Remote oil coolers

Read this thread:  https://www.speedsterowners.com.../911-fan-cooling-kit

I had a Bergman 911 type fan shroud in my Intermeccancia at one time.  I do NOT recommend buying one (see above thread link).

Go with a stock doghouse shroud, including a thermostat and flaps.  Most speedster owners who went with an external cooler mounted it above the transmission.

My cooler is above the transaxle and I can only hear with the engine off. If you live in a cool climate be sure to add a temp valve so you are not cooling your oil when is is cold. Trust me your engine will never reach operating temp otherwise. That means NO heat whatsoever for the cabin.

911 fan shroud will not fit a stock Beck anyway.  In order to make it fit you have to cut a section out of the inner engine lid .  There are a few guys on the site who have done this and may post photos for you (Rich D)

For oil cooler, I'd HIGHLY suggest using a Setrab single or dual fan pack unit.  I use a single in conjunction with a stock shroud and I use a dual when the stock cooler is deleted.  The Setrab unit can hang from the bottom side of the rear shelf in a Beck, along side the nose of the gearbox.  Use the stock Setrab mount kit to space it off the underside of the shelf and that is plenty of room for great cooling.  No need to have this unit down in  the actual airflow.  They work great just as I just described.

BTW, and as Ron said, I do not recommend a Bergman (or any) 911 style shroud.  I do have several clients that have used it anyway, and them seem fine, but nothing cools like the stock shroud.  2nd choice at this time would be a Raby DTM.  I have yet to see a 911 shroud that had engineered veins to direct airflow.  Doesn't mean they don't exist, I've just not seen one.

Here's the hole necessary for the 911 type shroud to clear and an additional hole at the upper portion was added (see green X) for good measure for more air intake. I have not driven my car much in the rain. The times I have have not yet caused any water problems.

Wow, that cooling system sure looks nice.  Adds about 20 years onto the car in "tech" look.

Sure wished I had details on if it actually worked.  I think a guy did a study on Samba with actual thermocouples and he took temp readings from the heads.  switched to a dog house, did a test, then put on the original tin and ran the test again.

I will try to find it...but I think his conclusion was that no matter what the "stock" system cooled the best and he said that the German engineers got it right.

I just wonder what the degree "delta" was.  If you're talking + or - 5 degrees then does it really matter...then go with the look right?  If you're talking + 50-100 difference then yeah...

Can you see down through the grill into the engine bay with that cut out?  Looks like you can pretty easy.  What about water intrusion, just in case it rains...I intend to daily drive mine so that will be a concern for me.

Man it looks good though.

Zulu

Zulu-  I totally agree; they look great, but they aren't ideal, especially the Bernie Bergmann units (they don't have much, if any, for internal air direction). Jake has done some serious data collection on these shrouds, as well as the stock doghouse and his own DTM (down the middle) unit. Doghouse was #1 (the engineers at VW really did design a fine piece), the DTM was #2 (I don't believe there is a thermostat/flap assembly for faster warm ups, but I could be wrong), and the 911 style shroud (don't remember who made it) was a distant ? The problem (IIrc, Jake corrected me on another thread over this detail) is the temp difference between the front and back cylinders; it's very hard to get the air to turn that tight of a 90 to cool the first 2 cylinders (2 & 4) adequately. The front 2 (1 & 3), on the other hand, get lots of air. The thing can deliver a lot of air, but not nearly evenly. There are European versions that attempt to address this, but I don't know how successful they are.  

I remember that thread on the Samba; someone (I'll try to look it up later) did a bunch of work with internal directional vanes trying to make a 911 shroud and had some success, but again, I don't remember how much. Al

Rich, when I put a BB shroud in my IM I also had to do some cutting.  You can see in the top of the photo how much I had to cut out.

I was lucky (not getting caught in a heavy rainfall) until my wife and I drove to Tofino, on the west coast of Vancouver Island.  We got caught in a horrendous rainstorm and water started to leak into the engine compartment.  Unfortunately, my fan sat directly below the opening, so the water dropping onto the fan was spun to all parts of the engine compartment.

What a mess!

I ended up covering the entire opening with plastic and slowly drove the last few miles to our hotel.

Zulu, thanks, it does clean up the engine bay quite nicely. A little history on the engine and how it got there. This 2666cc, twin-plug engine was built by Raby approximately 2000 for a guy out in CA. His dream for it to go into a Spyder never materialized and it came up for sale here 2 years ago. It had never been installed and sat in a crate for 10+ years. This engine was built before Raby started using his DTM shroud. The common belief is that without the vanes (see attached photo, mine has none-yet), these 911 shrouds don't cool properly. My car gets a good summer work out at times with ambient temps in the mid 80's to low 90's once in awhile. My temps will go up and go down with the type of driving and ambient. However, some of this is surely attributable to the shear size of the engine. This summer I will have more instruments to better monitor the actual numbers. The hole below the grille is two-fold: clearance and more intake, At times I have considered adding some inlets hidden behind the license plate as well. I guess my recommendation and possible change to my car would be to move to a Raby DTM...research does seem to prove that it may be a better avenue to take. I have not had my car in any severe rain conditions, the few showers it has seen have never shown any problem. Vince had one on his wide body...maybe he could chime in when he feels the urge (we know he has urges).

Well I checked Jake Raby's web.  Looks like he doesn't do anymore work with the Type 1 platform.  Not even the DTM system for sale for a type 1.

He works all Type 4 stuff now...nice engines...probably WAY better in the form of technology...but 15,000.00.  Not for me...I want an "affordable" speedster...(here I go again)...probably nothing affordable about a Type 1.

They make a Center Mount cooling system using type 1 components and fan anyway, CB sells it. Dont know if it fits either...but they make it.  Back in the day (1990's when this 1st came out) they said this was supposed to distribute the air evenly across the cylinders.  This was for the folks back then who removed the oil cooler from inside the stock shroud and wanted better "even cooling" across the heads.

Wow the type 4 sure looks nice though.  I love the fan...looks like jet engine fan blades.

Zulu

That aluminum center mount thing looks cool (oh, how it wish it worked so we could use it!!) but it's junk too.

Zulu, I dialogued you with some stuff on my original Type 4 with a Cali conversion...a home fabricated version that cooled that engine very well.

hahahahaha...sooo funny.  This place and you guys are the coolest!!!  No pun intended.

Thanks Rich, i'll look over the file and video's when I get home.

Zulu

So, are you saying you're a big fan?

That style shroud is worse for cooling. Air comes off the fan tangentially. On the right side of the engine, that means the air shoots basically straight down on the top of the cylinders. By moving the fan left, you increase the distance and angle and lower cooling a bit. On the left side of the engine the air generally has to make a 90 degree turn to get back down to the cylinders. In a stock shroud there are vanes that redirect the air downward. By moving the fan left, it makes for a much tighter turn with less distance to work with. Since I don't see any vanes inside that one, it's even less effective on the left bank.

For anyone that likes a long read; one man's attempt to make the Bergmann shroud work- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=372579&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=bergmann&start=0

And more http://www.germanlook.net/foru...howthread.php?t=5973

Nice work...you found them.  I got home and ended up busy with the house and didn't have time to look these up.

I see you were up late at night looking for these...I love dedication!!!

Zulu

It was 9-10pm here on the coast (I live in Vancouver, BC) so it wasn't that late. It did take a little while, though; I didn't remember the name of who started the thread and of course, Bergmann wasn't in the title.

This whole 'try to use a Bergman "911-style" shroud' is like 

Now.....One of THESE might be cool in a Speedster:

Too bad the design doesn't fit the VW engine, cuz they really work!

Looks like a Corvair engine.

I had a Corvair Monza Spyder, 150hp. white with black leatherette, reverberator on the radio, and cut outs on the pipes.  That thing scooted, but more fun, this was in '68 - '69, in junior college, parking lot was a mud bath (no pavement just a dirt lot), we held informal time trials. Alas another car on my list, that I should  have held on to.

But what is this beauty Gordon?

Just a stock photo from the Internet.  If it were mine it would probably end up in Pearl.

I had the 140hp version (dual carbs and identical to the picture) in my autocross dune buggy.  A friend had the single-carb turbo version, but in autocross you could never get the thing to spool up fast enough - about the time the power was building you were off the throttle and braking.

Still, we flogged the heck out of those engines, never had more than the stock cooling and never, ever had cooling problems.  I've never been a GM fan, but those engines were marvels.

That same friend had a '66 Monza and I swear that it could out-handle the early 911's.  For a rear-engined car it handled very neutral.

Along those lines: http://bringatrailer.com/2014/...rvair-fitch-sprints/

I really like the newer one.

Yeah, the post-'65 models were very surprisingly quick and agile, especially those set up in Fitch's shop.  One friend had a '66 Monza that he drove to college for 4 years before retiring it (he was a commuter) and another friend had a '67 911.  Pretty much all three of us preferred the Corvair. 

BTW:  I just heard last week that the old 911 guy is restoring a '64 Mini 850 - the very same car that my late brother drove to Alaska and back in a three week span, once, back in the late '60's.  Small world.