Recommended exhaust for Speedster Replica

Hey gang, I have the regular dual exhausts on my 2002 Vintage speedster. Would anyone recommomend switching to the EMPI 4 tip exhuast system. Give me your pros and cons.

Thanks Russ

Russ, IMHO - Sidewinder Exhaust from A-1 Performance would be your best bet!

That EMPI is horrible. I'd stick that A1 on, but I wanted the correct looking 2 tip. I went with vintage speed's exhaust... Google them. They are dyno proven and high quality!

What makes the EMPI horrible ?

I'm sorry, let me stand corrected, whoever makes that 4 tip monza exhaust... I looked at the EMPI two tip , also known as the "euro" style. I almost bought it, but I realized that it is pretty loud. The four tipped deal, that I think EMPI makes, is very restrictive. I think what really limits us, is that low valance in the rear... I'm not sure an EMPI 2 tip would clear the back!

your 2002 might not be empi, but tri mill. if so i think its great with a small performance engine. bill

I've seen the internals of a lot of the China made VW exhausts just fall apart, clog, and just be a general PITA. Jake and I dyno tested several of them as well, and it seemed they were pretty restrictive. I'll have to call Jake up to verify since it's been a few years, but if memory serves we determined that the limits of the quad tip and twin tip (EMPI, Tri-mill, etc) were about 80-90hp. I know that we bolted several of them up to one of the larger 1915cc motors and it choked it out, created an insane amount of back pressure, were about the equivalent of over jetting 2 jet sizes (again IIRC) and even caused misting back though the velocity stacks.
That said, I use a custom made Tri-mil on my smaller motors and they have been great. For larger motors I'd do an A1 sidewinder for sure...
Just my 2c

The A-1 made a very distinct performance improvement in my 2006 VS 1915 that came with the dual tipped tri-mil. It's not cheap but sure makes my car much more pleasurable to drive.

carey, whats custom on the tri-mill. bill

KW, you could always route the exhaust through the bumper risers like a '58 like I did to get more clearance :-). Actually, Carey did it and it is a one of a kind build, not easily accomplished. It was my one external customization that is still factory in appearance.

4 into 1 Hideaway header - exhaust runs up along the right valve cover

Russ -

For your visual reference, here are pics of an A-1 Sidewinder on my '95 Vintage. Equal length tubing, Magnflow muffler tucked up & away in the right-rear fender well, exhaust exit can be whatever your preference (mine is center single tip).

My Speedy is a daily driver and I don't hot rod around much (I'm just a cruiser). My engine is 1835cc, dual Kadron (small) & 1.25 ratio rocker arms. Improved breathing with this A-1 made a significant & noticeable improvement in performance & mileage.

I found my A-1 a bit too loud with my 2110cc engine, so I added a 12" bullet muffler from Summit Racing. It now has a nice mellow sound and it hasn't noticeably affected performance.

Jim,

Your exhaust looks good to me. Was it a complete kit that you could install at home?

The IM exhaust on mine has a funny little 'phph' sound, like an exhaust leak sound but it's out the tailpipe and it that bugs me because it's a driver's side output. The whole thing looks more complex than I'd think it needs to be. It even has a mysterious 1/2" pipe tapout that points up out of one pipe. I don't have a photo of it but it looks weird to me. As far as I know it was part of the original IM build.

Before I re-did my car, I had a 1641 with the dual quiet-type mufflers sticking out each corner in the back. I think those used to be a Beetle standard system.

At some point, Sartwell's brother Linus switched me out to a barrel-type muffler with the twin tweety pipes sticking out the middle of the car. I had to cut the rear valence in two half-moon shapes to get them to clear adequately.

With the install of the 2366 (now a 2424), Sartwell installed a SPAM can-looking FlowMaster. That was loud, even with the bang-deadening adapter bolted to the end. It was a silencer of sorts, like a mute in a trumpet, but wholly ineffective for my application.

When I re-did the whole works with the Suzuki 650 ATV muffler in the back right, I had to half-moon the body again. When I did that, then took the car to the drag strip, I scraped the rear apron on the raceway and had to cut it again, this time from right to left, all the way across.

As a result, the back of the car now looks like it's even higher off the ground than when I had that smaller engine and IRS suspension.

And it's no longer quiet. I guess my contribution to this thread is that cutting the fiberglass isn't the end of the world. It can still look minimally modified, even with tweety pipes.

Jim...those are some nice looking pipes you have there. I also see a heater box in one of the photos. Am I right in figuring that the heater boxes are of the larger..mabybe 1 5/8' size too otherwise you'd be only getting partial benefit from the larger pipes ? Thanks.

David, the sidewinder heater boxes. ARE larger.

And they're also flanged rather than slip-fit.

Rob.
I noticed that you have no cooling tin under your engine. Do you have any issues with overheating?

Ken / Dan - Yes the exhaust system you see pictured is a complete system that you can install yourself. In order to optimize the use of the A-1 on my VS, I eliminated the typical slip-fit/clamp connection of the heater-box exhaust pipe to exhaust system. I had a flange welded to those pipes for a solid connection with the A-1.

Troy
I haven't noticed a problem. I have only had the car since May but we had an incredibly hot summer here and I did not notice any overheating. Could you send me a picture of what it should have there?

Jim nice pics. I noticed what looks like a piece of missing "gasket" near the corrugated heater hose-it's the interface between the engine and the "apron". Lotsa heat can get sucked up in there. (just making an observation!)
SS

Bill,

I had Tri-mill drop the tips and level them back out in order to clear our rear apron. The stock Tri-mill wants to pass through the rear apron on a Beck...

Rob.
This is what should be up under there.

Troy, is Rob missing the thermostat in that picture too ?

Scott - Thanx, my brutha! Old pic, I've replaced the gasket since then. The underneath used to look like Troy's pic (above).....but that was nearly 80,000 miles ago. 8-)

P.S. - I haven't forgotten about the 'longboard' T-shirt. Just have to get to the next event that sells them.

OK Jim-just looking out for you! You can call me Brutha, but please don't call me Mutha!

Rob, a very good reason for having the tin installed below is to protect the pushrod tubes from something kicked up under your car. They're not heavy duty and are easily bent or torn. Either way you lose oil at least, and maybe much worse.

You'd be amazed at how a small rock or bolt for examples can do under a car, and even larger items can be catastrophic.

A woman was killed driving across the San Rafael-Richmond, CA. bridge when she ran over a piece of rebar. She had her daughter with her who told the investigators that she had let out a big gasp and then slowed the car to a stop before dying. When the fire department had a hard time removing her from the car seat it was found that she had been impaled by the rebar coming through the floor, he seat, and up into her, killing her. (true story from approx 1990 - I don't exactly remember the year)

Jim-

That was (ahem) me on the "longboard" shirt.

You sir, are the man.

BWAAAAAAAAA....I may not have forgotten about the t-shirt, but obviously about the recipient. Senior moment, my bad, Stan!


Scott, you can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay...

Ken - Thanks for the advice.