Rebirth of the Mangels 4 lug 10 hole wheels

4 lug, 10 slot? I’ve never heard of such a thing. The only Mangels I’m aware of are the Wide 5 VW/356 and the 5x130 Porsche 356C/911/912 wheels. I’ve never seen a 4x130 that didn’t have 8 slots.

Mangels were always 8-slot on 4-lug wheels, but Beck made a run of 4-lug/10-slot wheels 10+ years ago.  I doubt they have any left, but you could check.

Actually the very early Mangels from the mid 1980s were available 8 or 10 hole, but were almost exclusively used by ENVEMO and I don't believe they were ever exported as a part for sale.   Later only available in 8 hole and then when they quit altogether we remade the 10 hole version.

Yes, they are still available in painted silver 15x5.5" 25mm offset only.  Should be listed on our parts page (beckparts.com) or call Brad in the office.

@chines1, will they fit the early baby moons or the later flat 356C disk brake hubcaps?

We make a flat 356C/912 hubcap that does fit the wheels, but the original 5 lug flat caps are just a tinge larger and don't fit.  I modified a set to properly fit the larger moons, but they have the same problem that the late mangels had in that the dimples that hold the moons were too shallow and they don't hold well.

It is so great that Mr. Hines participates in this group!

@chines1 posted:

Actually the very early Mangels from the mid 1980s were available 8 or 10 hole, but were almost exclusively used by ENVEMO and I don't believe they were ever exported as a part for sale.   Later only available in 8 hole and then when they quit altogether we remade the 10 hole version.

Yes, they are still available in painted silver 15x5.5" 25mm offset only.  Should be listed on our parts page (beckparts.com) or call Brad in the office.

“Learn something new every day.”

@chines1 posted:

Actually the very early Mangels from the mid 1980s were available 8 or 10 hole, but were almost exclusively used by ENVEMO and I don't believe they were ever exported as a part for sale.   Later only available in 8 hole and then when they quit altogether we remade the 10 hole version.

Yes, they are still available in painted silver 15x5.5" 25mm offset only.  Should be listed on our parts page (beckparts.com) or call Brad in the office.

So would that be 3.75" backspace? The only reason I ask is that a lot of retailers sell wheels by backspace instead of offset.

Center/zero offset of a 5.5" is 2.75" from either edge plus 25mm/1 inch offset. Is my math correct?

https://www.cokertire.com/whee...chrome-vw-wheel.html

I'm told these are 10 slot like the image shows...

@Wrenn Smith posted:

https://www.cokertire.com/whee...chrome-vw-wheel.html

I'm told these are 10 slot like the image shows...

I’m somewhat suspicious given they’ve photoshopped the wheel center. My bet is that if you ordered 4x130 wheels, you’d get 8 slot.

I’ve already been wrong once in this thread, so I’m going all in.

But seeing as Carey has them in stock, I think getting them from him is a no-brainer.

I recently bought a set of 4X130 10 hole wheels from Mobelwagen...the 430B Interceptors. These are actually identical to what came on my VMC Speedster direct from Hawaiian Gardens but I picked up a set in black as the chrome was just a little too much for me. No complaints about them.

That looks like a great source for wheels. Unfortunately, the offsets don't work for me.

@DannyP  your math is correct EXCEPT when talking about wheels.  LMFAO  I'll explain...  offsets are measured by actual rim width, which isn't actually the width of the rim, rather it is measured from between INSIDE the outside edge of the bead and the inside edge of the outer lip, to the same spot on the opposite side of the rim.  So basically it is the measurement of the inside of the rim... Backspace is measured to the outer most edge of the inside of the wheel, so there is actually a variance in measurement by the thickness of the lip/edge of the rim, which can be roughly 1/4"-1/2" depending on the manufacturer.  Thus a 5.5 25mm backspace mathematically calculates to 3.75" in theory, but in reality it measures + the lip thickness and makes the backspace more like 4.180 to 4.250.

Mobelwagen is the manufacturer of the Vintage 190 wheels, however I'd rather buy them from Greg since he is in our industry and I like how bette ethan EMPI who also sells the same wheel.

@Revelstoker  wasted the first batch of 4x130 Vintage/Mobel wheels did not clear disc brake calipers and you had to add a spacer or run drum brakes.  Did you find that to be the case?

While our steel wheels were designed for disc or drum, on occasion we'll find one where the weld got a touch too big and you have to clearance a few thousandths off of a weld or it will touch the caliper just enough to make a "click-click" noise...

Good visual on offset vs backspacing -

@chines1 Thank you.

@chines1 posted:

Mobelwagen is the manufacturer of the Vintage 190 wheels, however I'd rather buy them from Greg since he is in our industry and I like how bette ethan EMPI who also sells the same wheel.

@Revelstoker  wasted the first batch of 4x130 Vintage/Mobel wheels did not clear disc brake calipers and you had to add a spacer or run drum brakes.  Did you find that to be the case?

While our steel wheels were designed for disc or drum, on occasion we'll find one where the weld got a touch too big and you have to clearance a few thousandths off of a weld or it will touch the caliper just enough to make a "click-click" noise...

I have discs on all corners and the wheels are a perfect fit...no spacers needed.  The wheels that I ordered from Mobelwagen are the identical wheels that VMC sold my car with right down to the laser etched Mobelwagen logo but just in black.

So---what wheels would fit under the rear fenders of a CMC with disc and the usual credit card gap on the drivers side. I didn't build the car but it's not going anywhere until I can no longer drive a stick.

Sadly, none of them have enough backspace to fit on the back of my CMC.

My CMC is IRS. Some of the wheels might fit a swing axle CMC.

@chines1 posted:

We make a flat 356C/912 hubcap that does fit the wheels, but the original 5 lug flat caps are just a tinge larger and don't fit.  I modified a set to properly fit the larger moons, but they have the same problem that the late mangels had in that the dimples that hold the moons were too shallow and they don't hold well.

I have a set of Carey's whees with the C-style flat cap. I had to modify the wheel crests I had to fit a single post hole. My crests were three posts so I cut and epoxied the post to fit in the center.