Replicas

@dlearl476 posted:

IIRC from the article in Kit Car that originally piqued my interest, back in 89 or something, I seem to remember it said Chuck lengthened the Spyder 2" and widened it 1" or vice versa, to make it easier to get in and out.

Beck Spyders are just about four inches longer than an original 550—146 inches against 142. Some of it is in the tub for leg room. Some is ahead of the front firewall/bulkhead to allow for the use of a dual circuit master cylinder, some is behind in order to keep the proportions looking right. The Beck wheelbase is 84.7 inches, comparted to the original car's 83 inches. I am not certain that the car is also wider, but I believe it is, as mine measured 61.5 inches and the original cars are supposed to be 61 even. The height is slightly lower than the originals, though that may be a product of the lower profile tires and smaller wheels on most replicas. 

@R Thorpe posted:

250K would'nt get you a Speedster or a Singer try 500K or about.

Idk anything about singers, but you can most definitely get a nice speedster for 250k.

https://bringatrailer.com/porsche/356-speedster/

Good luck

@R Thorpe posted:

Good luck

Look at the link I provided... The evidence is right there. And that’s just one source.

You are both correct. Following the link shows 2 speedsters that sold this year for $200K- $250K. It also shows 12 that did not, 3 of which were bid to over $250K, but did not make reserve.

I’m not familiar with how that site works but only 3 of them say sold at around 250 K . True bargains  I stand corrected. When I was looking several months ago the only ones I liked were in the 400 to 500 K range. These were cars I physically inspected. I’m in SoCal and prices are premium here.

@R Thorpe posted:

I’m not familiar with how that site works but only 3 of them say sold at around 250 K . True bargains  I stand corrected. When I was looking several months ago the only ones I liked were in the 400 to 500 K range. These were cars I physically inspected. I’m in SoCal and prices are premium here.

That’s a lot when you consider how many real speedsters are out there in good condition. Between 250k and 325k there are another 3 that sold in that range. Well below 500k.

The site is easy to use. The cars for sale all have a ton of photographs and videos, along with thousands of viewers critiquing them on the comment section, as well as providing good information. I’ve bought a vehicle on bring a trailer and also attempted to sell one. The buying experience was better than the selling. 🙂

@R Thorpe posted:

250K would'nt get you a Speedster or a Singer try 500K or about.

Doh!  That's what I meant to type.

In related news: my imaginary Internet friend's Dean Jeffries custom 356 Carrera went for $385K (?) at Gooding.  I was rather surprised, given that  run of the mill Speedsters are going for that and up.

@R Thorpe posted:

I’m not familiar with how that site works but only 3 of them say sold at around 250 K . True bargains  I stand corrected. When I was looking several months ago the only ones I liked were in the 400 to 500 K range. These were cars I physically inspected. I’m in SoCal and prices are premium here.

BaT is a "bargain" compared to the heavyweight auction houses. I can't remember a single Speedster hammering at less than $450K at Gooding, Southebys, or Bonham's In can't remember how long.

In related news, my buddy's beautiful Karmann Coupe languished for almost a year at $65K. Red headed step-child I know, but it was a beautiful example of a really rare 356, with a 12V update and a fresh 912 eng/trans in it. Ideal driver's car.

@edsnova posted:

Some is ahead of the front firewall/bulkhead to allow for the use of a dual circuit master cylinder, some is behind in order to keep the proportions looking right.

Interesting, Ed. Last year when I redid my pedals, Greg helped me figure out that I needed a Super Beetle M/C because there wasn't room between my front bulkhead and the beam to fit a normal dual circuit M/C. I wonder at what point they stretched them.

Here's R&T write-up on a Gullwing replica and why it isn't accurate rendition.  This would be a great driver with modern SLK donor features.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/c...ou-can-maybe-afford/

What's most impressive to me is the accuracy of the Gullwing body. Fiberglass replica bodies pop up occasionally, though Mercedes cracks down on the practice when possible. It's not clear from the listing whether this replica is fiberglass or steel, but whatever it's made out of, it's mighty convincing.

The link embedded is

https://www.hemmings.com/stori...00-sl-replica-bodies

Which says the body is a work of art protected by copyright protection.

Porsche doesn't seem to go after the Speedster body - just the PORSCHE emblems and their Stuttgart crest which is where they put pressure on replicas on eBay.

I believe that good well made replicas help the marque not hurt it.

@R Thorpe posted:

I believe that good well made replicas help the marque not hurt it.

We all agree, although the German and Italian manufacturers (and governments) tend to be of a different mind.

@Stan Galat posted:

We all agree, although the German and Italian manufacturers (and governments) tend to be of a different mind.

It's not just them. Let's not forget the famous Ford vs Porsche suit that turned the Continental into the Convertible D.

FWIW, the legend I heard was that Porsche never bothered to copyright the Speedster and Spyder names, so it stung even more when they were sued by Ford, and later by Peugeot over the "901" moniker. But that's why replica manufacturers can get away with calling their products Spyders and Speedsters, but not Porsche.

In related news, BMW sued the Owner's Club and the Motorcycle Owner's Club over the use of the Roubdel on club logos and publications. Talk about fostering goodwill with your customers.

@edsnova posted:

Beck Spyders are just about four inches longer than an original 550—146 inches against 142. Some of it is in the tub for leg room. Some is ahead of the front firewall/bulkhead to allow for the use of a dual circuit master cylinder, some is behind in order to keep the proportions looking right. The Beck wheelbase is 84.7 inches, comparted to the original car's 83 inches. I am not certain that the car is also wider, but I believe it is, as mine measured 61.5 inches and the original cars are supposed to be 61 even. The height is slightly lower than the originals, though that may be a product of the lower profile tires and smaller wheels on most replicas.

Spot on, Ed.

People are generally taller than the 50s now, humans are getting larger with the passage of time(since a low point of the 1600-1700s). The extra cockpit room is just to accommodate us and our longer legs.

@dlearl476 posted:

Interesting, Ed. Last year when I redid my pedals, Greg helped me figure out that I needed a Super Beetle M/C because there wasn't room between my front bulkhead and the beam to fit a normal dual circuit M/C. I wonder at what point they stretched them.

Pretty sure Chuck Beck stretched the first one he did and every one made subsequently was the same.

When I first measured, I went from the bulkhead to the middle of the beam and thought the MC would not fit in mine either but the regular Bug dual MC does, barely, because it aims a little below the center of the lower tube. I never heard that a SuperBeetle MC was shorter.

If it hits, a grinder is your friend. You don't need to remove much.

And every single Beck, Vintage, and Thunder Ranch ever made is stretched. The CMI is the only one that isn't, and I think that particular replica takes a single-action MC.

.

@dlearl476 posted:

...Let's not forget the famous Ford vs Porsche suit that turned the Continental into the Convertible D.

FWIW, the legend I heard was that Porsche never bothered to copyright the Speedster and Spyder names, so it stung even more when they were sued by Ford...

Well, actually, I think Porsche would have had a hard time convincing Ford that it had any rights to the 'Speedster' name...

.

Same deal with "Spyder" (or Spider):

@edsnova posted:

Pretty sure Chuck Beck stretched the first one he did and every one made subsequently was the same.

When I first measured, I went from the bulkhead to the middle of the beam and thought the MC would not fit in mine either but the regular Bug dual MC does, barely, because it aims a little below the center of the lower tube. I never heard that a SuperBeetle MC was shorter.

Top one is Super Beetle, bottom is normal bug. Note how there's an extra .75"-1" on the cockpit side of the flange. Try as I might I couldn't get the bug MC in there. Even if I had ground down the bug MC, it would have been hard to tighten the brake light switch as it would have been right against my beam.  It actually worked out well because besides the length, the ports on the SB MC are a little different, which helped a lot because I was going from the OEM pedal with horizontal bolt pattern to CNC pedal with a vertical pattern, and the ports ended up in a better orientation

PS: My guess is that when I relocated the pedals, the CNC pedal mount was .5"-.75" higher than where the original MC mounted.

That makes sense, @dlearl476. A half inch higher it would hit in my car too.

I assume you also cut away the fiberglass from the steel bulkhead? Cuz that's another quarter inch.

"Long Tall Danny" wrote:

"People are generally taller than the 50s now, humans are getting larger with the passage of time (since a low point of the 1600-1700s). The extra cockpit room is just to accommodate us and our longer legs."

Speak for yourself, dude.......

I'm still a "Man of 1730, living in the new millennium", buckle shoes and all.

Some of us have longer legs. Others seem to be moving backward along the evolutionary continuum.

I'm not concerned about height - it's stature that needs to be considered...

Well then......    I've got plenty of "Stats"!

Coffee and Cars finally started back up on Maui this morning. About 150 cars showed up. I got there early and went looking around. When I wandered back to the speedster, a slant nosed 930 was parking next to me. As the guy got out I told him that he would have to move his car because the area was reserved for fake Porsches. He laughed and introduced me to a bunch of other Porsche owners. No problems at all.

At the end, I got invited on a fast ride with the Ferrari and Porsche crowd or a regular ride with the Porsche and MG crowd to a nearby restaurant for a breakfast burrito. I chose the burrito and the guys even bought me breakfast. Best reception ever.