Repair Thoughts - Rusted Seat Rail-Pan Attachment

If you were building a new speedster, I would opt for replacing the entire floor section.

 

But, since it's an existing car, and if you don't care about it being show quality, just have a welding shop weld in some patch panels, then V-groove the cracks (after drilling a hole at each end of the crack to keep it from spreading) and weld them to the patch panels along the length of the crack and you should be good to go.

That's from the thin Brazilian replacement pan flexing with each bump in the road.  I'd drill out those screws/bolts holding the tracks in, get the cracks welded up then get a 2" wide 1/8' or so strip of steel and go side to side with it ( it could go below car or easier inside the car.  It could be welded for safety.  Then bolt the seat tracks to it with big washer on bottom of car. .  I'd check the seat belt mounts too and at least add a huge 3" washer above and below the bolts.

Thank you Gordon and Wolfgang both for you input and thoughts. 

 

I will go with welding.  Have to find someone local that's good.

 

I also agree with the idea of adding a reinforcing strip of metal between the two mounting points.  I was going to do that with the seat belt mounts.  Hard to believe that only washers are used on bottom side of the floor.  Those would rip out quickly in a front ender. 

 

I just came back from the hardware store.  Saw that they had 3in wide steel strips 1/8in. and 1/4in. thickness.  Was thinking about using a 10 in. long piece running between the two seat belt mounting points under the car.  I think 1/8in. would be plenty.  Now I will also do the same for the rear seat rail mounts but inside the car.

 

Great stuff, and again thanks for the input.

 

Grant

 

I forgot to mention the floor reinforcement, so it's good that Greg did.

 

I'm also running a piece of 1/8" thick by 1-1/2" to 2" wide strip across the front and rear mounting bolt positions on my seats.  Figured THAT should hold it all in no matter what, and WAY better than washers.  It is just a strap under the floor and bolted in with the seat studs.  The floor material is very thin (19ga) and needs all the help it can get.  If you terminate the cracks with a drilled hole and then weld the cracks to the patch panels it'll hold better than original.  

 

I TOTALLY agree with adding BIG washers to reinforce the seat belt anchors.  They need help, too.

Glad I ran into this thread.  Caught my attention and I am going to do the same thing with the flat bar under the car to replace the fender washers.  Thanks for posting this problem.

 

craig

Yeah, the flat bar is SO easy to do and just makes so much sense.

I remember seeing the flat bar on the bottom side of a real Porsche Speedster for what must have been the seat belts as I believe the car had some race history.  I thought it looked a little rigged.

 

 

But, when I got to the floorboards of my car and saw the washer set up, and how the washers had already mushroomed into the pan I couldn't believe it.  Yes, the seat belt hold downs definitely merit the flat bar.  I am going with 1/4in. running between the holes and about 3 inch wide.

Aftermarket 50 State legal seat belts come with thick three inch wide washers, for bolting them to the floor.  The washers go under the car.  If your floor pan is solid, you will not pull those three inch thick washers out, in a car accident.  The fiberglass body and you will need more than good mounted seat belts to survive any serious front end collision. May I suggest driving slower and far behind the cars, in front of you ?   And, good brakes ?  No DWI. 

 

I am considering having steel tubing, custom made bumpers made, which are bolted to the front beam.  Mostly concerned about parking lot problems, with people, who don't care about their car or anyone's car, tapping my speedster.  Old fashioned steel welded to the rear sub frame and front beam will offer good protection to the body , at least, in the parking lot five mph hits.  Nerf bars offer almost no protection and I see them on many of the wide speedster bodies. 

 

My CMC speedster will not be a show car or original looking, but want it more practical and safe.  Your steel piece is an overkill if using three inch wide and 1/4 thick metal. You could lift up the entire car with that piece of steel.  Well, if you use it, sand and paint it really good, as going under the car and exposed to the elements.  I have a big collection of those large thick seat belt washers and with reading this topic, will use them under my seat rail bolts.  Good advice. 

 

My speedster floor pans do look super good. Amen ! 

 

 

Thank you all for the input and recommendations.

 

I live in the South Bay area of Los Angeles and called a number of VW repair shops, and welding shops in my area and have no one is willing to take on the repair job.  I don't have a welder (or the welding skills) but if I would this would be an easy home repair project.

 

I am tempted to do this myself using 18 gauge metal, cutting out the bad spot, and riveting in the patch.  I know that this is not the preferred route, but I know I could do it.

 

My other alternative is to drop the car off with Vintage Speedster for them to repair, but I am not that confident that the repair will be any better than what was initially done.

 

Does anybody know of a shop in the Los Angeles or Orange County area that may be able to help me with this project ?

 

Any input would be appreciated.

 

Thanks, Grant

I imagine the shops may be reluctant to do this welding for liability reasons.  They wouldn't want to guarantee the safety of any patches they do and then be taken to court in case of something happening.

 

Unless, they are all so busy they don't need the work?

 

Maybe time for a body off pan restoration.

I'de be tempted to go the VS route - just see they see result of not reinforcing area.  Rather than call - I'd go by a welding shop so they can see that it's a less than 1 hour job.  Just be sure to have all carpet and spare seat out.  A coating of Dynamat over welded/reinforced area will waterproof it (after painting with POR15 or Rustoleum. P.S.  Even a muffler repair shop can weld it up for you.

See if you have a Technical College or even a Community College in your area that teaches welding.  Maybe one of their classes could do it for you as a class project.

+1 on the muffler shop. Those guys make air-tight welds all day long. Greg has the right idea: just get it to them and they'll get it done.

Anyone with a cheap mig welder can weld in your replacement section in the floor pan. Really, no welding shop will do that ? I doubt the VW shops want to take on welding and most take the bugs or kit cars to a professional welding shop.

Try posting an ad, on Craig's list for someone doing welding at their home, maybe a retired person who did welding for a living or just someone good at it. It's not a big job. Also, check with the local community colleges for any who teach welding to their students. Locally, there are three community colleges offering welding classes. The people taking those classes usually have some cheap but workable welding equipment or a friend who has the needed equipment. Locally, is in Texas .

You would need to remove any carpet and have the area cleared out, for the welder to work on your speedster. That is a given concern or they will not do all the misc. work. --George K. ---

I use a small welding shop close to me. They mostly do trailer repairs and BBQ pits and give me weird looks each time I bring them something to weld.  Now, expect to pay one hour minimum,  no matter if it takes 30 minutes.  For them to stop and take on what is a smaller job, they usually will charge their hourly rate of $75.  I have taken in small jobs and they always hit me with $75 and I know the guy doing the welding is not making that much money for his labor.  More like $25/ hour if he is lucky, working for small business.  The place I use stay busy, so I never rush them or ask for it , like NOW. 

 

Race car fabrication shops are the highest charging, but do excellent work.  Consider they routinely put in metal panels into $100,000 race cars, some more expensive than I can think of, and they don't worry about liability problems.  Silly, to think any welding place would not trust it's welds on the floor pan. 

 

If around the rusted area is more rust, you really need to replace the entire floor pan as they cannot weld to rusted areas.  Not possible.  

 

On my speedster project, still underway, I have used what they call truck bed spray in liner.  The stuff sprays under the car and I also had the tops of the floor pans done and it looks bullet proof.  I have been tossing tools on it for weeks and cannot see any damage to the bed liner coating.   It's better than spray on undercoating.   ---George K. ---