build quality is upon the builder.  Probably the most widely sold Speedster kit up to 1992.

What's CMC/FF?

Classic Motor Carriages and Fiber Fab.

Owner just sent me a photo of the engine bay...

What are we looking at here?

@Michael McKelvey posted:

Classic Motor Carriages and Fiber Fab.

TY!

The curly red wire confirms it is a Vintage.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

The curly red wire confirms it is a Vintage.

So it's going to be a 1600CC or 1900CC engine with either 60 or (?) HP?

I guess I’m lost.

Everything about this car says “Kirk and Mary Vintage Speedster” with the usual VS 1600/1915 “impossible to tell without taking it apart” VW T1. That’s really as close as you’re going to get.

We know, because everybody who’s answering has been here forever. In the case of Theron, he started this site more than 25 years ago. He knows what he’s looking at.

Also: the Vintage Speedster you will be driving has almost nothing to do with Vintage Motor Cars, which happens to be located in the same building.

Different owner, different process, different engines.

Good luck with the research.

Screams Vintage!

Just go drive it and then make up your mind.

@Stan Galat posted:

I guess I’m lost.

Everything about this car says “Kirk and Mary Vintage Speedster” with the usual VS 1600/1915 “impossible to tell without taking it apart” VW T1. That’s really as close as you’re going to get.

We know, because everybody who’s answering has been here forever. In the case of Theron, he started this site more than 25 years ago. He knows what he’s looking at.

Also: the Vintage Speedster you will be driving has almost nothing to do with Vintage Motor Cars, which happens to be located in the same building.

Different owner, different process, different engines.

Good luck with the research.

Yep thanks I've been doing a lot of reading here and if I'm not mistaken Vintage Motorcars are located here in Southern California. Vintage Speedsters used to be but Kirk ended up selling the business and it moved to Arizona before being run into the ground by some cop and are now out of business? That a pretty accurate summation of events?

@Panhandle Bob posted:

Screams Vintage!

Just go drive it and then make up your mind.

Will do. Extremely excited.

It looks like a VS from when Kirk and Mary Duncan owned and operated the business.

The engine size may be written on the front of the fan shroud (the side facing the front of the car/firewall) if it has not been repainted or replaced since it was delivered.   

@Mozza posted:

That a pretty accurate summation of events?

Exactly. Go get ‘em, Mozza.

@Mozza posted:

The car has since been disabled but the booking is still going ahead. I didn't pay in advance, I don't pay till tomorrow. Doesn't have a lot of trips but has several positive reviews. I'm in contact with him literally as we speak. All good.

Excellent, I hope yoiu have a blast!

The speedster was built prior to 2013 by Vintage Speedsters (Kirk and Mary era).  Prior to 2013, Vintage Speedsters (VS) used to use a curly-q alternator wire.  In addition, they had a single centralized pocket on each door card.  2013 and beyond, VS moved to a map pocket covering the entire lower section of the door card; and stopped using the curly-q wire.

This car looks well maintained.  It does have 4-lug wheels, as opposed to 5-lug (given the age we could tell by counting the ovals in the wheels--8, which is 4 lug, as opposed to 10, which is 5-lug).  Newer wheels can do 8 or 10 openings with 4-lug.

Here is where some assumptions come.  VS did a lot of 1600cc and 1915cc engines.  In addition, they did disc brakes up front and drums in back, or 4-wheel disc.

This car is a minimum of 14 years old.  It is well taken care of, by the photos, but still 14+ years old.  Which can either be good (or bad).  If you're purchasing a car from someone on this forum, chances are they love their speedster or Spyder more than one of their children.  The slightest thing off has been chased down and repaired, to the point where a 14 y/o speedster (or Spyder) may be better than one delivered new.  Or a 14 y/o car may have rattles and such that will drive you nuts, because the owner drives it 50 miles a year and couldn't care less.

That said, there will be some commonalities.  Such as driving position.  Whether a 14 y/o VS or a new Vintage Motorcar or a beck, you will pretty much be sitting in a similar position as it relates to the street and the cars surrounding you.  BECK Owners, are the footwells the same as VMC and VS?

Also, overall driving experience will be similar in that these are raw cars.  The wind will hit your face the same way in a VS, Beck or VMC.  The engine noise will be similar.  The comfort (or lack of comfort) will be very similar.

There are a number of fine tuning differences between VS, VMC and Beck.  Quality differences too.  But looking at it 50,000 feet up, this rental should provide you a good impression of whether or not you want to pursue buying one.

@Mozza posted:

Will do. Extremely excited.

This is exactly what I did before I placed the order for my speedster. I rented a speedster while in Hawaii and drove it for 12 hours all over the Island. Heat, rain, cold, wind, noise, comfort or lack of it all played a part in my decision and how to order it. I did some things on my build that make my driving experience more to my liking. I had a builder that was willing to make some changes to my build and I am grateful for that. I love my speedster and will be back to driving the wheels off of it soon. Good luck on your experience !!

If you get serious about Subaru power, be advised that it can come mid engine or rear mount.  Be sure to actually see and drive one to understand what all that difference means.  While the mid engine makes a whole lot of sense if your taking it near the limit in a turn, it will take up a lot of cabin space and could provide heat and noise.  All the mid engine lash-ups I've seen and ridden in were not really my cup of tea.  356s are supposed to have the engine in the rear.  One man's opinion.

@Kevin - Bay Area posted:

The speedster was built prior to 2013 by Vintage Speedsters (Kirk and Mary era).  Prior to 2013, Vintage Speedsters (VS) used to use a curly-q alternator wire.  In addition, they had a single centralized pocket on each door card.  2013 and beyond, VS moved to a map pocket covering the entire lower section of the door card; and stopped using the curly-q wire.

This car looks well maintained.  It does have 4-lug wheels, as opposed to 5-lug (given the age we could tell by counting the ovals in the wheels--8, which is 4 lug, as opposed to 10, which is 5-lug).  Newer wheels can do 8 or 10 openings with 4-lug.

Here is where some assumptions come.  VS did a lot of 1600cc and 1915cc engines.  In addition, they did disc brakes up front and drums in back, or 4-wheel disc.

This car is a minimum of 14 years old.  It is well taken care of, by the photos, but still 14+ years old.  Which can either be good (or bad).  If you're purchasing a car from someone on this forum, chances are they love their speedster or Spyder more than one of their children.  The slightest thing off has been chased down and repaired, to the point where a 14 y/o speedster (or Spyder) may be better than one delivered new.  Or a 14 y/o car may have rattles and such that will drive you nuts, because the owner drives it 50 miles a year and couldn't care less.

That said, there will be some commonalities.  Such as driving position.  Whether a 14 y/o VS or a new Vintage Motorcar or a beck, you will pretty much be sitting in a similar position as it relates to the street and the cars surrounding you.  BECK Owners, are the footwells the same as VMC and VS?

Also, overall driving experience will be similar in that these are raw cars.  The wind will hit your face the same way in a VS, Beck or VMC.  The engine noise will be similar.  The comfort (or lack of comfort) will be very similar.

There are a number of fine tuning differences between VS, VMC and Beck.  Quality differences too.  But looking at it 50,000 feet up, this rental should provide you a good impression of whether or not you want to pursue buying one.

Thanks so much for this. If I do decide to buy it will certainly be from new as I will have to have it EXACTLY as I want it. Colour, options, etc.

@Butcher Boy posted:

This is exactly what I did before I placed the order for my speedster. I rented a speedster while in Hawaii and drove it for 12 hours all over the Island. Heat, rain, cold, wind, noise, comfort or lack of it all played a part in my decision and how to order it. I did some things on my build that make my driving experience more to my liking. I had a builder that was willing to make some changes to my build and I am grateful for that. I love my speedster and will be back to driving the wheels off of it soon. Good luck on your experience !!

Great minds...:-)

@El Frazoo posted:

If you get serious about Subaru power, be advised that it can come mid engine or rear mount.  Be sure to actually see and drive one to understand what all that difference means.  While the mid engine makes a whole lot of sense if your taking it near the limit in a turn, it will take up a lot of cabin space and could provide heat and noise.  All the mid engine lash-ups I've seen and ridden in were not really my cup of tea.  356s are supposed to have the engine in the rear.  One man's opinion.

I would tend to agree, I've driven several 911s.

Beck has always impressed me with the amount of floor space available due to their tube frame (even the center tunnel is lower/less intrusive).  A VW pan limits both foot and seat space.  A pan-based car limits you to an 18" (to maybe 20") wide seat due to tunnel and side sills.  However using an ancient VW pan often makes it easier to register often as the year of its VW pan - which can exempt smog testing requirements and allow for antique plates.

Check out Troy's website to see the various VS body styles from the classic to ultra-wide body cars.

Speedsters |https://speedsters.troysloan.com/

Rear vs mid-engine?  For about 11 years I drove a Porsche 914 which was mid-engine.  I did normal mods to it - anti-sway bars (F&R), Koni struts, alloy wheels with Michelin XAS radials.  It handled predictably at any speed - no tail-wagging engine pendulum.

Beck only builds Speedster with a rear engine, regardless of whether it is VW or Subaru..  Their Coupe is available mid-engined, but not the Speedster.  Becks have always had their own chassis rather than a VW pan, but the latest iteration includes a modern coil-over suspension front and rear with rack and pinion steering.  Very nicely done.

@Lane Anderson and others covered it well.  The dash cover, door panels and interior are typical older Kirk built VS.
-=theron

The seats are a huge tell for me.

Kirk just couldn't bring himself to do a Speedster seat the way Porsche had done it. He seemed to have a need to pleat them or later to put that perpendicular seam in the base about 8" back from the nose.

Why, I do not know -- but there it is.

@Mozza is see you live in Calabasas.  I’m in Thousand Oaks.  I drive a 3 year old Vintage MC that I ordered new 4 years ago.  There are a handful of us in these parts (Moorpark to Balboa Lake and further south) who get together once in a while for a meet and/or a drive.  

This Sunday a few of us are likely to meet at Pierce College cars and coffee, 7:00 to 10:00 (but many are gone by 9:00).  I’m 50/50 on attending.  @Techdave with his black VMC speedster, @jncspyder with his black JPS Suby coupe will be there.  So will @SlikkNikk with his green Vintage (?) speedster.  O e or two more are possible.  

A week from Saturday is cars and coffee at the Westlake Promenade.  A few of us might be there as well.  8:00 to 10:00.

Come say howdy if you can, we’d be glad to offer advice and help you spend your money.

Jon

@Jon T posted:

@Mozza is see you live in Calabasas.  I’m in Thousand Oaks.  I drive a 3 year old Vintage MC that I ordered new 4 years ago.  There are a handful of us in these parts (Moorpark to Balboa Lake and further south) who get together once in a while for a meet and/or a drive.  

This Sunday a few of us are likely to meet at Pierce College cars and coffee, 7:00 to 10:00 (but many are gone by 9:00).  I’m 50/50 on attending.  @Techdave with his black VMC speedster, @jncspyder with his black JPS Suby coupe will be there.  So will @SlikkNikk with his green Vintage (?) speedster.  O e or two more are possible.  

A week from Saturday is cars and coffee at the Westlake Promenade.  A few of us might be there as well.  8:00 to 10:00.

Come say howdy if you can, we’d be glad to offer advice and help you spend your money.

Jon

Oh wow! That sounds awesome! This Sunday is far more likely for me as:

A: I'll have the Speedster as opposed to my 23 Accord Hybrid(lol).

B: Next Saturday I will likely be working.

I hope to see you Sunday and thanks for reaching out.

Jim and I will be there early to grab a spot. There is usually a great turnout and an opportunity to meet new friends.

@Techdave posted:

Jim and I will be there early to grab a spot. There is usually a great turnout and an opportunity to meet new friends.

Which, by the way, is one of the best reasons to have one of these cars.  The number of lifelong friends you will make and the number of fun experiences you will have is uncountable.

"... have driven 911s"  Listen closely:  Not. The. Same. a 356, whether original or VW replica will feature 1940s and 1950s technology.  But you are doing the right thing: test drive, hang with current owners, ping this club for opinions, of which there will be very many.  Go with a reputable builder, of which there may be three.  Visit that builder at his shop, face to face.  And having it bulit to order is the right way to go, although some here bought used to see what they were getting in to, then had one built to spec once they knew exactly what they wanted.  Others with wrenching skills bought kits and made it themselves.

Note:  There are what I would call 911 356 Speedster replicas.  These would have the 356 FG body and interiors, gauges, etc, but feature purpose-built frame and all 911 running gear: suspension, brakes, steering, trans, engine.  Such builds are very very nice and work really well, and obviously depend on a 911 donor.  Intermechnica built quite a few of these, and they are sweet.  IM not around any more, and i would suppose Beck and Vintage could manage the same.  Very pricey way to go, but a truly exceptional ride when done right.

@Mozza my mistake, CountyLine C&C at the Westlake Promenade is this Saturday, not next Saturday.  8:00 to 10:00.

If by chance you pick up the rental on Friday and your Saturday morning is free, you should should come.  I will be there, as will @Colorjockey who until recently owned a Silver Vintage speedster.  He sold it and ordered a new speedster from Vintage MC that should be finished later this year.   It will be a bit chilly each morning (mid 40s I think) and it might be a bit foggy.  

Dress in layers, bring a towel, and attend both C&Cs this weekend.  If you are still smiling on Monday you will have your answer.

PM me if you have other ideas about how to meet this weekend.  One or two of us my be up for lunch.  

Jon

Hi Jon, definitely won't be able to do Saturday as I definitely won't be picking up the car till 9am Saturday morning. In Bakersfield...lol

Sunday at Pierce will be my only opportunity I'm afraid, and that will all depend on what wifey and I get up to on Saturday night. Nothing crazy planned as of yet, so my current leaning is to get up early and head down, either avec or sans wife.

Fair enough.  Hopefully I’ll get to Pierce on Sunday, but we can always arrange to meet another day.  

A round trip ride from Bakersfield to Calabasas is quite a haul.

Wear driving shoes if you have them, or whatever shoes you have that leave the smallest footprint.  The pedals are close to each other and your toes may be obstructed from above. Bring ear plugs, extended wind buffeting at freeway speeds can be annoying.  If wifey is going with you, just know that cabin noise will be loud so conversations won’t be easy.  Test the horn before you get going and drive defensively.  Make sure your cell phone is charged.   Drive defensively.   Wear a hat that fits snugly, and maybe bring a backup.  And drive defensively.  Good luck!

All great tips! Thank you!

We'll be driving straight up I5 in our car in the AM and then taking our sweet ass time coming back down the slow and windy way(US 33), stopping off in Ojai for lunch. Then Santa Barbara for a bit, then Malibu for dinner, so the day will be broken up nicely and we'll be spending no more than a few miles on the 101(short stretch from Santa Barbara before detouring on to the PCH). The vast majority of the time will be spent on single lane each way roads.

I wear a size 8 shoe and have some low profile Adidas Gazelle's so I should be all good on that front.

Thankfully the car has had a USB port retrofitted but we are bringing two little portable chargers just in case. Bluetooth speaker also ready to go.

I've actually been giving the hat thing a bit of thought and I might just not wear one at all while I'm driving. I've already suggested to wifey that she wear her hair up.

Do you think I should drive defensively? ;-)

The best thing I’ve found when driving the speedster are AirPods. They make the trip more enjoyable by reducing the wind. The wind will hit you in the front, the back and both the left and right sides.
Bluetooth speakers are essentially worthless above 25mph.
Conversations are difficult to have above 50mph. It simply becomes shouting at each other.
Airpods are the savior. It took me 2 years of driving to realize this. It’s the only reason why my wife was able to do day 1 (180mi) of the rally last year.

Sounds like a wonderful and long day.  Love the spirit.

@Kevin - Bay Area posted:

The best thing I’ve found when driving the speedster are AirPods. They make the trip more enjoyable by reducing the wind. The wind will hit you in the front, the back and both the left and right sides.
Bluetooth speakers are essentially worthless above 25mph.
Conversations are difficult to have above 50mph. It simply becomes shouting at each other.
Airpods are the savior. It took me 2 years of driving to realize this. It’s the only reason why my wife was able to do day 1 (180mi) of the rally last year.

I will make sure to bring my pair!

I've made many long distance trips in a Speedster and recommend having the top up on the interstate.  It reduces wind and keeps you from getting sun/wind burned.  There's no shame in comfort on the boring interstate.

@Lane Anderson posted:

I've made many long distance trips in a Speedster and recommend having the top up on the interstate.  It reduces wind and keeps you from getting sun/wind burned.  There's no shame in comfort on the boring interstate.

Lane is a friend I respect, but we've always disagreed about this.

Top us is not "comfortable" -- it's miserable. It's like riding in a pickup bed under a tarp (only noisier and less comfortable). Yes, it keeps the sun off, but so does a hat. Having the top up is like being blindfolded inside a drum. It's hot and noisy and sucks all the joy out of the experience. Sight-lines go to zero, and you WILL make a mistake because you just can't see what's happening around you.

If you put the top down, even an interstate slog becomes an adventure.

I live in the middle of this continent, and have been to both coasts in my Speedster. the only time the top goes up is if there's rain or if the temperature drops below freezing. Porsche thought of it as an "emergency top". So should you.

Haha! Appreciate both sides lads. Fortunately I'm going to be on the interstate(101) for all of less than 40 miles (between Santa Barbara and Oxnard) the entire day. Not a chance in hell I'll be putting the top up. :-)

You have to understand that Stan is proportioned like a gorilla, with approximately 90% of his height from the waist up.  It makes for some interesting seating arrangements.  

Haha! I'm short (5'7" on a good day) and the missus is shorter (5'4"), I assume this will help with with us not having our heads up in the wind quite as much?

@Mozza posted:

Not a chance in hell I'll be putting the top up. :-)

Good decision. Have fun and keep your head on a swivel.

You seem to have it BAD for these cars, a sentiment most of us understand. If you still want one at the end of the day, you're doomed.

It will.  In all seriousness I started my first long distance trip (Charleston, SC to Carlisle, PA, ~750 miles) in May of '06 on a beautiful 70 degree day with the top down.  After an hour or so the top went up but the windows stayed off, and I was much more comfortable.  I later learned that if it was cool enough, having the passenger side window in helped and later, after fabricating some plexiglas side windows with moveable vents I was able to make almost any set of conditions comfortable.

@Lane Anderson posted:

You have to understand that Stan is proportioned like a gorilla, with approximately 90% of his height from the waist up.  It makes for some interesting seating arrangements.  

I have no idea what Lane is talking about.

@Stan Galat posted:

Good decision. Have fun and keep your head on a swivel.

You seem to have it BAD for these cars, a sentiment most of us understand. If you still want one at the end of the day, you're doomed.

I am already mentally preparing myself.

@Mozza posted:

Haha! I'm short (5'7" on a good day) and the missus is shorter (5'4"), I assume this will help with with us not having our heads up in the wind quite as much?

Being short is a huge advantage in these cars. I am 5'4" and sit below the windshield. I have driven my car twice* from Chicago to Pennsylvania (~700 miles) with the top down the entire time. I do not suffer as most and have a bluetooth audio system that I can hear clearly at 50mph.

*one trip was with Stan as my right seater and he fit just fine

Enjoy the trip and take pics or it didn't happen

@Joe Fortino posted:

Being short is a huge advantage in these cars. I am 5'4" and sit below the windshield. I have driven my car twice* from Chicago to Pennsylvania (~700 miles) with the top down the entire time. I do not suffer as most and have a bluetooth audio system that I can hear clearly at 50mph.

*one trip was with Stan as my right seater and he fit just fine

Enjoy the trip and take pics or it didn't happen

Definitely will. Your Speedster is stunning by the way. What's that colour? Pistachio?

@Stan Galat posted:

I have no idea what Lane is talking about.

I've no idea why Lane is disparaging my friend.

The way Stan has the seats in his Speedster, I (of normal stature), sit so low I can't see over the dash. I feel like a height-challenged 80-plus Grandpa driving in Florida.

When Stan sits in his car, he looks quite normal, like every other average-sized human driving a Speedster.

Lane, go drive your computer-enhanced cocoon of a BMW.

I'll never understand driving an open car with the top up, unless you absolutely have to. It's against the nature of the thing.

@Stan Galat posted:

I'll never understand driving an open car with the top up, unless you absolutely have to. It's against the nature of the thing.

💯

Usually I agree with that, but long slog interstate driving is a chore anyway, so I just want to get to the destination without sunburn.

As for Danny...

@Mozza posted:

Definitely will. Your Speedster is stunning by the way. What's that colour? Pistachio?

Thanks it is Stone Grey and was an original color albeit special order.

The Romance:

The Reality:

I have driven at least a handful of times with the top up without regret or diminished pleasure.  

The first time was for pure experimentation.  I figured someday I might be caught in a bit of rain so I should know how to successfully raise and lower the top.   Before leaving the comfort of my garage I quickly learned that visibility with the top up and the side curtains installed was awful.  I could not imagine driving this way if it was raining, and certainly not if it was dark and raining.  My hat is off to those who have done so.

I removed the curtains and set out for a little drive.  Visibility was actually decent, in great part because my seat pans are lowered and I have left and right side convex mirrors.  After a bit of surface street driving I cautiously pointed towards a freeway on-ramp to see if the top becomes a parachute without side curtains installed.  To my delight the top alone significantly reduced cabin turbulence and I saw no evidence the top was tugging on the windshield frame.

I have also driven top-up a handful of times when temps are in the 40s and my route will have me drive at speed for several miles, and maybe twice when driving mid day during the hot summer months.  I know, the latter is pretty much sacrilege especially here in coastal SoCal, but I do have a history of skin cancer, so there’s that.  The smile on my face doesn’t change.  YMMV.

I usually put the to up on long freeway drives, like from Michigan to Carlisle.

I have a zipper on the rear window so I don't get wind buffeting.

I have driven quite a few "interstate slogs" as you guys say.

A no top sunny day in the Spyder going from upstate NY to Washington D.C. via the NJ Turnpike is anything BUT boring.

If you let it be fun, it can be fun indeed.

My favorite Speedster color is Stone Grey!  To me, it is a grey stone color with a good touch of green moss mixed in.  Recall going on a Pumpkin Run organized by DrClock in PA.  There was a gorgeous stone grey speedster there with a light plum color interior!  Think this is it (Scott).

@WOLFGANG posted:

My favorite Speedster color is Stone Grey!  To me, it is a grey stone color with a good touch of green moss mixed in.  Recall going on a Pumpkin Run organized by DrClock in PA.  There was a gorgeous stone grey speedster there with a light plum color interior!

If I'm not mistaken, that was Scott Sloan's car originally. That car changed my thinking about Speedsters.

I almost bought that car in 2013. 3rd owner. Had 40k miles on its air cooled engine. Bought a water cooled IM with 10k at the time. In retrospect I should have bought Sloan’s car. It is an IM classic.

This is a recent photo of Stan on our last trip. It’s obvious why Stan doesn’t like driving with the top up.

Lots of great advice from the group! The part about your "head on a swivel" should not be taken lightly. These cars attract a lot of attention whether driving down the road or sitting still. Just be aware that while driving down the interstate, you may encounter fellow driver pulling up next to you and wanting to take your picture. This is a very dangerous situation, as they are looking to take your picture they have a tendency to drive right into the side of your car or cross into your lane. This has happened to me many times over the years. Watch your rear view mirror, if you see a car speeding, going in and out of traffic, chances are, they are trying to catch up to you for the photo op. I usually slow down when they are next to me, and pull in behind them. They get the idea and move on. Just be careful out there and have a fun time. Spend as much time in the car as possible. As you settle in and get to feel the car, you will start to pick up on the things that you don't like about this car. Does it have enough power, are the seats comfortable, should it have wider pedals, is the steering wheel where you want it, is it worth having a stereo in the car, how does it handle? These are some of  the question you should be asking yourself as you drive. Also remember this is just the first car of this type you are driving. Keep reading the post on this site and listen to the folks here and you will gain a wealth of knowledge to help make good decisions when you place your order.

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=921211996704631

THese guys either ... perfect time for aircooled.

What Stan says is absolutely correct.  Also, What Lane says is absolutely correct.  Speedsters must be driven with the top down, unless of course it might be raining and you did not plan correctly.  And even then you only get wet in the rain in a Speedster if you stop.  I have proved that to be true. And those long,  long hours slogging on an interstate with the top up and windows off makes life a lot easier.  And I have never felt like I couldn't see what was going on around me.  And after several skin cancer surgeries,  using the roof for hours on a sunny day makes some sense.  I suppose if you are a gorilla, maybe it just does not matter.

@Mozza posted:

I will make sure to bring my pair!

I’ll second that. I don’t have AirPods but some JBL units with noise cancelling. I wish I could be more disciplined about wearing them but on long drives if I don’t wear them, I wear regular earplugs. Driving my convertible exclusively since last June has taken my tinnitus up a notch, or two.

@IaM-Ray posted:

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=921211996704631

THese guys either ... perfect time for aircooled.

It’s not so bad with a good heater.

@El Frazoo posted:

And after several skin cancer surgeries,  using the roof for hours on a sunny day makes some sense.  I suppose if you are a gorilla, maybe it just does not matter.

I'm on the 6 month plan -- every 6 months, I go it, take off my shirt, my guy identifies the 3 or 4 spots, and he freezes off the pre-cancerous spots and digs out the ones that don't look as benign. Before I was Santa Claus, I was a strawberry blonde who worked outside. It is what it is.

Wear a hat.

@Joe Fortino posted:

Thanks it is Stone Grey and was an original color albeit special order.

Absolutely gorgeous.

@Butcher Boy posted:

Lots of great advice from the group! The part about your "head on a swivel" should not be taken lightly. These cars attract a lot of attention whether driving down the road or sitting still. Just be aware that while driving down the interstate, you may encounter fellow driver pulling up next to you and wanting to take your picture. This is a very dangerous situation, as they are looking to take your picture they have a tendency to drive right into the side of your car or cross into your lane. This has happened to me many times over the years. Watch your rear view mirror, if you see a car speeding, going in and out of traffic, chances are, they are trying to catch up to you for the photo op. I usually slow down when they are next to me, and pull in behind them. They get the idea and move on. Just be careful out there and have a fun time. Spend as much time in the car as possible. As you settle in and get to feel the car, you will start to pick up on the things that you don't like about this car. Does it have enough power, are the seats comfortable, should it have wider pedals, is the steering wheel where you want it, is it worth having a stereo in the car, how does it handle? These are some of  the question you should be asking yourself as you drive. Also remember this is just the first car of this type you are driving. Keep reading the post on this site and listen to the folks here and you will gain a wealth of knowledge to help make good decisions when you place your order.

This is fantastic. Thank you. My wife loves telling me to be safe and take it easy, and this post will only substantiate that.

Hey @Mozza, by now you have probably realized that this site is a bit unusual.  The amount of comradery is very high.  We get together a lot and mess with each other.  We also help each other frequently.  We may occasionally have a tiff but it blows over.  When I first got into this hobby I checked out a lot of site and a lot of types of cars, and was not particularly drawn to Speedsters in the beginning.  That changed when I met some of these folks at Carlisle in '05.  If you join our little corner of madness, you will find that the cars are only a small part of the hobby.  While I no longer have a replica I still hang out here and attend events.  Great bunch of folks.

@Lane Anderson posted:

Hey @Mozza, by now you have probably realized that this site is a bit unusual.  The amount of comradery is very high.  We get together a lot and mess with each other.  We also help each other frequently.  We may occasionally have a tiff but it blows over.  When I first got into this hobby I checked out a lot of site and a lot of types of cars, and was not particularly drawn to Speedsters in the beginning.  That changed when I met some of these folks at Carlisle in '05.  If you join our little corner of madness, you will find that the cars are only a small part of the hobby.  While I no longer have a replica I still hang out here and attend events.  Great bunch of folks.

I used to own an 08 Mini JCW. Fully tuned to nearly 300hp. Used to go to Lime Rock with the Mini Cooper owners club and loved every minute of it. Believe me I know what I would be getting into and am enthusiastic for it

I am from Ireland originally but I’m “black Irish”, meaning I have Spanish sallow skin. I’ll burn slightly day one and then go brown, so not particularly worried about sun exposure. My wife is Israeli, so similar. Lol

@Mozza posted:

Absolutely gorgeous.

And so he moves to the next step already.  Choosing what color he wants to order.  Welcome to the Madness Mozza!  

You can join us at Blinkies donuts on Topanga about a year from now!

@Jon T posted:

And so he moves to the next step already.  Choosing what color he wants to order.  Welcome to the Madness Mozza!  

You can join us at Blinkies donuts on Topanga about a year from now!

I think I want the new metallic oak green GT3 touring launch colour with tan leather and ivory switches etc.

@Lane Anderson posted:

Hey @Mozza, by now you have probably realized that this site is a bit unusual.  The amount of comradery is very high.  We get together a lot and mess with each other.  We also help each other frequently.  We may occasionally have a tiff but it blows over.  When I first got into this hobby I checked out a lot of site and a lot of types of cars, and was not particularly drawn to Speedsters in the beginning.  That changed when I met some of these folks at Carlisle in '05.  If you join our little corner of madness, you will find that the cars are only a small part of the hobby.  While I no longer have a replica I still hang out here and attend events.  Great bunch of folks.

I love the site, and I’m totally ready and looking forward to the camaraderie. That’s part of what makes me want to buy a proper sports car

@Mozza posted:

I am from Ireland originally but I’m “black Irish”, meaning I have Spanish sallow skin. I’ll burn slightly day one and then go brown, so not particularly worried about sun exposure. My wife is Israeli, so similar. Lol

Love Tel Aviv shemesh the beach is awesome !!!

Where are you from in Ireland?  I used to get to Ovens/West Cork a lot when I was working.  I married a girl whose family came from County Antrim in the North.

Welcome to this Speedster Madness!!

@Stan Galat, I've had a couple of pretty big deal nasty types (melanoma) removed, so that tends to get your attention.  Along with a recurring 4 month regimen.  Always some freezies. And I ALWAYS wear a hat.  And sunscreen.

NWH says wear yo hat!

@Mozza posted:

Haha! Appreciate both sides lads. Fortunately I'm going to be on the interstate(101) for all of less than 40 miles (between Santa Barbara and Oxnard) the entire day. Not a chance in hell I'll be putting the top up. :-)

I put the top up. LOL. Ended up staying in Santa Barbara later than expected (till after dark) so ended up putting it up for the trip back down the 101. Had a great day in general, it's just a super fun experience. Looking forward to Cars and Coffee tomorrow and spending another day with the car.

Skin cancer is no joke.

I had about a third of my nose removed via mohs surgery last summer and had the area covered with a skin graft from my clavicle area.

In my case the cancer was pretty deep and it took 3 passes to get it all.

There goes my modeling career.

Good that you could joke about it…. Scary thing life is at times… thank G-d when he delivers you out of it.

@Panhandle Bob posted:

Skin cancer is no joke.

I had about a third of my nose removed via mohs surgery last summer and had the area covered with a skin graft from my clavicle area.

In my case the cancer was pretty deep and it took 3 passes to get it all.

There goes my modeling career.

I also remember the guy in Hawaii with the black IM6 whose nose was messed up with cancer. My own father eventually had a ton of cancer spots on his bald head that got pretty gross/crusty/horns but by that time he was in his 90's. My doctor says pretty much everyone 40+ will have skin cancer at some point. I love the sun but NEVER sit in it. I wear a hat but hate sunscreen, what to do, what to do.

Yeah I think he got his nose out of joint and left.  No just kidding, but he had posted at one time the artistic work that was done for removal of the lesions on his nose…. well it wasn’t nice.

IM -6 Banzai …. car and sun damage on ….

His car was really awesome.  

@wngd, I had to try a lot of sunscreens before I found one I was comfortable with.

There are chemical and physical sunscreens. I prefer physical.  It seems like they don't have the need to reapply like chemical.

Currently, I am using a Korean sunscreen.  After I rub it in I don't notice that it is there.

I apply it every morning regardless if I think I am going outside or not.

I think it’s all in the genes. Twice in my life I got sunburned so severely I blistered up. A red flag for skin cancer later in life. I get checked regularly but so far all benign. I wear a hat when I’m outside, but it’s more for my eyes than my skin. Arms and ears are nearly always exposed. Legs, too, in summer. (I rarely wear long pants April-October)

So far, so good.

@Michael McKelvey What brand do you use?
-=theron

What a weekend guys. It was so nice meeting those of you who were at Cars and Coffee on Sunday. Beautiful cars. Now to figure out which builder I'm going to go with, what exact spec I want (I've flip flopped several times already), and more importantly how I'm going to pay for it all!

Saturday we picked up the car in Bakersfield and drove back down 33 (FREEZING cold for the first hour or so at elevation) to Ojai, stopped for lunch, then continued on to Santa Barbara via the 150 and 192. We elected to put the top up for our final leg down the 101 to home. Sunday woke up early and went to meet the aforementioned fine folk at Cars and Coffee. After that I picked up wifey and we set off into Malibu Canyon where we stopped at our favourite place, Old Place, at which there was a really cool collection of cars, including a lime green Porsche (pics attached). After that we took Yerba Buena back to the PCH and made our way back exactly the way we'd come the day before. The last hour or so after the sun went down was pretty brutal as far as the temperature went, even with the top up, but I wouldn't have changed a minute of it. Can't wait to join the club for real.

Attached are a few pics from what can only be described as an epic weekend...

Fan-damn-tastic!!!  Keep us apprised of you decisions.  As is often said here, we love helping spending other people spend their money.

@Mozza -- you're MILES ahead of where most of us started. You didn't just "do your research" (which is a meaningless exercise until you've driven one), you went out and spent a weekend rolling one

... and now you're doomed.

You're not just a casual prospective buyer with 14 other cars, thinking this would be a "neat addition to the collection". Guys like that bump up on the limitations of the thing, and bail after a year and 500 miles. Guys who have it bad push right through all the discomfort, imperfection in the platform, and 1930s technology.

It's BY FAR the coolest thing you'll ever own, and I've owned some pretty fun stuff along the way. We've all got opinions about builders and options (which will all come out soon enough), but let me be among the first to say,

Welcome to the Madness.

Um, yeah, what he said

Um, yeah, what he said he said. 

"and now you're doomed"                                                                                                             And Stan, that's so funny (and right on!) I almost sprayed the keyboard with oatmeal!

Not too many go out and try one before succumbing to their illusion oh I mean dream…

@Theron: Round Iab Birch Juice Moisturizing Sunscreen, SPF 50+, PA++++, 1.69 fl oz

There are multiple sellers on Amazon.  Here is one - Round Iab Birch Juice Moisturizing Sunscreen, SPF 50+, PA++++, 1.69 fl oz.

I wonder if some are counterfeit. There is slightly different printing on the tube.