Recommendations on engine upgrade

I currently have a stock 1600 single carb that can barely get out of it's own way. What are my options, bore, 1915,2110,Subaru?

I'm not looking to build a racer but need more power. I rarely ride over 65-70mph but want to get to 65-70 fast (torque).

Unfortunately, money is a factor. What is the best bang for the buck? Apx. engine and labor cost.

This is a good question. Every time I think about getting some more power it seems like I'll need about $3-5K to make a real difference.


My Mexi-Crate does launch pretty hard off the line though!

i am in the middle of a T4 swap. so far it isn't cheap, but should provide enough ummmph to get up to the speed limit.

Probably the best bet is to get a long block from someone reputable and then transfer all of your peripherals (cooling tins, alternator, stuff like that) from your existing engine to the new one.

For decent power and longevity, I would recommend either a 1915 or a 2110. Both seem to be popular on here, and both should give you what you're looking for.

You'll need new carburetors and intake manifolds, and for either of those engines you need something like Weber or Dellorto 40 mm's.

Plan on spending $3000 - $5000 for everything

Stephan - looks like YOU'RE planning on getting launched hard by those Mexi-beers!!

How much ya want to spend? Condition of current engine (and miles)?

Costs are estimated parts costs - If current engine in great shape - add dual carbs and good exhaust ($500) Replace heads with larger valved ones ($500) Replace pistons for 87/88mm ones ($220 - do with heads to save build cost) Next route is tearing the block apart - and replacing w/CW crank, cam, boring case for larger pistons, lightening flysheel, etc ($750+++).

Any body remember "Stroker MC-Gerk"?......"Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go..."

"there is replacement for displacement" Probably very true with a 1600. Perhaps sell your engine to some needy soul and just buy a whole new 2110 or so? Also be careful on rear end gears. You may have a properly geared 4.12 now. With a larger engine, you may be better with a 3.88? As Jake is prone to say - it's the system. Can you drive a buddies speedster with perhaps a larger engine to get a feel for your potential change?

I have no history on the engine so I'd rather spend the $$$ on a new rebuild than put good money into a bad motor. Odometer only reads 2000km. I am hoping to keep engine and trans to around $4000. Is that achievable on a 2110 and a matching trans?

I have found that a slip down in the tire size like from a 25 1/2 to a 24 1/2 can help you get near a 3.88 window but without the expence. That will help in the low end but it will cause a higher rpm ad 60. something to be leary of.
The gearing and the tires all come into play to find the sweet spot you want.. I just had a 1699 built to find i had to take it down to correct it for the wrong cam and to open the heads to 57.5 cc. it has a stock 85,5 bore and a 74 stroke crank, Plenty low end gettyup now pending the changes it may lose some of that But it should still be pretty quick on take off.
Even then the extra tourqe can handle a steapper gear to keep the rpms down.

I can tell you That $4,000.00 might be enough to get you a engine..But a tranny too?????

This site is a real good venue to ask questions . and these Guy Can Help you through the insanity of figuring out what you want and need


PS!!! THANKS GUYS

"I am hoping to keep engine and trans to around $4000. Is that achievable on a 2110 and a matching trans?"

..... not so much.

Any recommendations on where to buy a 2110? I see some motors on Ebay but don't know where else to look.

Bob,

You can find several people who assemble engines of all types and styles on www.thesamba.com Even more importantly you can find feedback on those people that is far more detailed than places like ebay.....

Bob: There are many places to look for VW stuff not only on the west coast but closer to us here in the east. Here's a few places that might interest you. You could Google VW engines or parts and find many resources.

http://speedstershop.com/viewtopic.php?t=203 (Much info. here)
http://www.peekperformance.com/
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/
http://www.vintageperformance.net/
http://www.mdaircooledperformance.com/index.php
http://www.vw-store.com/

~WB

Check these guys out: http://www.steelbuggin.com/

The basic price for a 2110 cc longblock is $2,100; you can add your desired options to that and, of course, it'll increase the price accordingly.

You wanna go nuts on options, buy a copy of HOT VWs mag, and drool over all the stuff offered up there. Many motor sellers, and parts to do it yourself of every stripe. Too much choice, really, esp'y if you don't know the lingo, or what is what and who is reliable and who is not. These forums will help on that last score. $400 seems kinda low-ball. You doing the wrenching yourself? Your idea to be wary of putting some top-end $$ into an unknown mill is good thinking, esp'y if you will be seriously pissed to have to do it over. Some guys think taking an engine apart and putting it back together a time or two is fun.

Yes, it seems from doing some research, the best I can do is a turnkey for about $4000. I just need to find a builder that is reliable. From the feedback I'm reading from other forums, I only know who not to buy one from. Anyone have any actually experience buying a motor and having it shipped? Who?

Bob,

I have been using BugStuff, West Brownsville PA
for years." Jack" (724) 785-7000
He is has a large supply of new and used VW parts on hand, he has been around 30 plus years I trust what Jack builds...Pls tell him I sent you ~Alan

Bob, Stan, check this out: http://www.spyderclub.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=10166

Mark

Jake Raby has a reputation for knowing what's what. My engine came from GEM VW by way of JPS Motorosprts, in my turn-key 2332. They all have websites, w/ lots of pictures and prices. Wild Bill and Alan M. are going to give you some pretty reliable info -- they have been around the barn a few times. Blueprinted is worth the money, I think. Engine is built by hand to close tolerances, all parts micedd to fit, weighed and balanced; things put together just right. Means smooth running, high revs possible, more life, as I see it. Good luck.

Thanks all for the feedback. Much appriciated. I'll give Jack a call and see what he ca put together for me.

Here's another, posted today by a well respected spyderclub memeber:

http://www.spyderclub.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=91003&sid=8acd1c6a75bc501fdc46c19a26829cc4#91003

OK, I'll grant that you can get a used engine for $2500, or a mildly built, non-stroked long-block for the same price. Add a pro-street transaxle with some extras and your bumping up pretty hard on the $4K figure Bob is looking for.

Put a good exhaust on top of those figures...

..... to say nothing of good carbs, an ignition system, etc. A decent stroked long block runs about $5K by itself, depending on the builder, etc. Dressed out, they run about $2K more (and to think.... I got into this hobby because of my perception that VWs were cheap). A 2110 (which is what Bob was asking about) would happen to be a stoker, and with the carbs, exhaust, and transaxle he was asking about would run well over the $4K budget.

Which isn't to say a nice package can't be done for $4K, just that it isn't going to be a nice 2110 and transaxle.

Stan,.....Got any idea how much it would cost to increase the diaplacement of a 5 litre small block Ford by 50-60 percent?

VWs are "cheap" fun....It's all realitive......Isn't it?

Leon C.

The basic turnkey 2110 by Chico Performance is exactly $4K....

.... which leaves the man about $1500 short for the "matching transaxle" and exhaust.

I'm just sayin'.....

At some point everybody comes to a fork in the road with this whole thing. None of us came into the hobby with any intention of spending the equivalent of a new Corvette on a plastic toy car. But-- if you want 135 reliable H/P, and the stuff to support the power, then you are going to spend money by the bushel-basket full. Want 200 hp? Be prepared to blow a major hole in $10K.

I had two cars with basic 1776s, and freeway flier transaxles. Exhaust for this combo is cheap and available everywhere. Front disc/rear drum brakes are perfectly adequate. Get a sway bar, a camber compensator, and away you go with $1000 left in the $4000 budget for various goo-gaws-- reliable, and good for 80-100 hp.

Need (want) more? A 140 hp 2110 means at least $4000 for the engine. Even a mild 2110 will need either a remote oil cooler, or a DTM, or both-- I've got more than $1000 in my car for the whole enchilada. Don't forget the welded/balanced German fans-- they give those away, don't they? Another $500 for an A1 sidewinder (more if you'd like it coated, or to be quiet enough for your likely right seater), and $1000 for a basic pro-street 3:88 transaxle (I've got custom gearing-- $1500 total, and I shopped around). Now the brakes are iffy, and rear discs will cost another $300 for 4 lug (assuming your wheels will fit with the increased track), and a lot more for 0-offset wide 5s. Add in a big sway bar, heavy torsion bars, and Konis, and you've got another $1500 at least. Pan based cars need a Kaefer brace at about the 100 hp mark-- nice..... I paid $350 for one I never used on the JPS.

A big-power Raby Type 4 turn-key is $15000 (that's three zeros after the 15) or so, engine only. At this point, maybe it'd be good to have a Porsche 5-speed transaxle, and some bracing to keep from twisting the car in half?

Somewhere in all this, I think somebody needs to dispense a reality check, and ask not whether it is hypothetically possible to do a 2110 for $4000, but rather-- how would $4000 be best spent on an engine/transaxle. I'd think a savvy buyer on a budget would land with a nicely built, balanced 1914-- with OEM VW tin (or a DTM), remote cooler, forged pistons, Dellorto/Weber carbs, and a pro-street freeway flier transaxle. $4K might STILL be short for this, but there wouldn't be an absolute NEED to spend another wad of money on stuff to support the engine you could barely afford to put in the car in the first place. 100 honest horsepower is about 30% more than what most mexi-crate Kadron equipped 1776s are putting out.

But.... then again, what do I know?

Start out with a quality case, balance the crank, rods & flyweel as a unit, 1915 piston/jug set, Total Seal rings, big valve ported heads, Eagle 120 cam, decent carbs, quality ignition and a high flow exhaust system.....tra-la you're good to go w/o a motor mortgage.

I have a 2110 and matched transaxle in my speedster, and I am very happy with it. Both engine and trans were built by Roger's European in Downey, CA. The engine was built a couple of years ago at a cost of $3500. It included a turnkey motor with a set of refurbished Weber 44IDF's, straight-cut gears, 041 heads, mild cam 1.14 lifters, remote cooler, 1700lb clutch, pressure plate, lightened flywheel, and all engine tin. For the trans, he put together a 4:12 R&P, stock ratio first-fourth gears,.82 fourth, supper diff, and welded 3-4 gear set all for $1600. This was definitely a very good price for the system, and so far it has proven to be very reliable and much more powerful than my 1600. It is a bit more than your budget, but speed cost money. I can cruise down the freeway at 75-80mph comfortably and still have plenty of throttle for passing, but I am down to about 17mpg. I do have a foot made of lead though!

I would say, save your money, do it once and do it right.

Look like I will hold off til after the holidays. Drop down to a 1915 displacement and get a decent transaxle and exhaust. Raised my target to $6000 (including install).
After 30 years of having Harley Davidsons, I have not duluted myself to thinking this will be a cheap hobby. Thanks for the education guys.

Bob:

If you've ridden Harley's for 30 years, then, beyond having a tired butt you also know that you can pay through the nose for stuff, or you can shop around and get deals here and there.

Stan's not far off the mark for someone who might go to the most reputable places, pay good money and get the top-of-the-line, reliable stuff. We all do that from time to time - hell! I've got a Gene Berg Shifter! Is it worth $300?? Damned if I know, but I wanted it, I had the money and now I've got one (and I LIKE it, so there!).

On the other hand, I built my 2,110 myself, it's mostly CB performance parts, got the cooling stuff real cheap from a local VW pack rat and refurbished it myself, put on Dellorto carbs and a Gene Berg exhaust, later on added an external oil cooler when I wanted it to run cooler. It's VERY reliable, cruises effortlessly at 80+ and probably cost me just North of your original $4K budget. I also bought a Pro-Street Rancho transmission back in the 90's for $795 (Stan's estimate is probably more current at around $1K)

So raising your power budget to $6K is probably more realistic for new stuff. If you shop around during the Winter you might be able to beat that (maybe substantially) but that would be gravy.

In my humble opinion......you'll probably like a 1915cc engine a lot. How you drive and what you expect for acceleration would determine if you would miss the extra you might get from a 2,110. Most people would never miss it.....especially for $1K-$2K extra.....

Gordon
One of the "Speedstah Guys" from South Carolina

Stan, I know what you mean....pouring lots of money into these cars can be addictive. I never had the courage to add up all the bills for my engine/tranny upgrade.
I even had custom 1 5/8" heater boxes and a custom exhaust system made, including a modified merged header.
As far as a Gene Berg shifter goes-it was one of the best after-market items I purchased for my IM. Awesome, lighting-fast shifts (along with a lock-in-reverse feature).