Rear end sitting too high

I have a Beck 06' that is sits too high in the rear. It seems the car sits about 2 inches too high (comparing to other speedsters I've seen). You can actually see about 2-3 inches of tire. I have seen pics where the fender actually looks like it covers part of the wheel. This is the look I am going for.

I have adjusted the spring plates to the minimum that I can. But this still has the car sitting too high. Any suggestions or comments would be great.

Thanks,

Jeremy

Jeremy - if possible, post pics of your car and the spring plates as a matter of reference for opinions. SOMEBODY on here will have the answer for you! This is a great resource for tech info.

Adjusting the spring plates should do it. No insult intended, but have you moved the car since doing the adjustment to allow it to settle? I had mine with about 1.5 inches showing above the rim, adjusted it down to where the top of the rim was at the same level as the fender (too low for the pipes and driveway) and now have about 1/2 inch of tire showing. That really chould do the trick. Like MUSBJIM said, pics would help.

Assume you have the spring plates with the adjuster? You can also pull the torsion bars and reset them to lower the rear. Do a search here it was covered - might also be in the Articles section.

If you don't have adjustable springplates get these:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=194572

I did and now my car sits as it should; compare the before and after photos.

Here are a few photos of the problem along with a pic of the spring plate. I adjusted it as much as possible without actually coming out of the threads.

Ricardo, you after pic is exactly how I want the car to look. The camber on the wheels was also off until I adjusted the spring, and now the camber is fine. I need help here fellas!

Jeremy

Hmmm... You do have them adjusted all of the way down. Next step is to follow Wolfgang's suggestion. It WILL solve the problem, but it can be a bit of work. You will have to:

1. Jack up each side of the car.
2. Remove the rear wheel.
3. Unbolt the springplate from the rear swing arms (3 bolts).
4. Unbold the torsion bar (spring, whatever) cover plate and remove it, along with the rubber thingie (4 bolts).
5. Using a scribe of some kind, mark the springplate and end of the torsion bar so that you'll know the relative positions.
6. Beat the !#$% springplate off of the torsion bar, being very carefull not to pull the it out or you'll lose track or where it was set.
7. Reposition the springplate on the end of the torsion bar - probably one notch should do it, two at most.
8. Reassemble.
9. Repeat on the other side.

The hardest part is getting the springplate off of the torsion bar, particularly without pulling it out too far. It's not the end of the world if it happens, but positioning it properly will take some guesswork if it happens. It sounds a lot scarier than it is.

Contact Carey at Special Edition and see if he concurs with our suggestions.

Jeremy,
I did it by way of the torsion bars. I had to do the right side twice, I guess because these cars are all a little squirly here and there. It's worth it, the car feels soooo much better with the rear down a bit.

Thats Corys girl in my car

Ah, the one he wouldn't let us meet in Carlisle.

...and rightfully so...

Gee, Jim, you've never even met us and you have us pegged ;-)

I have everything off, but there is not quite enough room for the swingarm to completely free the spring plate at the rear. Do I need to disengage the brake cable or can I "jimmy" the plate out and then adjust it. Also, Lane, you said not to pull it all the way out. How much room do I have to work with to clear the teeth but not complete yank the thing off the torsion bar?

I also read that I need to jack under the spring plate to adjust it, is this true?

I don't want to pull it off without understanding this.

Thanks,

Also, how do you get the !@#$% spring plate off!?! And then back on? I'm thinking a Hammer, a bulldozer, and a good kick!

"a Hammer, a bulldozer, and a good kick!" That's about right. I considered some C4 explosive myself.

Yeah, that part's tough. I was able to remove the three bolts attaching it to the swing axle and move the swing axle aft enough to drop it down out of the way (without disconnecting the brake line). Once the cover plate for the end or the torsion bar is off, you just use whatever's handy to beat/pull/force the spring plate out. It's a matter of properly applying brute force. I may not have been clear earlier, you MUST remove the spring plate. It's the torsion bar you don't want to pull all the way out of the car. You DO want to pull the spring plate off of the torsion bar. Again, I recommend calling Carey Hines for any wisdom he can impart. Check the website for contact info. They can forward you to him.

The torsion bar is cut with splines on each end. Pulling either end out will allow you to move it; however, pulling the fixed end in the center of the car means you have no marks as to where it should be set. It then becomes trial and error. I removed the torsion bar access hole in the body (little round piece of fiberglass) and whacked on the end of the torsion bar while whacking in the other direction on the back side of the spring plate. It took a while, but eventually came out. Be careful not to hit the side of the car and f$%k up the paint or you'll hate yourself (and me). The spring plate will fairly easily come apart then into its two components. Only the outer, shorter one is actually fixed to the torsion bar. The relationship between it and the longer one connected to the swing axle is positioned by the spring plate adjuster.

If you get the spring plate off of the torsion bar without pulling the bar out, and you marked it properly, the rest should be easy. Just rotate the bar one or two splines in the right direction on each side and reassemble.

When you put it all back together you may want to apply some lithium grease just in case you have to (heaven forbid!) pull it off and do it again.

Regarding the "jack under the spring plate to adjust it" questions, I haven't done so, although it might make it a little easier to turn. I just jack up that side of the car to take the load off. Either way, you don't need to disassemble anything to adjust it. Unfortunately your adjuster are already all the way down.

I'll email you my phone number when I get home this evening.

Do yourself a favor and get this tool before doing anything:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D7047

Ooooo, yeah! I want one!

Ricardo, what does that tool do exactly? I got the spring plate off, but now I am having a hard time getting it back on. I try to align it, then I use a hammer to get it on. But I can't even get it started. It falls off everytime I strike the thing. Any tips or tricks to get this thing back on?

Ricardo, I forgot to ask you how many splines you moved it. Your car looks exactly like mine now in the before shot, and I want the look you have in your after pic.

The tool is basically a clamp or compressor that gets hooked up to the top of the rear shock tower and the bottom of the spring plate. As you turn the lever it compresses the spring plate. Check with your local VW supplier; it should be a little over $20.00 and worth every penny. With respect to the splines; in my case we just adjusted the bolts on the adjusters. We did Jjr's car the hard way (his IRS car doesn't have adjustable spring plates); right off the bat I don't remember the exact number of splines but we followed Gord's (Nichols) technical instruction on how to do it and it came out wonderful. Check this out: https://www.speedsterowners.com/knowledge/article.asp?id=214

Hey all, thanks for all the advise. And a special thanks to Lane, man you saved me from a extra weeks worth of work! Check out the before and after, I think it made a world of difference.

Thanks again

Oh yeah!! Much better! Very glad to help.

Do you have some upward adjustment in the springplates now? You might find that you scrape on driveways, etc., sitting that low. The common wisdom is to set it so that the top of your rims are level with the top of the fender openings. If you can do it with the springplates, it's a 5 minute deal - if you even want to change it. You may be fine just where it is.

I'll bet it handles better now, doesn't it?

...YEAH BABY, that's what I'm talking about!...

Looks great, Jeremy. Bet you feel pretty good about yourself having done that job on your own! Now get out there and DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!! Woooooo HOOOOOO!

Hi Jeremy.
Keep an eye out for irregular tire wear my friend.....
My car sat like your "after" photo until I installed a camber compensator. It now sits a lil' higher but, the tires are wearing much, much better.

Cool! A whole lot better!!!

Jeremy,

How's your camber now? Mine sits much like yours, but the camber is way out and the inside of the tires wear badly. I'm going to raise mine about 1" to try to get the camber more perpendicular. I don't know if there's anyway to adjust the camber other than changing the ride height.

Hey ross from Sacramento!
I was considering raising my rear by torsion bar adjustment because, for me, the tire wear was intolerable. Before I took that rather complicated step, I installed a CB Perf. camber compensator. The guy I bought it from at Bugformance claimed "ride hight will not be changed".
Well, happily for me, the compensator did raise my car about an inch while greatly improving my cornering and, my new tires are wearing great. Win-win-win for me!

Yes I raised my rear too. It had the look Jeremy was looking for but it was just too low for driveways, etc and kept scaping the exhaust.

One thing to consider, my car has relatively low profile tires, 205/50 I think. So to get the "proper" look my car actually sits quite a bit lower that a car with say 185/65 tires.

I'd rather save my exhaust.

I actually bought some EMPI coil-overs from CIP1.com. They're adjustable and I am going to install them without messing with the torsion bar. I'm hoping it will give me a little stiffer ride and not raise the car too much. They should be here Thurs. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Hey Ernie,

Got any pics of the camber compensator? I saw that, but it didn't say anything about changing the ride height, which is what I'm ultimately looking for. If the coil-overs are too much, then I might try the compensator. I'm looking for a lift of about 1" - 1.5". Did it stiffen the ride any?

A decent Camber Compensator properly installed, will increase your ride height about 1", and stiffen the overall rear suspension at the same time.

HOWEVER! There are several different ones out there, and the amount of height and stiffness increase depends on the thickness of the spring-stock (bar) used and how it was heat-treated.

Still, the 1" increase should be well in the ball park, and the overall improvement in handling should be worth it.

gn

I have a CB camber compensator and the ride in my car is really surprisongly nice - much better than my old MG Midget. And it corners absolutely flat.

Try this ross...

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=463
Gordon called it right... I believe the net gain was better adherence to the road in the curves and an improvement in wheel angle to the ground for more even tire ware.
I don't think the ride became "harder".
May I suggest that you check in at Bugformance of Sac. and thereby skip the shipping charges from CB.
Just my humble opinion of course!

I installed the EMPI one and yes, it does make the car corner safer. It's designed to eliminate wheel tuck (and thus the possibility of rolling over) in swingaxle cars during cornering.

Hey Guys (and Angela) -

Is there a difference between a 'camber compensator' and a rear 'stabilizer bar' and do they have different functions/advantages?

YO Jimbo!
I believe that rear anti sway bars are available but rarely used. I think compensators are more common because of lower price and ease of install.
JMHO, of course,
Ernie

Thanks, Ernie - did you have a rear stabilizer on any of your 'bugs'? Pros / Cons - I'm just curious as to how they compare on these rear suspensions.

Jim:

An "Anti-Sway" bar is a round bar attached to the rear trailing arms of Independant Rear Suspension (IRS) cars. The center section of the bar (it is in a large, rectangular, horse-shoe shape) is then attached, via clamps and bushings, to the rear torsion bar tube for support. It tries to make both wheels the same with respect to the body height - i.e; if the car tries to lean one way when going through a corner, the anti-sway bar will attempt to pull the high side down whilst pushing the low side up and making it corner flatter. Anything larger than 1/2" diameter will make a noticeable difference (improvement) in cornering and handling, while at the same time making the overall ride a little bit harsher. I'm running a 19mm (about 3/4") rear bar, and I can out-handle most Cobras and quite a few 911-series cars in the corners, but I'm also running big tires (205X50 front, 225X50 rear). Quite a few of the IRS cars on here have them, in various thicknesses.

A "Camber Compensator" is a flat, heat-treated piece of bar-stock, usually 1/4" or thicker (depending on how much stiffness you want) which looks like a single leaf from a leaf spring. It is mounted parallel with and below the rear axle tubes on a Swing Axle car, such that it spans across (under) the transmision and is clamped to the axle tubes close to the wheel hubs. The idea is that it will force the two axles to sit more level and the wheels more vertical, rather than out-board at the bottoms of the wheels. (As a swing axle car is lowered, the geometry of the rear axles forces the bottoms of the wheels outward.) In general, it works much the same way as an anti-sway bar, but the geometry of the rear axles is different - Swing axles move up and down in an arc defined by the length of the axle from the transmission, while IRS wheels can only go straight up and down (no arc). quite a few of the swing axle cars on here have camber compensators installed.

They both take about the same amount of effort to install, but I think the IRS bar is a little easier - neither is difficult.

Bear in mind, again, that BOTH will make your car handle VERY well, but also ride stiffer - you'll be able to tell whenever you go over a crack in the pavement.

gn

There you have it Jim!

Gordon / Ernie - Thanks, guys, for the insight! Now I have a better understanding of these suspension items. So now, with all things considered (availability/price/installation) I'll probably install the camber compensator.

My VS is strictly a 'cruiser' but if I decide to throw 'er hard into a turn, I don't want my apex to be the fire hydrant on the other side of the street! LOL

Jeremy - have you installed a camber compensator since you lowered your ride?