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Hi All

I'm new to the site and forum. It was suggested I start a new thread. So here goes…I presently have a 1957 MGA roadster and I've been looking and researching companies for a replica Speedster or Spyder.  Might have one built or look for a good pre-owned. I would appreciate any comments you all might have as to the better companies. 

I've looked at all the mfg websites and in fact contacted some of the manufacturers by email. They all seem very helpful but I was wondering if you all on this forum had any opinion on the better builds. Beck and VS seem quite good. Tube frame vs VW pan? Some have tops and side curtains others do but at a high cost. Both necessary for Florida. 

 

Look forward to hearing comments

Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to all!

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  • 1957 MGA
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Not many Spyders come with side curtains and tops.  Some Spyders may have emergency use tops.  Perhaps that's why you say at a high cost.

All Speedsters I've seen have provisions for a top and side curtains.  You can even find convertible D/Cabriolets 356 replicas with taller tops, taller windscreens and windup windows (often electric powered).  That said there are many that have never used their side curtains or even put their tops up. 

Intermeccanica (IM) has the longest history of building Spreedster replicas starting in 1976 in Califorina with VW pan based cars to now in British Vancouver BC with custom tube based chassis.  Run by same family all those years - Father Frank Reisner and now son Henry Reisner. I'd start by checking them out.

http://intermeccanica.com/athird.net/our-vehicles

Last edited by WOLFGANG

Welcome Mag9. There are definitely more options when buying Speedster versus Spyders. If you haven’t done so already you may want to ask if any Speedster owners in Florida are available so you could check out their Speedsters, Spyders too if you can find some in your area. 

Speedsters will all come with a soft top and side curtains. The options here are usually whether you want the full tonneau (definitely), quarter tonneau, or soft top and if you want the windows and other bits in vinyl or Haartz Stafast cloth. In my opinion there’s nothing better than Haartz cloth. You’ll also need to decide if you want the interior in Allante vinyl or full-on leather. I think the Allante vinyl is better in terms of sun resistance and cost which is less than leather. 

If you weren’t aware there are two types of chassis, shortened VW chassis and tube chassis. You’ll find many more builders of shortened VW chassis than tube chasssis and they generally cost less. There are trade-offs in terms of options on a tube chassis versus shortened VW chassis. There are plenty of arguements about better performance and higher safety levels for an IRS rear end versus swing axle. 

Spyder builders are fewer in numbers and used Spyders as well as new Spyders are $15K - $20K more than Speedsters. 

Proximity to you is also a factor. Special Edition/Beck is in Bremen, Indiana which isn’t outrageously far from you and warranty/follow-up work would be easier to get done. 

Beck/Special Edition also offers a choice of Subaru or VW motor.  Being where you are if you’re looking for a new car I’d be looking at Beck/Special Edition just because of the logistics. If you’re buying a well sorted used car any of the manufacturers would suffice because you’d be on your own for any repairs anyway. Parts are mostly interchangeable or upgradable between manufacturers. 

Hopefully others will chime in soon. 

Driving with the top up and side curtains in isn’t much fun.  If you’re approaching this as a daily driver, my advice is don’t.  These as fair weather toys.  

If you’re concerned about getting caught out in the daily Florida cloudburst, I understand. The full tonneau actually keeps the water out better than the top & side curtains.  Just roll with a micro fiber towel onboard and you’ll be dry and rolling again in no time.  It happens to me a few times per summer in Michigan.

I’m a loyal Beck owner and highly recommend Special Edition.  @chines1 will honestly answer your questions and steer you in the right direction, even if it isn’t his product.

Last edited by Tom Blankinship

Great information all! Many thanks. I typically attend weekly car shows and Cars and Coffee events here in the Venice/Tampa area (Always a good show at the local Porsche dealer) so it wouldn't be a daily driver but close. Over the years I have had some big Healeys, an E Type roadster and the current MGA and lived in SF area in California so a top and curtains are almost mandatory for me. The MGA is a pain to get the top up when the summer Florida gully washers hit and leaking is standard so I know the issues with leaking tops. Healeys leaked like a sieve as well. Seems the Speedster is probably what I need but sure love the idea of a 550 replica. 

Not sure about the tube chassis vs VW chassis other than maybe build time and perhaps the tube chassis might be a bit stiffer and handle better. Also, not aware of the IRS rear end versus swing axle issue but it seems would be important for handling? Perhaps sway bars?

Thanks for all the great comments!

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  • Twin SUs

Here's one just a few hours from you in Palm Harbor, FL.  A Classic Motor Carriage (CMC) California wide body which originated in good ole Miami FL!  Add was placed in Sep for $14,500 for medical reasons and appears to be a decent car for a low price. Looks like it never had a top or tonneau (no snaps installed) but not difficult to add (about $1k for all parts needed).

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/cl...etail.php?id=2192242

 And here's an older (1980's) pan based IM in Melbourne, FL priced high at $42k.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/cl...etail.php?id=2216244

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Last edited by WOLFGANG

These cars (and I used that term loosely) are generally a slippery slope, made all the more difficult if you are a perfectionist.

An original A-bodied 356 was in essence (and in actuality, in many ways) a sporty VW beetle. Their reputation as sports cars was built mostly in comparison to who they were competing against. The British cars of the day were not exactly titans.

The "giant killer" reputation was mostly the the result of the purebred racing cars-- the 550s and RSKs, etc.

Why this matters is that a Speedster replica can be pretty easily built to accurately replicate that 1950s level of spartan performance. An original car weighed about 1750 lbs and made way less than 100 hp. That's a power/weight ratio worse than most modern minivans. The suspension and brakes were late 1930s tech, made "mid-century modern". They were acceptable because the limits of the car were not all that great.

Some guys can accept that level of performance (I'm looking at you, @MusbJim), and they are content to have other cars for other purposes. Most of us cannot, and that's where "the madness" comes into play. Money changes hands, parts are changed, etc. in an effort to raise the performance threshold to something less pedestrian.

The platform of these cars are antique, and it costs a lot to do anything right. There are no shortage of parts vendors and "engine builders" who cut a lot of corners in an effort to offer more performance for less money. Almost all of us have been suckered into heading down the "value" road. It's a dead-end. There's no free lunch here-- good stuff costs what it costs. Nobody is getting rich, and you don't always get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get.

There is a sweet spot for these cars, and going beyond that spot takes the cost/benefit equation deep into the red-zone pretty quickly. I've gone well past what is prudent, and one choice forces 10 others. Before long, the stakes get way to high.

If I were on the front end of the hobby, I'd recommend the following spec:

  • IRS rear suspension. Lots of guys argue this, but there's no comparison. Swing axles are dangerous at the limit. Driving quickly should not be a danger to yourself or your passengers.
  • These cars need a front sway bar and decent shocks. I like my Konis, but lots of guys are happy with oil-filled shocks. Don't go nuts with gas shocks, etc. 
  • Disc brakes on all 4 corners. These are not created equally-- the EMPI and SoCal wide-5 brakes are ridiculously heavy. Most of the other alternatives are expensive. If you can live with the later 4-lug (or with modern Porsche 5-lug) wheels, the EMPI 4-lug brakes are not that heavy or bad.
  • IRS and rear discs are going to mean expensive wheels. The back-spacing on 5-1/2 wheels will mean the rear tires will rub, unless you get them recentered. This costs money. The alternative is running narrower wheels. Narrower wheels means narrower tires, and narrow tires are limiting in the extreme. You want to run at least 185s. Get good tires (Vredeistein Sporttrac 5s, for example)
  • I've had everything from the crappiest Serrano 1776 imaginable to a 200 hp 2332 in my cars. IMHO, the point of diminishing return is a 2110 (or thereabouts). A well-built 2110 on an AS41 case with good heads (CB Panchitos are the current favorites), a counterweighted crank, H-rods, and a W120-ish cam is as reliable as an analog flat-4 will ever be, and makes about 130-145 HP. Less than this puts a car pretty firmly in cruiser territory-- there isn't anything wrong with this, but it'll be fun,  rather than engaging. More than this makes the care and feeding "iffy", and starts overloading the oiling system, the cooling system, and every other part of the car.

 

If you want your car to handle like it's on rails, run with Mustang GTs, and be dead-nuts reliable-- I'd recommend getting nice nice Cayman GTS or a MX5 with a V8 conversion. You'll be money ahead, and people will be impressed. If you want that level of performance in a Speedster replica, prepare for expenses in the upper reaches of 5-figures and reliability on the order of a Fiat (or worse). 

If you can be satisfied with some other car, the I'd recommend getting some other car. If you can't, then try not to abandon all reason in the hope of a mirage. 

Forewarned is forearmed. Happy hunting.

 

Last edited by Stan Galat

Looking for a more modern alternative?  A classic Speedster body with dependable Mazda Miata water cooled under pinnings.  1.6-2L cc DOHC engine, 5-6 speed trans, 4 wheel disc brakes, AC/heat.  Okay - not loving the wart on the hood but it could be handled differently.  Builder has all the old CMC wide body molds and is located in nearby Lakeland, FL.

https://www.rcnmag.com/garage/...-based-356-speedster

http://www.buenodesigns.com/m356-speedster/

SRS_2319

I loved the Spyder, but you better be short of statue if you want to get in with the top up! They are very very small cars. After owning a Spyder for a couple of years I sold it last year and bought a Speedster because of the lack of a top. I'm 6'-2".

Seems like every time I took the Spyder any distance from home I got rained on/in.

The Speedster was driven 700 miles home in the rain. The builder had neglected to install the windshield gasket in the front top bow, so I got wet...but I didn't drown. Having owned numerous side curtain convertibles I expected to get damp and carried towels just for such an occasion.

Both well sorted out cars are capable of long trips provided you're not to be gone too long. The Spyder has almost no luggage space. Probably enough room for a g-string and a pair of socks. The Speedster will have limited luggage room in the bonnet and behind the seats.

I would look for a previously owned car that someone else had done the sorting out. I bought a high dollar and have been working on it for 4 months in an attempt to make it, what I consider to be, road worthy. I'll be in the garage today. I haven't spent a lot of money, but a lot of time. My car had 11k miles when I took delivery.

With the guidance of those on this list I have:

  • re-shimmed the front end
  • Installed a camber compensator on the rear end
  • Turned the carbs around to access the adjustments
  • Added snorkels to the Webers to reduce idle jet blockage
  • Re-made the carb linkage
  • Replaced the fuse block to use modern fuses
  • Replaced the shocks
  • Checked the rear torsion bar spring plates for correct specification
  • Replaced push rod tube seals...they all leak oil.
  • Reinforced the floor mounts for seats

These are kit cars regardless of who built the. My opinion.

The car is a show stopper and I love it, BUT, I've done a lot of work that should have been completed by the builder. If you like to work on your car, you'll love it! If you want to drive the car keep the MG.

I'm sure I'll be finished eventually. Some folks on here have had their cars for years and have had to do all of these things. I'm doing them in a short time...I hope.

Good luck.

 

 

"Mississippi Jim" wrote:  "I'm sure I'll be finished eventually."

Hmmmmmmmm........................      You really believe that?   

Have you seen the thread on my replacement seats?   Or my gas heater?  Etc, etc???

I can't wait to get another brain-storm that'll have me working on some other thing for a month or two.  

It's always something with these cars (whether we can afford them or not).

Hey, BTW:  I hated all of the Hot Rod/VW/Speedster-style fuse blocks I looked at when building my car during seven years in the 1990's, and eventually grabbed a block I found in a Sterling Convertible in a junk yard.  Amazingly, for a British car it had a full Bosch electrical system - 6 fuseable links (I only use two) 6 relays and nine modern, tab-style fuses (across the bottom and bottom right).  The thing's been perfect for 20+ years and is attached to the firewall in the frunk, just ahead of the driver's dash.  There's a spiffy blue cover that snaps over the whole thing, too.

IMG_1357

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Well, I turned 68 way back in April, so THERE!

Actually, the idea was to use as much of the 1969 VW donor stuff as I could.  So, to give things like old switches a much longer life I run everything off of relays.   

Here is the reference to the panel:

Fuse Panel

There are few more satellite relays kicking around that I don't have to worry about, like for the oil cooler fan, the starter solenoid (mounted close to the starter) and the heater and its' fuel pump, but that's it and those don't need my attention, they just work.  That's what you get when you grow up in an era of "Relay Logic".  

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Last edited by Gordon Nichols
WOLFGANG posted:

Looking for a more modern alternative?  A classic Speedster body with dependable Mazda Miata water cooled under pinnings.  1.6-2L cc DOHC engine, 5-6 speed trans, 4 wheel disc brakes, AC/heat.  Okay - not loving the wart on the hood but it could be handled differently.  Builder has all the old CMC wide body molds and is located in nearby Lakeland, FL.

https://www.rcnmag.com/garage/...-based-356-speedster

http://www.buenodesigns.com/m356-speedster/

SRS_2319

He should of raised the whole car two inches instead

Tom - I was going to say the same.  The MGA, AH 3000, and even the Bugeye Sprite had squared off upright windowshields --- as though they expected just a wee bit of rain in UK.  The Speedster, however, was Max Hoffman's no-frills lightweight racer designed for the bludgeoning mid-50's Calif market. The Speedster side curtains seem to always have a 1" gap where they meet the windscreen. Even the top is referred to as an emergency use top.   

Ok really bad install - but you get idea-

Related image

When you're 700 miles from home in a thunderstorm it IS an emergency.

The English KNOW it's going to rain. Wonder why they built roadsters? I've had a 50 year affair with English cars. They may have been built to sell in the U.S. marker, but not to drive here. I had a 1949 Bentley with 60,000 miles. No place to go in to U.K. but I love their cars.

I've twisted off a crankshaft on an MGA and  two on Sprites. Not designed for American distances. Tr-2's & 3's had better engines but drove like a log truck.

MGA's were my favorite.

I have always loved British cars too but it's a love hate relationship. 20 miles from home in a Florida down pour IS an emergency also LOL Drove my first big 106 Healey in early 1960s from Chicago to Santa Monica on Route 66. Two lanes all the way and memories still alive today...then came Vietnam. But thinking a well sorted Speedster or 550 might be a better choice even with the reported leaking. Be nice to reach back and easily lift the top in place. MGA is almost impossible to do singlehanded particularly in downpour. Stowing it is even worse.

Any thoughts on best engine size for a Speedster? I think I'll stay away from Subaru. Driving would be combination of cruising and rallies if I can find them here but some old Florida backroads are great fun

Q:

Mag9 posted:

Any thoughts on best engine size for a Speedster? I think I'll stay away from Subaru. Driving would be combination of cruising and rallies if I can find them here but some old Florida backroads are great fun

A:

Stan Galat was apparently talking to himself when he posted at length on this very topic 9 hours ago and 12 posts up:

The platform of these cars are antique, and it costs a lot to do anything right. There are no shortage of parts vendors and "engine builders" who cut a lot of corners in an effort to offer more performance for less money. Almost all of us have been suckered into heading down the "value" road. It's a dead-end. There's no free lunch here-- good stuff costs what it costs. Nobody is getting rich, and you don't always get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get. There is a sweet spot for these cars, and going beyond that spot takes the cost/benefit equation deep into the red-zone pretty quickly. I've gone well past what is prudent, and one choice forces 10 others. Before long, the stakes get way to high.

  • I've had everything from the crappiest Serrano 1776 imaginable to a 200 hp 2332 in my cars. IMHO, the point of diminishing return is a 2110 (or thereabouts). A well-built 2110 on an AS41 case with good heads (CB Panchitos are the current favorites), a counterweighted crank, H-rods, and a W120-ish cam is as reliable as an analog flat-4 will ever be, and makes about 130-145 HP. Less than this puts a car pretty firmly in cruiser territory-- there isn't anything wrong with this, but it'll be fun,  rather than engaging. More than this makes the care and feeding "iffy", and starts overloading the oiling system, the cooling system, and every other part of the car.
Last edited by Stan Galat

This picture is my 1961 MGA. I actually had two of them and I split the rims and widened them by 4 inches. I raced it at Orange County International Raceway and they put me in the J-Gasser class. I always got a trophy because there was never anyone else in that class. It looked cool, but it was slower than molasses. The announcer used to always say "looks like the MGA is still having it's problems" but it was actually running as good as it could!

I Photoshopped the grill opening in this picture to show why I thought it looked similar to a Cobra.

I was actually searching eBay for MGAs when I saw a Vintage Super Widebody.  The next thing I knew I was sitting in Kirk's office ordering a Super Widebody Speedster.mga_cobra20181121_17031920181121_171138

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Last edited by Troy Sloan

Be nice to reach back and easily lift the top in place. MGA is almost impossible to do singlehanded particularly in downpour. Stowing it is even worse.

You're thinking of a Miata top!  Most speedster tops have the two simple bows and many snaps on back cowl have to be unsnapped to fold it properly (Not Beck or Convertible D scissors folding tops). Plus you have the plastic window to carefully fold.

Image result for speedster replica top frame

Last edited by WOLFGANG

 

Mag9 posted:

...Any thoughts on best engine size for a Speedster? I think I'll stay away from Subaru. Driving would be combination of cruising and rallies if I can find them here but some old Florida backroads are great fun...

 

 @Mag9 , do yourself a favor and go back and read that long post of Stan's about the various options for powering and setting up a Speedster.

If you're not familiar with these cars, a lot of it may sound too technical at first, but it's all there for a reason. If you don't follow some of it, take the time to unravel it or ask more questions here until you do. It's a lot to digest, but it will definitely save you some grief and disappointment in the long run - and probably some money, too.

You will find an amazing number of these cars on the used market with extremely low miles - some with under 1000 miles. This is mainly because many people are smitten by the looks and jump in without a clue about how impractical they are as daily drivers - especially in bad weather.

I'll say, yet again, that no sane person would plan on driving a Speedster in the rain on a regular basis. I haven't seen anyone mention the complete lack of ventilation, but that could sink you in hot, humid Florida as much as the flood of water on your head.

The folks on this forum are mainly the lunatic fringe who know from sad experience all the bad news, but who still have found ways to put up with the cars, modify them, and keep driving them.

We'd like to see you make a good choice and end up a happy camper, but there's a lot to learn in the beginning and a quick, uninformed decision can be a recipe for disaster.

 

Mag9 posted:

I have always loved British cars too but it's a love hate relationship. 20 miles from home in a Florida down pour IS an emergency also LOL Drove my first big 106 Healey in early 1960s from Chicago to Santa Monica on Route 66. Two lanes all the way and memories still alive today...then came Vietnam. But thinking a well sorted Speedster or 550 might be a better choice even with the reported leaking. Be nice to reach back and easily lift the top in place. MGA is almost impossible to do singlehanded particularly in downpour. Stowing it is even worse.

Any thoughts on best engine size for a Speedster? I think I'll stay away from Subaru. Driving would be combination of cruising and rallies if I can find them here but some old Florida backroads are great fun

That will never happen in a Speedster, at least not while the car is moving. You'll need to stop and use all available hands to put the top up.

Troy Sloan posted:

This picture is my 1961 MGA. I actually had two of them and I split the rims and widened them by 4 inches. I raced it at Orange County International Raceway and they put me in the J-Gasser class. I always got a trophy because there was never anyone else in that class. It looked cool, but it was slower than molasses. The announcer used to always say "looks like the MGA is still having it's problems" but it was actually running as good as it could!

I Photoshopped the grill opening in this picture to show why I thought it looked similar to a Cobra.

I was actually searching eBay for MGAs when I saw a Vintage Super Widebody.  The next thing I knew I was sitting in Kirk's office ordering a Super Widebody Speedster.mga_cobra20181121_17031920181121_171138

Nice to have those old pictures. Thanks for showing.

I’ve had two MG Midgets in my life, one with side curtains and one with roll ups.  At a fraction under six feet I am about two inches too tall to be comfortable in one, although I still love the little buggers.  Compared to a Midget the Speedster is a Cadillac.  It’s roomier, rides better, and generally more comfortable, but it is less rain proof for sure.

Leon Chupp, John Hallstrand, and I drove home from Carlisle 2008 through several hours of a biblical rain storm.  That’s when I decided to create side windows that actually worked.  While I achieved most of my goals (better visibility, better sealing, better ventilation), I was never able to completely eliminate leaks.  Heck, a little hardship gives us these great stories, right?

Last edited by Lane Anderson
WOLFGANG posted:

Looking for a more modern alternative?  A classic Speedster body with dependable Mazda Miata water cooled under pinnings.  1.6-2L cc DOHC engine, 5-6 speed trans, 4 wheel disc brakes, AC/heat.  Okay - not loving the wart on the hood but it could be handled differently.  Builder has all the old CMC wide body molds and is located in nearby Lakeland, FL.

https://www.rcnmag.com/garage/...-based-356-speedster

http://www.buenodesigns.com/m356-speedster/

SRS_2319

That whole mustache or hair lip thing has got to go........

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