replica handling

The simplest thing to start with is tire pressure. No more than 22-24 lbs. in front, 24-28 in back.

Shocks help a lot also.  If your car is lowered you'll want short shocks in the front and softer shocks in the rear if it's too stiff.  Mine rode like a buck board and I literally dreaded every bump and dip in the road.  My car originally had gas shocks that were way too stiff as well.  Changing these items surely made a the ride more enjoyable. Tire pressure, what Terry said, is very helpful as the front-ends are on the light side.  Definitely do as he says.

There are a several different steering and suspension setups depending on the make and manufacturer of the car. What maker is it?

-=theron

If you were expecting a soft ride you purchased the wrong vehicle. Replica or not it was designed as a race car and rides and drives as such. If you want it to be as authentic as possible doe the following: Replace the ball joints if worn, get Koni or similar gas shocks, add a sway bar in front and a camber compensator in the rear. Be sure you adjust your steering so that there is minimal play in the wheel, check your tire pressure. If you do all of these you will find it will handle better than the real deal and depending on the engine have a lot more HP.  Be sure to add 4 wheel discs as well so you can stop. I would also recommend a racing type seat belt. 

John:

 

All of this is great stuff, but not all of it addresses why your car might be very stiff in the front end.

 

Start by thoroughly greasing the front beam.  There are grease fittings on both ends of the beam tubes and those bearings often dry out and become quite stiff, making the ride hard and stiff.  It takes a LOT of grease to get them lubed - 10-12 pumps on a decent grease gun is normal.

 

Next, check the existing front shocks to see if they're functioning properly.  Push down on the bumper and see if the car springs back (this is a good check for the front beam, too) and settles in one motion, rather than settling in two or three cycles.  You can also check to see if the existing shocks have adequate travel by seeing how much piston rod is showing when at rest.  You should have at least 2"-3" of travel left when at rest.

 

Tire pressure is, of course, easiest to check - 18-22 pounds front is nice, over 22 pounds is stiff.  Rears at 22-24 pounds.  

 

If you wish to check more stuff on your car, use the new car checklist here: 

 

 https://www.speedsterowners.com...acceptance-checklist

John,

 

There are lots of aftermarket parts for suspension/shocks, etc. that can soften your ride.  Irregardless of what others say, you don't have a race car-designed replica.  You have a rebodied VW.  You can often identify the year of the pan by your registration, since some owners and states register the replica, based on the year of the donor pan. 

 

The VW Beetle was designed to be inexpensive to produce and maintain.  While Porsche and VW share some common heritage in ownership and design, with Ferdi Porsche Sr. designing the first Beetle, racing wasn't one of his considerations with the Beetle.  There is a wealth of info on this site from others with the same concerns, i.e., how to make the car ride and feel the way the current owner wants.  No worries, you'll get there with a little effort.  It's all doable. 

He could take out some of the torsion leaves and install beam adjusters (if they are not already there.) Doing that made my car ride way better and handle better too.

How many leaves do you recommend? Early or late beam? Thanks

Lowering the front suspension using an adjustable beam will stiffen the ride...a lot.  That's why many VW owners have gone to drop spindles, which do not affect the ride quality.  The problem with drop spindles is they only come in a 2.5" drop and can cause clearance problems.

 

Having some torsion leaves taken out will help.  Note that this is not an easy job for a novice.

 

If you have a gas shock switch it over to oil filled shocks.  If you want the best get a set of Konis (which are on sale right now).  With Konis you have multiple setting, from soft to hard. I have Konis and my front shocks are set a full soft, while my rears are set a 3/5 hard.

 

Check you tire pressure.  As Gordon and Terry mentioned,  anything over 24 in the front will give you a considerable harder ride.

 

 

As an alternative you can also search for lowered front end shocks.  These are specifically shorter, are oil shocks and will help quite a bit.  They also can be had for less than 100$ shipped. Lots easier than removing torsion bars unless you need to...
Frank

  Wow I did not expect such response.  I have been running my tires close to 30 so thats the first to correct.  How do you guys feel about extra weight on the front?  I read that even a standard VW has 300 more lbs than a fiberglass car, so I may also consider weight addition.  I dont know if any lorsion leaves were removed but I will contact the previous owner.  The front end is adjustable and has been set on a lower setting but not the lowest.   I will check the shocks but  I think they are fine. I will also lube the front end as that is within my mechanical range,  ha ha.  The steering is good but I may tighten it slightly.  My expectations for this car are realistic but anyone driving these cars pretends they're a race car driver regardless of having "the peoples car" running gear.  They do or they're a liar.   Thank you ALL for your opinions.  

Regardless of what opinions have been exposed here. A properly set up replica as I described before will absolutely handle as well or better than an original. I have owned (3) 356's and 4 911's. My last 911 was a 83 911SC Cab I bought new during a mid life crisis. That car of course had a lot more HP and it stuck to the road better in a hard corner. I do not drive that hard any longer and I love the way my Speedie handles for me. Apparently there are many different opinions on what a hard or soft ride is. This is and should be a ride similar to a race car. It should stick to the road and bounce hard when hitting a bump or hole. Otherwise it will break loose in a hard corner. If you are wanting to drive really hard, I would suggest you get a 911.

Your battery (30#) should be up in nose.  A full tank of gas is about 80# for 10 gallons and temp spare tire 20#.  Can go to larger fuel tank but might loose spare.  Add jack and 20# of spares and tools.  Add 80# bag of sand or gravel and see if you like difference.

You absolutely do not have to add weight to the front of your car.  My IM handles just fine without having to add any weight to the front end.

I've had my IM on the track-at mild speeds, mind you- and it's handling was fairly neutral.  If anything, it tended to understeer a bit, which is fine when cornering a car with a heavy rear end.

It doesn't handle anywhere near as well as my track Miata did (no surprise), but I was pleased with its performance, considering its crappy 185/65 tires.

   Lowered tires to 22lbs and that made a  big difference.  I was checking shocks and ashamed to say don't know if they're gas or ?  The brand is Nakata AP 25001 0720.  The battery is in front but as of now I have no spare.  The tank is small, 10 gallons I believe.  I think much of my worries are lack of experience with these cars.  It is killer on smooth roads as it has a CB performance 2005 with loads of torque and power. I think I will put some weight in the front as that is easy to reverse if I change my mind.  Thank you guys so much for the feedback   John

John, there are a number of improvements you can make to dial in your suspension, all of which can be done over time as you get acclimated to your car.

Brace beams, sway bars, lighter wheels, tires, rear truss bar, mid tranny mount, camber compensator(swing axle), rear sway bar(IRS) - all of these will greatly enhance performance. 

I've done them all and am very happy with the way my car performs, but you can go even farther by adding Mendeola suspension. Of course, it all depends on how deep your pockets are.

Stick around, do some research and, if you're ever in the neighborhood of Auburn, come by and take a spin in Penny.

And don't miss next year's west coast gathering in SLO!

I live just south of SLO  San Luis Obisbo   in Lompoc, tell me about the gathering

John, go to the "events" category and check out Jim's movie. It's on the first page about 3/4 of the way down.  Looked like a great time. Someday we'll get there.

Also, it is a myth that Speedsters are "300 lbs. lighter than the original VW Beetle from which they came".

 

The reality is that they BOTH weigh about 1800 lbs. curb weight.  We weighed a bunch of Speedsters at Carlisle a few years back and they all came in between 1800 and 2,000 lbs (mine being about the heaviest at 2K lbs.).  The weight of an original beetle was 1,800-1,850 lbs.

 

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/for...ewtopic.php?t=412845

 

You are more than welcome to put some weight in the front, but beyond the battery and maybe a spare tire, IMHO that's all you'll ever need.  That's all there was in a Beetle, too.

 

I ran my tires at 16/front and 18/rear for years.  That's great for the street, but a bit low for the track, where I run them up to 24/28.  Even your 22lbs. Is a tad on the hard side For the street.

 

BTW:  it's been shown by a number of different cars that when properly set up, some Speedsters can be formidable competition on the track, especially the IRS cars.  Mine will out-corner any Cobra out there.  (I just wish I had their power on the straights!!)

Nose weight ....... a simple effective way to test this is to double up 2 contractor trash bags then add...subtract rocks in the trunk area

until you get the best handling. Then weigh the bag of rocks on a bath scale. You can then affix a steel plate of that weight to the axle beam.....easy peasy and it works.

 

Yup.....an old 356 racing trick.

John - you just missed our annual gathering at SLO. Here's a video of that event. Keep an eye on the 'Events' thread for any posts of upcoming cruises near you.

 

When you start the video, click on the 'Gear' icon in lower right and adjust video quality to 720HD for  better viewing...

 

If you want it to out handle any Porsche, check out my stuff. Not stock but hey neither are our Speedsters....

 

www.MendeolaSuspension.com

 

   That is beautiful.  I would feel obligated to speed driving a car with this set up.

Yeah, and you would have to put a BIG mirror on the floor of your garage so you could gaze up upon that terrific suspension whenever you can't go out with it.

 

Mine looks just like that....

 

Sure it does......  

 

Well, at least mine has a similar anti-sway bar.  Oh!  And tires - Mine has tires, too!  And those little ribby-things in the middle of the pan - Got those, too!

how about this one under a beetle...

 

I added two 25# bags of lead shot to the front end.  One on each side of the battery.  It made a huge difference in cornering.  I now don't push the front end through every corner.

 

That would do it! In my much younger days I parkinglot slolammed (you guys south of the 49th call it autocross) my bug and kept the spare tire (as well as some other junk) in the front for the same reason.

Now that is interesting.  I am comfortable with the cornering but mine does not like the wind, nearly any wind more than 25 mph and highway speeds are very sketchy .. I think I will add a sand bag or two..  

How much caster is in the front end? What you describe is exactly what happens when there is not enough caster, and our donor cars (beetles) come with barely enough caster from the factory. Any lower than stock and there's even less; even shorter tires will affect the caster.

Well, I don't know but it has two spacers...something like 5-7 degrees ???...

 

I had the steering box adjusted to reduce the play and I have not driven it in the wind since, so that might have reduced the problem.

 

I don't work on cars, can't see and if I could I wouldn't know what I am looking at anyway.  

 

The car is serviced and tuned (engine and suspension) by Revolution Motorsports and they build and race go karts and formula cars so I hope they know what they are doing.  They added the extra caster, reduced the tire pressure (20 psi) and did the alignment ...ect...  

 

 

You may already have it covered, then. Let us know it drives. Al

Not that you can do anything about this, but one of the contributing factors to the cross wind sensitivity is the center of pressure for crosswinds is ahead of the center of gravity. On most vehicles, the center of pressure is behind the center of gravity and that will try to rotate the nose of the vehicle into the wind, counteracting some of the sideways push. In a speedster (or beetle), the CoP being ahead of the CoG wants to rotate the nose away from the crosswind, worsening its effects.

 

Another factor is due to lack of camber gain in bump on the front suspension. As the body/chassis leans from the wind, the tires must also lean over, gaining positive camber pointing away from the wind. The camber thrust from the leaning tires wants to turn the vehicle away from the wind.

 

Combining those with the natural twitchyness of a swing-axle rear when making corrections and other things already mentioned can make for an interesting drive in the wind in many cases.

Soapbox alert! (Or in my case, maybe it's "dopebox alert"). But I'm gonna haul-off and weigh in anyway.

 

en re Stephen's success with ballast:

 

Putting more weight on the front end is a great way to get better handling if your spring rate is wrong.

 

You'll also get 50 pounds of extra weight that does you no good. Hurts acceleration. Gas mileage. Eats up space that could better be used for a ham sandwich or a brick of cocaine.

 

My car used to push into corners too. Also it squealed.  The brakes locked up way too easy. My tires were old. I replaced them with new ones, let the air out of those (16 lbs in front for me), and was about halfway to an arguably safe ride.

 

The thing that put my car over the top was taking the front beam apart and removing the small leaves from the torsion pack. Six on each tube. That reduced my spring rate to something close to what the VW factory engineers intended.

 

As has been said: it is a dirty job. Those tubes all fulla grease. Getting the ball joints to separate requires tools. Yes, all that. 

 

But when I was done with that job, the car was suddenly predictable. It did not--and still does not--blow all over the road in the wind. 

 

And this is a TD. Slab sides. Big bulbous fenders the Brits rightfully call "wings." There is no way that car should NOT blow all over the road.

 

Skinny-ass 165/80s all around. Stock front sway bar in oldish rubber bushings. And the car feels like it can almost handle.

 

In fact, with the mighty 50-horse, 250k-mile PICT34-fed 1500cc engine my car beat two Miatas and a late model WRX in raw time on the Carlisle autoX in 2013.

 

All this to say: weight is over-rated.

 

The MFG says my car weighs less than 1600 pounds as-assembled. Again, remember, the TD replica is in no way as elegant from an engineering or style perspective as any 356 replica. All my weight is to the rear. It's prbably close to 70-30. The front end is even more too-light than you car.

 

And yet: A few fewer torsion leaves in the beam and it feels like it's balanced.

 

Think about it.

 

 

So, you carry a brick of cocaine in your trunk.  I'm telling.

Ed-

 

You can crawl up on your soapbox anytime. Great post.

Ed - You are going to need an antique suit case on the luggage rack with actuator to open the lid for more down force at speed.

 

 

       It is supposed to be a 1983 IM.  I bought it from back east and had it shipped to California. The guy was not the original owner.  Im not sure it actually is an IM.  Im real happy with what I got but just like most new speedsters owners you are trying to figure things out.   I think the longer I have it, I learn to accept the car instead of wanting to make it into something it can never be.   Its a shortened VW pan.  IRS with custom swing arms.  The front end is lowered with the adjustment, sway bar and front end is braced to the pan.