Questions for the Brain Trust

Ok, guys, I have a couple of questions for all of the brain power that hangs out at this site.

1. Yesterday I disassembled and cleaned out the Webers to get rid of remaining debris washed in during the Great Deluge of '08 - Carlisle Edition. When I removed the tops of the float chambers and was cleaning them, I noticed that both floats appear to have a black, paint-like coating that seems to be coming off in a few spots. I would think that this could muck up Webers real fast. Any idea what could have caused this, and what should be done to fix it? Do I need to replace the floats?

2. I've noticed that the first time that I crank the car after it's been sitting for a few days, I don't hear the fuel pump humming. Sometimes I'll crank it a couple of times like that. The car seems to start as well as it always has after sitting, but I'm curious about it, and wonder if I may be getting set up for a fuel pump failure. Once the car starts, I never have any trouble with running or restarting.

Ideas, anyone?

Are the floats metal? Copper or brass? Are they ABS plastic? The new biofuel mixes have adverse effects on carb internals, all of the boats around here have had carb problems, centered on the floats. The black might just be light tarnish or residue.

The pump ought to go on only when the fuel bowls need filling. Once the level is achieved, the float rises and closes the valve, the back pressure in the lines is too great to overcome and the pump ceases until needed again. You may not need any fuel in the bowls lately on start-up.

I THINK . . . perhaps.


We'll wait to hear from the Smarty Pants

The floats appear to be plastic, with some sort of coating. It seems to be pealing along edges, and I'm pretty sure it's not varnish, as there is nothing like it anywhere else in the bowl. I'm betting it's due to ethanol content, along with several bottles of Dry Gas after the deluge.

sounds like the plastic of the float is taking a dive.

i just picked up an IDF float from pierce manifolds.

What happens if you scrub it lightly with an old toothbrush?

Some of the black stuff comes off.

This is not so good, sounds like it's float replacement time....
I wonder if, you'll get the same "quality" replacement floats that will also flake over time? I wonder if Carey has run into this with other speedsters ? Guess you'll have to avoid using any more that Sunoco race fuel :) ~Alan

FYI... STA-BIL has a new formula for marine engines that has extra good stuff to combat the effects of ethanol in the fuel. We've been using it in our boats,so far so good. Unfortunately you only find out for sure when something fails.

New floats and gaskets ordered from Weber Carbs Direct. Floats look exactly like what I have, so I expect the same issue in a couple of years. However, if this was exacerbated by the amounts of Dry Gas I had to run through back in May, I may be able to avoid it in the future.

While you're waiting for your new floats to fail again, look a round for a set of brass floats. I have them in the DCOE on one of the turbos, they must be available for your carbs as well.

There's a Weber expert, Art Thraen, at:
http://www.aircooledengineering.com/products.html

He's the only real Go-To-Guy when it comes to Webers and can tell you everything that you'll ever need to know on how to keep your's alive and running perfectly. An email will set you up with the cure or the replacement parts that you'll need.

Luck !

TC

I, too, have a set of Brass.........

Oh, wait......You're talking about Floats?

sorry.....

Thanks, TC.

G-dawg - those are pretty big float chambers. Are you sure yours would measure up? ;-)

From what I have read, Ethanol is known to attack certain soft gaskets and "plastic" hose lines. Not sure if this is with 10% type or the E-85 type. Either way - not a good result, and evidently here to stay.

Remember the old issues with the phaseout of Freon for R12(?) in the air conditioners? Same type of issue.

Alan, the Stabil brand of gas conditioner should be elevated right up there with duct tape and WD40, IMHO.

The car ran great after getting it all back together, but I'll be replacing the floats anyway as I expect further flaking, and the associated idle jet clogs.

I did notice one oddity, though. After parking the car and closing the garage door, I went out to take the pictures of the hinges that Mickey asked for. The smell of gas was strong, and I could hear the carbs gurgling. Any idea what that could be? I saw no gas leakage anywhere.

If you had been driving it for a while just before you parked it (like driving it home from work) and the engine was hot, it's probably just gently percolating the gas in the float bowls (gasoline will percolate at a lower temp tham water).

When the engine cools, it'll stop. Sounds normal. That must be the reason I have to pump mine a few times to start it after it's cooled overnight....

That's probably it. I drove my usual back-road route, followed by some highway time, so it was good and warmed up. When I pulled into the garage, I immediately closed the door, so any fumes would have been trapped.

Just in time for perfect Speedy weather, right Gordo? This is gonna be a nice few days ahead.

I'm with you.....it's finally dropping down below 90 and the air is MUCHO drier. On top of that, I just got a 4-wheel alignment done after replacing all of my suspension bushings this year and I'm raaaarin' to go!

The Beaufort club will be at Bessinger's BBQ on SC 17 on Wednesday, Oct. 1 for their monthly dinner cruise. Be there or be square!

A smaller bunch may be doing the Yemassee Shrimp Festival parade this coming Saturday, but I'll not be in the parade (too slow, too hot). The festival's supposed to be really good, and held in a town that's a dead-ringer for the one in the movie "Doc Hollywood" - just replace the giant dancing squashes with giant dancing shrimp!!

Lane...You missed the Port Royal Oktoberfest last year and regretted it (the food there is FANTASTIC, especially the Shrimp Gumbo) so don't kick yourself twice: October 18 on Parris Avenue (literally, main street) in Old Port Royal, about 5 minutes from the house. Runs 11am - 3pm. Full, judged car show, craft tents, MANY food tents, a wine tent and several beer tents (ummmmmm.....beer!)

Local calendar here> http://www.classicsofbeaufort.org/calendar.html

gn

I'll talk to Pam about the thing in Port Royal. That sounds like fun. Weather permitting, I'll see you at Bessinger's on the 1st.

AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHH!!!!! I HATE WEBERS!

The car drove great the other evening, so I hopped in this morning to drive it to work. It sputtered and farted like it always does when it's cold, so I didn't think much of it at first. After a mile or so I was trying to convince myself that it was still doing it because the temps were in the low 60's - WRONG! Sometime between Wednesday evening and this morning, a piece of quantum matter spontaneously appeared in one or more of the idle jets. I guess I'll be dinkin' with the carbs out in the parking lot at work.

I am hereby starting the "Fuel Injection For Lane's Speedster" (FIFLS) charity. Donations accepted in cash or check. Sorry, no credit cards.

UPDATE: Got a stubby screwdriver from the lab and pulled the rear jets on both carbs. One had a little blockage, but not too bad. The other had a hunk of the paint from the floats hanging out of it. After cleaning and reinstalling, it now runs properly again. I shoulda overnighted those new floats.

Looks like it's possible that those scientists over at CERN have succeeded in their quest for "Remote Matter Creation". That is, the creation of specific types of matter (similar to paint chips, in this case) over a considerable distance, AND right through the "stuff" of a planet.

Who woulda thunk?

Slam a few bazillion particles together, point 'em at Charleston and Whammo! There you go! Instant carb crud!

They've been able to create that stuff right inside of Lane's carburetors from a distance of 4000 miles in such minute quantities that they can materialize it right inside of his idle jets!!!

Hans, at CERN: "Hey Fritz! Look ot how ve cun aim und concentrate dis new particle stream right at dot litte Speedsta in America!"

Fritz, over his shoulder: "Ya! Let's crud up his Vebers!"

Whoa....

These guys are good......

Whew!! I'm glad somebody figured it out.

Lane....While you were exchanging love notes with the WEBER boys, did you ask them what that "black paint" was and it's purpose?

Just a question....

Wow! Those guys at Weber Carbs Direct are fast. The parts were on the doorstep when I got home. That's two days order to receipt. I know what I'll be tinkering on this weekend.

You done yet?

You done yet?

You done yet?

Nope. I spent today helping Mike Lempert get his '56 Healey running again. Almost there.

geeeezzzz.......

Ok, it's done now - sorta. It is all back together with the new floats, and it runs pretty well, but I do have an unusually high idle that I am having trouble getting consistent. No doubt the carbs need to be synched, but I don't have a gauge. Gordon, do you fancy a short trip north in the next couple of weeks? If not, I can swing by Ken's place at some point. This needs doing before the Dragon Run, but it's not an emergency.

It almost was, though. The first test drive was really crappy, as the car was running reeeeeal rich and backfiring in the exhaust quite a bit. It's amazing how a little tweak to the float level can make a big difference. Now they're at 10mm (up) and 32.5mm (down) as they should be. Muuuuch better.

Oh yeah, Mike popped by in his Healey shortly after I finished my car. He got it all buttoned up and purring nicely. It was a good day for mid-50's sports cars - real and fake.

UPDATE: Still not perfect. For the first hour of driving today it ran great, but the warmer it got, the worse it ran. It got where it wouldn't idle and ran poorly until revs where up high enough to run on the main jets. I had several backfires on the exhaust side (too rich?) including a very muffled one every time I shut it off. I was very low on gas, and filling it up improved things significantly, but it's still not as good as it was this morning. Ideas?

UPDATE to the UPDATE: Just ordered new intake gaskets on Gordon's recommendation. Also ordered a carb synchronizing tool, and one new float. The float is to replace of of the OTHER new floats, that looked a little suspicious in one spot. Weeeee'll see..........

"UPDATE: Got a stubby screwdriver from the lab and ..."

Heh, heh. Didn't someone have a picture on here a few years ago of the Porsche factory guy tinkering on some Solexes whilst a stub of an unfiltered German cigarette hung loosely from his mustachioed schnitzel-hole?
Lane, I have this awful image of you in a Tyvek suit and a hair-net (think lab tech doing bloodwork, not lunch lady), using a snail gauge and chomping on an unlit Arturo Fuente and holding a Dogfish Head Ale.
The little dog is at your feet, and you're muttering, "Molly, get on outta there now. Those CERN boys will be over here in a minute, and I can't be cleanin' your pee off the tires when they walk through the door."

Ok, now THAT'S funny!

No Dogfish Head Ale, though. Some Samuel Adams Honey Porter will just have to do.

I just scored a bunch of those Tyvek suits from a buddy who works for the Water and Sewerage Department in the next town over. They;re REALLY cool. Great for everything from junk-yarding to full-on spray painting a car.

Never knew how much I needed them until I got 'em.

Lane, re your "update". It sounds as if you've either still got a plugged idle jet or one or more of the cylinders are lean at idle. Check your plugs, I'll bet one or two are not quite as sooty as the others.

You work on your own Webers and didn't have a snail until now? Say it ain't so.

I leave the mixture settings to a friend of mine who does have a snail. However, he's almost a hour away, so having one of my own is going to be a convenience.

I also found that I can get very close by painting on a mark for the position of the screws, and then counting the turns in until it's seated. If I remove the screws, I can get them back in exactly the same position that way.

I don't THINK it's clogged jets again, because I have made those damned Webers almost surgically clean inside. I intend to remove the carbs AND manifolds this week to replace the gaskets. I'll check/replace the plugs when I do that.

Lane - Very timely post for me. I am planning to clean my Webers soon to see why my fuel pump runs, when the engine doesn't, and one Carb sends precious fuel to the floor. Keep up the good work.

Lane, idle air(read:snail needed) and idle mixture are two separate things. You need to set the air first, everything needs to be balanced and synched. Any variation between two barrels on the same carb can be fixed with the idle bypass screws. Leave them all closed and adjust up a low reading cylinder with the bypass. Make sure the engine is warmed real well before you mess with anything. Then you can set the idle mixture, which as you know also involves low speed running, up to about 2500-3000, which unless you drive like Cory(no offense!) is most of your driving. I use a dwell/tach, set it to the 1200 rpm range for the most sensitivity, so I can see small rpm changes. I can do it by ear now, but the tach really helps if you haven't had much experience. Pick one barrel and screw it out until it starts to sag in 1/4 turn intervals. Wait 4-5 seconds for it to settle after each adjustment. Then bring it back slowly until rpm peaks. I usually richen it about 1/16 of a turn from peak rpm, some people don't, some do. After you do all 4, you may find your idle speed too high or low. Then you need to adjust that(throttle stop screws), making sure synch is maintained, and then repeat the mixture process, one barrel at a time, until she's really purring. At this point, I shut it down, and turn each screw all the way in(not too tight!) and write down the turns for each cylinder. Turn 'em back out, check the mixture one final time, and you are done. Any more questions Lane, call me.

Thanks, Danny. We'll see how this week goes. I HATE having to do this so close the the Dragon Run. No time for resolving a screw up.

PS - On Cory's car idle speed = about 80 MPH ;-)

Like Danny, I've found that the snail is good for me for course adjustments, but to get it to really smooth out I just listen to it and watch the exhaust tips to see how it's wobbling.

I also make sure it's really warmed up, as it'll act a lot different at different warm-up temps.

My biggest time consumer, now, is getting the linkage adjusted left to right. Now that I have the heim joints on the linkage it's all so tight that you notice mis-adjustment more than before. I loosen the turnbuckle link on just one side and then twist it gently back and forth at idle to find the loose center of travel, then spin it gently to the "tight" side where the linkage is just touching on the throttle and lock it in. That usually does it.

gn

Lane, really the best way to sync/adjust is:

1 valve adjustment
2 timing and properly warmup engine-take her for a nice blast!
3 disconnect one downlink, set sync of left/right carbs at idle w/snail(AIR)
4 make sure all 4 barrels are equal(or very close) w/snail. bring up the ones that are low w/ idle air bypass(small slotted screw w/8mm locknut at base of carb)(MORE AIR)
5 set mixture using tach or ear(as above) w/idle mixture screw, no snail needed(FUEL)
6 recheck/set idle speed to where you want it(AIR)
7 finally, reattach linkage/downlink, verify air(snail reading) doesn't change. If it does, adjust one downlink.(AIR)
8 VERY IMPORTANT: Hold or have someone hold the engine speed at 2500-3000. Verify same reading on snail from left carb to right carb. If it is off, make it THE SAME! This is the only way your engine will run as smooth as can be if the throttles are synched at light throttle cruise. I loosen the driver's side link and adjust it with the engine singing along at 3000. Then I snug the jam nuts and verify it didn't change(AIR)


Notice, it is mostly about the air. Your engine can only run smoothly and evenly if it is drawing the exact same amount of air into each cylinder. Once this is correct, you can then adjust it to also draw in the exact same amount of fuel into each cylinder. Then you have the smoothest running jewel on the face of this planet, AND you did it yourself!

I did mine in April, haven't touched it except to check the oil and put gas in.