Stand on the cheater bar. That's my method. Hop on it a bit to get the hole lined up. I think I'll go for the hitch pin too, so I can show up with my baby Moons off and Danny P will know that I am one hip SOB, ready to race.
How they did it BITD
I’m almost to the point of water boarding my brother’s to get them to confess to who has the 21x36* that came in our Kombi’s tool kit. I have the pliers, and they’re one of my favorite tools.
* Wheel crown bolts and alternator bolt.
eta: I could stand it no longer. I found one on eBay and bought it. I’ll use it when I put my new drums on this winter.
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I have the spark plug tool and the lug wrench from my old 356s, plus maybe an open end wrench or two. I had the leather roll up pouch too. But no longer.
Sadly, as kids they were our first tools. We used them on our bikes and go-karts and they got scattered to the wind. Sadly, who knew those spare tire tool kits would one day go for $3,000-$4,000. (Then again, wtf would have guessed that our bus would be worth $200K< some day)
I think I have an VW axle nut with stripped threads some where in my shop. Last I saw it, it was on my arbor press being used as a spacer. When I return from Baja I'll take a picture of it for you non believers that think one can't be stripped.
The first Never-Seize I ever saw was labeled by International Harvester Corp. It came in quart cans and was recommended for liberal use on our D-8 Bulldozer Track assemblies with 2" studs/nuts. Later Caterpillar sent out a bulletin to stop using it due to fasteners failing.. We continued to use it but adjusted our torque settings (lower) after testing bolt stretch with micrometers. Never-Seize is good stuff for preventing seizing up of lots of things but dangerous if used haphazardly. The D-8's (two of them) worked 16 hours a day in the Shoal Canyon Dump moving all sorts of trash and garbage around. High acid content and water were responsible for a lot of the damage to these two dozers.......Bruce
@aircooled posted:I think I have an VW axle nut with stripped threads some where in my shop. Last I saw it, it was on my arbor press being used as a spacer. When I return from Baja I'll take a picture of it for you non believers that think one can't be stripped.
Bruce, do you think it stripped from over tightening, or more likely from rust on removal? I’ve had a few that were really hard to remove, had to let them soak for a while and them apply the heat.
@aircooled posted:I think I have an VW axle nut with stripped threads some where in my shop. Last I saw it, it was on my arbor press being used as a spacer. When I return from Baja I'll take a picture of it for you non believers that think one can't be stripped.
The first Never-Seize I ever saw was labeled by International Harvester Corp. It came in quart cans and was recommended for liberal use on our D-8 Bulldozer Track assemblies with 2" studs/nuts. Later Caterpillar sent out a bulletin to stop using it due to fasteners failing.. We continued to use it but adjusted our torque settings (lower) after testing bolt stretch with micrometers. Never-Seize is good stuff for preventing seizing up of lots of things but dangerous if used haphazardly. The D-8's (two of them) worked 16 hours a day in the Shoal Canyon Dump moving all sorts of trash and garbage around. High acid content and water were responsible for a lot of the damage to these two dozers.......Bruce
I use Never-Seize a fair bit, especially on my FJ- it's my daily driver. The local road crews do salt the roads for 4-5 months of the year, and with our FJ outings being frequently wet and muddy it sometimes sits for short whiles with the undercarriage caked before getting hosed off. We get a lot of wet snow that can freeze as soon as it hits the road, is then compacted by traffic (especially when temps are falling in the late afternoon/early evening), becomes very slick and I can't imagine the traffic nightmares if we didn't use salt- but boy, does it take it's toll. As mentioned before, I reduce torque by about 15% any time I put something back together (and Toyota has a torque spec for almost EVERY nut and bolt on this thing!). Bruce, do you remember by how much you guys reduced the torque specs?
Fluid Film sprayed inside the frame rails once yearly is an important anti-corrosion step as well. That's what I just may be doing today...
I've never stripped a VW hub nut, but I have had the occasional school bus wheel lugnut that stripped, especially on the rear wheels, due to rusting from road salt. It was a tough spot to get a torch in there to heat the Bejeezus out of it, so once in a while one would strip. Then a 20 minute job became an all day affair - removing the drum, pressing out the old stud and pressing in a new one. 🤬
@El Frazoo posted:I have the spark plug tool and the lug wrench from my old 356s, plus maybe an open end wrench or two. I had the leather roll up pouch too. But no longer.
I have the full tool roll for my (son’s now) BMW R60/5. When I bought it in 1990, they were still available from the factory for a reasonable sum. It’s not Hazel but another German brand, and most of the same tools as a VW touring kit. Only tire irons vs lug nut wrench. And the spark plug wrench doesn’t have the cool 4-way articulation.
Sorry Al...I don't remember what the torque reduction was or how much the fastener stretch was but it was only a few thousands of an inch as I recall. I do remember that the torque wrench was a hydraulic mechanism with a pressure gauge to determine the torque with a calculation based on the PSI. The only other place I ever saw a torque wrench like that being used was on the giant nut (read 6" diameter nut here) that holds the rotor head in place on a Sikorsky military helicopter. (Navy SH3A) It was used to loosen and tighten that nut and the jamb nut on top of it. That shaft was hollow, splined and tapered. Another hydraulic tool was used to press the rotor hub off and on. That one nut job took about 2 hours as I recall.
Rick........I was told that the guy stripped the nut tightening it. It was said that he did was using some sort of torque multiplier and did the calculations wrong. So I guess the axle shaft is tougher than the nut.......Bruce
This may help a little bit as to torque and some of the reasons why the nuts loosen.
Give it a read-through: https://www.apexspeed.com/foru...55507-Rear-axle-nuts
If either of the drum clamp surfaces are worn, rough, or uneven in any way, the drum can loosen. Using the cheap spacer/washer that comes in the kits today IS A FACTOR in the drums loosening. The cheap spacers compress, even 0.001" of compression will loosen the nut.
If the spacer BEHIND the bearing isn't true, you'll have these problems as well.
These surfaces can be checked for runout and trued up on a lathe.
If your axle is bent, that could be it as well. That I'd just replace, you'll likely not be able to bend it back straight.
All that to say, I'll buy the first guy who can strip an axle nut with clean threads the beverage of your choice the next time we get together.
Stan.......Maybe a "Nut Stripping Contest" could be an event at the next Carlisle show !
The winner gets two new unstripped nuts and a whole can of Never- Seize ! Rules may apply,,,,,,,Bruce
@aircooled posted:Stan.......Maybe a "Nut Stripping Contest" could be an event at the next Carlisle show !
The winner gets two new unstripped nuts and a whole can of Never- Seize ! Rules may apply,,,,,,,Bruce
Sounds more like a "Stripping Nuts" contest.
@aircooled posted:Stan.......Maybe a "Nut Stripping Contest" could be an event at the next Carlisle show !
The winner gets two new unstripped nuts and a whole can of Never- Seize ! Rules may apply,,,,,,,Bruce
As a champion nut-stripper (tighten it until it snaps or strips, then back it off an eighth) I'd enter, but Carlisle is always at a bad time of year for me.
I borrowed a battery impact from the local trailer shop ", his words were" Be careful that's 650 lbs at full tilt. Uh huh I thought, I threaded a new chrome moly gland nut into the crankshaft then (all I did) was short " blurp " with the impact and there was the end of the gland nut now broken off the threaded end broken off in a just rebuild engine. Holy shty balls engine tear down was my first thought ... Then I simply I reached into the broken off threaded portion with a finger and unscrewed it from the crank :~) .
@aircooled posted:Stan.......Maybe a "Nut Stripping Contest" could be an event at the next Carlisle show !
The winner gets two new unstripped nuts and a whole can of Never- Seize ! Rules may apply,,,,,,,Bruce
Count me out for that contest...I value my tool bag too much.
@Alan Merklin posted:I borrowed a battery impact from the local trailer shop ", his words were" Be careful that's 650 lbs at full tilt. Uh huh I thought, I threaded a new chrome moly gland nut into the crankshaft then (all I did) was short " blurp " with the impact and there was the end of the gland nut now broken off the threaded end broken off in a just rebuild engine. Holy shty balls engine tear down was my first thought ... Then I simply I reached into the broken off threaded portion with a finger and unscrewed it from the crank :~) .
650? The battery ones reach peak torque QUICK, too. Snap-On or what?
I bought one over the summer. It says it's rated for 330 ft. lbs. I used it on some frame bolts on a rollback. It snapped two of them clean off. I use it to REMOVE stuff mostly.
I VERY carefully use it to tighten, just to snug. I always use a breaker bar or a torque wrench for the final torque.
It is possible that gland nut was defective. Probably a good thing you snapped it BEFORE the engine was fired up.
A Milwaukee M18 Fuel 1/2" high-torque (2767-20) impact is rated at 1000 ft/lbs of tightening torque, and 1400 breakaway. I'm not sure I believe that, but even if it only delivered half that (it'd be way more than that), it'd put 99% of the Chicago Pneumatic impacts (mine included) back in the toolbox.
I've got a bunch of M18 stuff. That impact looks pretty nice.
Back to the regularly scheduled program:
SITREP: I just wish I could have a decent comment about how easy it was for me to set a proper torque on by rear axle disk/hug castle nut with new bearings in place. The reason I'm not there yet is I've bumped into that part of the job that nobody mentions and if you have not been there before, it's one of those things that you don't know that you don't know, so it comes as a serious WTF when you bump into it. The issue in question is disassembling the CV joint so the half-shaft can be removed and the bearings accessed. I have IRS equipment. CV joint is secured with six funky Allen type socket head bolts. Shoulda watched more YouTube videos. As I'm sure most of you already know, these bolts require a 8 mm 12 tooth socket wrench thingy, or you have no hope to loosen. I found this out after trying to use a regular hex allen wrench, applied blind from the outside, so I could not readily see that the socket head was not a normal hex allen. Did not work. But . . . Now I know. So I spent a day surveying local stores (including Harbor Freight) that might sell one of these, and came up short. These socket head bolts and appropriate removal tool , apparently, are a very specialized sort of thing, found only on CV joint flanges. Something everyone who sells VW parts on-line knows about, but fails to mention. They also carry these bolts and tools as standard stock. I have said tool and new bolts coming from Jbugs, CA, ASAP. So now I know.
Good news: New long-spline disks/hubs arrived and look like a winner. If I really can get the CV joint apart and reach the bearings, I might be able to do the whole deed. Current strategic plan is to assume that the CV joint is fine so no need to replace/rebuild on that one. N.B.: some internet (YouTube) experts suggest that if you think to clean and rebuild the CV, better you should just buy a new assembly complete, both ends plus the half-shaft and boots, factory greased and ready to go. The thinking goes: if you are renewing a worn high mileage bearing set, the CV is probably worn too. My eqt only has about 20,000 mi, and I think/hope the CV has not been affected by the loose castle nut and subsequent destruction of the disk/hub spline. The factory CV/shaft assemblies turn out to be readily available for about $100 -- cheap.
It's a hobby . . . It's a hobby ... It's a hobby . . .
Kelly, I take some tape before I start and tape around the CV joint joint seam, this keeps the joint from disassembling itself. Make sure the bolt centers are clean so that the tool gets inserted all the way.
Once the bolts are removed you can then move the whole axle assembly up out of the way so have something to tie it up as the axle stub will be coming out the back towards the tranny. When handling the CV joint you do not want to pull the joint with any force towards you or you could over come the tape on the joint causing it to move and sometimes lock up.
I put the castle nut back on the stub to protect the treads and tap the stub out towards the tranny.
On the subject of replacing axles I just disassemble,clean and put new boots on. My axles are original 1975 and thus from the fatherland.
I put a couple of lug nuts on the studs to hold the axle from rotating as I remove the CV bolts as you need to be straight on or they tend to distort and slip the head.
@Stan Galat posted:A Milwaukee M18 Fuel 1/2" high-torque (2767-20) impact is rated at 1000 ft/lbs of tightening torque, and 1400 breakaway. I'm not sure I believe that, but even if it only delivered half that (it'd be way more than that), it'd put 99% of the Chicago Pneumatic impacts (mine included) back in the toolbox.
I've got a bunch of M18 stuff. That impact looks pretty nice.
Mine is a Porter Cable. I bought it because I already have a bunch of their 20v Lithium stuff, and it was $160 w/charger and HUGE battery. Plus it was down the street at the local Tractor Supply. It stays with the race tool kit.
I have two drill/drivers, a sawzall, a 4.5" circular/trim saw, and a flashlight(which we almost never use). I now have three chargers and 5 batteries. They are all compatible which is worth a lot to me. No hunting for chargers or batteries. I have two chargers in the basement, and one in the garage mounted on the wall. There is always a fresh battery available.
I bought the first drill years ago, and Michelle bought me the rest as a kit for Christmas a few years ago. She uses it more than I do LOL!
Agreed, that Milwaukee stuff IS nice, and I would buy it if I wasn't already invested in Porter Cable.
@El Frazoo listen to Mike here, he speaks from experience. Even if you think the socket heads are clean, insert the tool only and tap lightly with a hammer to seat it. There is nothing worse than a stripped 12 point internal socket head.
If you do strip one you can get a small (8") pipe wrench in there to grab the outside of the bolt head and break it loose.
I first experienced these bolts in the 80s with my old 1st gen. Scirocco.
I seriously doubt there is anything at all wrong with your current axles, as long as the boots aren't ripped. Normally you don't need new bolts either.
Funny anecdote: My Vanagon Westfalia started making a clunking noise when going on and off throttle one winter. I bought new shafts and was preparing to swap them. I got under there and figured out that sliding them in and out towards the transmission and hub fixed it. The grease was merely cold, stiff, and displaced away from the bearings. After moving the grease, the noise disappeared never to re-appear. The store took the new shafts back, no problem. I figured there was NO WAY that the whopping 90hp was gonna wear the joints out!
@MikelB posted:Kelly, I take some tape before I start and tape around the CV joint joint seam, this keeps the joint from disassembling itself. Make sure the bolt centers are clean so that the tool gets inserted all the way.
Get a couple nuts and put them opposite each other leaving two CV bolts in the joint. This prevents the boot/metal cover/joint from coming apart. I then tape a plastic bag over the joint to keep everything clean.
Every Tuesday I get an email from Harbor Freight for "New Tool Tuesday".
This week featured Quinn torque gauges/adapters. These go between your socket and ratchet/breaker bar and indicate actual torque, like a socket extension. They are available in 3/8", 1/2", and 3/4" drive.
The biggest one is of interest to me, it registers to 750 ft. lbs. The 1/2 inch drive only goes to 250, which explains why I've broken MANY 1/2" breaker bars, even Snap-On.
@DannyP posted:@El Frazoo listen to Mike here, he speaks from experience. Even if you think the socket heads are clean, insert the tool only and tap lightly with a hammer to seat it. There is nothing worse than a stripped 12 point internal socket head.
If you do strip one you can get a small (8") pipe wrench in there to grab the outside of the bolt head and break it loose...
I seriously doubt there is anything at all wrong with your current axles, as long as the boots aren't ripped. Normally you don't need new bolts either...
Great tips from Danny here. I will add that if you had to dig dirt out of the socket heads, after inserting the tool and tapping it in as far as it will go, remove and check the bottom again with whatever you used to clean it originally- it's very important that the 12 point socket seats ALL the way to the bottom properly! The only time I've had a problem with a cv bolt is when I didn't clean the inset properly before trying to remove it.
And Kelly, I also agree with Danny that there's probably nothing wrong with your current axles and cv joints. You'll hear a click turning when a cv goes bad so until then you're better off keeping what you have. They're probably better quality than the replacement stuff you're looking at.
@DannyP posted:Mine is a Porter Cable. I bought it because I already have a bunch of their 20v Lithium stuff, and it was $160 w/charger and HUGE battery. Plus it was down the street at the local Tractor Supply. It stays with the race tool kit.
I have two drill/drivers, a sawzall, a 4.5" circular/trim saw, and a flashlight(which we almost never use). I now have three chargers and 5 batteries. They are all compatible which is worth a lot to me. No hunting for chargers or batteries. I have two chargers in the basement, and one in the garage mounted on the wall. There is always a fresh battery available.
I bought the first drill years ago, and Michelle bought me the rest as a kit for Christmas a few years ago. She uses it more than I do LOL!
Agreed, that Milwaukee stuff IS nice, and I would buy it if I wasn't already invested in Porter Cable.
Oh, heck yeah - there's nothing wrong with Porter Cable. They're good tools for shorter money than the big "M".
As you mention, once you are in a "system", you should stay there. We're in the M18 system, so we've got all manner of 5 AH batteries and tools. We carry a 1/2" hammer drill, a 1/4" drive impact driver, a sawzall, and an angle-grinder on the trucks. There are probably 6 or more of the drills and impacts floating around, with the flashlights nobody uses (but they come so it can be a "3-tool kit"). I wish we had more angle-grinders floating around.
I'm an absolute sucker for the blow-molded cases. I have no need or want of "tool bags", I want a case where I can keep all the bits, etc.
I've got the full-sized skill-saw and an oscillating tool with the carpentry stuff. My carpenter son-in-law has ALL of it, an M18 pin-gun, etc.
That 1/2" impact looks pretty sweet.
Again, my friends, txs for the tips. I was wondering about how this CV thing might want to come apart. So far the videos I have seen really do not address this, exactly. They do mention covering the exposed part so it stays clean. And I think maybe I have bunged up one of the bolts using the wrong tool to try to move it. Jury still out on that one. Digging the dirt out of the socket is a good tip. Will advise. Pipe wrench? How about vice grips? Worst case might by a metal blade multitool, cutting the head off. Then having to deal with the remaining stud. Gaaack. Sure not looking fwd to that. Pray for me that the right 12-pt tool seated deeply even though the socket is somewhat damaged, works.
As for the current parts being any better or worse than what I might buy again today, this car is a JPS special, so pretty sure these parts are same as what one would find today, i.e., EMPI, or whatever would be the best price. The saga continues . . .
Battery powered hand tools, of all kinds: a blessing and a curse. I have few DeWalt carpentry types. Various ages, and all different batteries, all different chargers. The Tower of Babble. They eliminate the cord when in use, but require you to have a charger and spare batts all over the place, at the ready; spares often are not cheap. And as I have said, even w same mfr, the batts do not always match.
I suspect that with the right torx bit for those CV joint bolts you'll be able to walk it back out if you gently tap it in to seat it fully. The worst thing you could do is to cut the head off, but that would certainly release the bolt. The remaining shaft sticking out will be over 1/2" long through the CV mounting flange so it should remove easily w/o a head.
I'll look in the shop to see if I have an extra 12-point torx bolt kicking around in my spares stash that I might send to you, unless you already have one - Stay tuned.
I soak the bolts in parts / brake cleaner then cut off 2/3rds of the bristles on a tinning brush that makes for easy cleaning.
@El Frazoo posted:As for the current parts being any better or worse than what I might buy again today, this car is a JPS special, so pretty sure these parts are same as what one would find today, i.e., EMPI, or whatever would be the best price. The saga continues . .
Not to cloud the water further than it already is, but there is a difference in the quality of the CV joints. If yours are worn out, you want German Lobro joints. I’m pretty sure CBP sells them.
Price is irrelevant. Buy once, cry once.
I just discovered Torx sockets because Porsche uses those on their coil on plugs. So it looks like I'll be buying more tools.
I wrote: "I'll look in the shop to see if I have an extra 12-point Torx bolt kicking around in my spares stash that I might send to you, unless you already have one - Stay tuned."
I found one in stock along with the serrated washer. If you need them, let me know and I'll get it out Post-Haste.
My neighbor races Moto GP track bikes and has those Torx 12-point head bolts all over his bikes. He says to first wait for the Torx 12-point bit to arrive and try tapping that in to seat it and then try slowly backing the bolt out (clean the dirt out of the bolt head first).
If that doesn't work, then an appropriate sized "Easy-Out" tapped into the bolt head should spin it out and if THAT doesn't work you should be able to get a big, Honkin' pair of Vice Grips on the head of the bolt and turn it out.
Next to last resort is to use a Dremel to cut a screwdriver slot into the bolt head and turn it out and last resort is to carefully cut off the bolt head and then the rest of it should spin right out.
Good Luck!
@LI-Rick - Prob'ly because it looks a lot like a Torx bit? 🤷♂️
But, OK..... I'll call it a 12-point from now on.
@Gordon Nichols, I’m a tool whore, and am a believer in the correct tool for the job. As an aside, there is also a double square, that has 8 points. These are commonly used to hold the skin on enclosed trailers. They look a lot closer to a Torx than a Triple Square.
@El Frazoo, when you get the correct driver, after cleaning out the heads and tapping the driver in, if it doesn’t immediately come out, STOP. Grab a pair of vice grips, and put those on also. Then turn both the driver and vice grips at the same time. I’ve never failed to get one out with this method, even here in the land of rust.
@El Frazoo posted:Again, my friends, txs for the tips. I was wondering about how this CV thing might want to come apart. So far the videos I have seen really do not address this, exactly. They do mention covering the exposed part so it stays clean. ...
The CV's just detach at the flange. You won't be messing with the bearings inside those boots.
Just bag them up and do the R&R you need to on the hubs, then bolt them back in.
Here's Bridget's with the "wheel of death" vehicle speed sensor I made for the Suby swap. Had to take those troublesome bolts out to do it. I have the correct socket if you want to come get.
Update: magic 12 pt "spline" driver, as I see it is called, arrived. It's not an allen (six flats) and it's not a Torx (six stars) , to be precise. Fits like a champ in five of the six sockets. Specs say these bolts are 25 ft-lb tight. 3/8 ratchet handle makes it work. Keeping the axle from turning was a bit of a trick, and my approach involved replacing the disk/hub on the spline, then tightening a wheel lug nut back into the hub, like really really tight. Has to be really really tight because the torque you will be putting on the C V joint flange bolt will want to loosen that lug nut. So put the lug down tight, and then use your lug nut wrench to hold the disc steady while you loosen the 12-pt socket head bolts (~25 ft-lb) with the magic tool and ratchet handle. I'm here to tell you: it worked. And so what about the bunged up #6 bolt? @Ll-Rick (the hyperlink thing is not working ??? ) and I appear to be on the same beam. Plan A: I Applied the 12-pt bit, it did not want to go in there; slapped it a bit with a small hammer, not too much, but enough to know that the bit would not seat. That socket is/was too damaged. Damn. Plan B was as mentioned by others: vice grips. I happen to have a new pair with fresh teeth, which I think helped. Was a struggle, but I'm here to tell you that this worked. All six bolts are removed. Big relief, but short lived. None of the really cool videos on line show exactly how you just drop that half shaft out of the way. @edsnova says the same thing, just drop it down, bag it, and hang it out of the way. I guess for these folks that's what it does on an IRS rig: just drops out of the way. Well ... It certainly did not just drop down. It certainly did not budge with some light tapping. Nor with some light prying at the seam with the bearing holder structure. So I am stumped once again. The joint appears in all videos as a clean and slightly dished flange, so the two halves, with bolts removed should just slip past each other without having to undo the tranny end, which of course is exactly the same arrangement. The CV joint half axel assemblies I see on-line are symmetric, it seems, as they do not have an inner or outer, or left or right end. So the bolts are out, but I can't move the CV joint flange, wont budge. So now what?
There is a small lip on the stub axle. There is plenty of in-out movement in the joints to allow them to move back past the lip and out of the stub axle flange. Probably just some rust holding it together. Put 2 bolts back in loosely, then wack it with a dead blow hammer. Should come loose.
@Gordon Nichols posted:
He already ordered them.
Kelly, the small lip that Rick is talking about is a tight fit. It needs to be, that way the joint fits tight and the axle runs TRUE in the stub axle, which we can all agree is a good and necessary thing. I mean, who wants an out-of-balance axle flopping around back there?