Ride height adjustment - front

Let's hope I've got this right-

The top bolt will go through the tube and lock the torsion leaves in place, so if you loosen the lock nut on the bottom bolt that goes through the welded on bracket and and turn it out (counter clockwise) you will be lowering the car.  Try a couple of turns, put the car back on the ground, roll it back and forth (or go for a little drive) and see where you're at.  It may take more than 1 try to get what you want.  I'm not sure how much this will change your alignment- so once your satisfied with the new ride height, it's probably a good idea to have it checked.

Hope this helps.  Al

PS- I'd love to know how many turns it took to get the drop you're after, and how much it changed the alignment.

And we're gonna need before and after pics...

If it turns out you can't lower it to your liking with that one screw (it may be turned out most of the way already), there are drop spindles available that will do it.

The other possibility is to remove some of the smaller torsion leaves from the beam. That's a messy job but you can lower the ride height by small increments and make the ride more compliant that way.

Thanks edsnova, I think my car already has dropped spindles. I backed the adjustment screw (an allen screw) out four turns, doesn't seem like it came down much at all. In taking my measurements at all four wheels and fenders, I discovered that the body does not appear to be level side to side in both the front and the back. Fender lip to the top of each wheel (not tire) on each side is different, thus the gap from fender lip to wheel is not the same left rear to right rear and left front to right front. Any thoughts?

@ALB posted:

Let's hope I've got this right-

The top bolt will go through the tube and lock the torsion leaves in place, so if you loosen the lock nut on the bottom bolt that goes through the welded on bracket and and turn it out (counter clockwise) you will be lowering the car.  Try a couple of turns, put the car back on the ground, roll it back and forth (or go for a little drive) and see where you're at.  It may take more than 1 try to get what you want.  I'm not sure how much this will change your alignment- so once your satisfied with the new ride height, it's probably a good idea to have it checked.

Hope this helps.  Al

PS- I'd love to know how many turns it took to get the drop you're after, and how much it changed the alignment.

And we're gonna need before and after pics...

Hi Al, Thanks for your response. I took four turns out of the allen screw, didn't seem to make any significant change. Then I started taking measurements again and discovered that the the body isn't level on the chassis. In other words, fender gap from fender lip to the wheel rim in both front and rear is not the same on each side. Passenger side gap is less than driver side... i.e. body sits lower on the passenger side vs the drivers side. Obviously this is a whole different issue. Any thoughts ?

Well, you've just figured out something that I have been talking about for MANY years. But it seems to fall on all DEAF ears around here.

Do ride height, corner balancing and alignment off of the suspension pickup points, NOT THE FENDER LIPS!

I'm sure the body is level on the chassis, It's just that the body is very FAR from symmetrical.

Measure to the floor from the bottom of the beam and the rear torsion tube, then get back to us. I have a feeling your measurements will be more equal from there.

Question: Do you like the ride quality? How do you drive your car?

If you like the ride and drive a sports car the way it should be driven, DON'T remove any torsion leaves. I'd add an adjuster to the other tube, then you can lower it more.

Another note: The lower the car is, the less caster it will have. You may need a couple shims and longer bolts for the beam on the bottom tube. Believe me, you want some caster in there. There have been MANY threads on this issue, do a search.

You'll get there. The madness is strong!

What @DannyP said- measuring off of the front beam and rear torsion beam is far more accurate, as a lot of Speedster bodies are not exactly correct.  And, as he mentioned, adding a 2nd beam adjuster is also a good idea, as then all the front end weight isn't on just 1 set of torsion leaves (which will make your Speedster ride rough).  At this point I think it would be better to also put a set of drop spindles on it- you'll get the ride height you're looking for while losing less caster and you'll be able to fine tune the height AND ride quality with the torsion adjusters, plus you won't have to worry about finding shorter shocks.

Thanks, Al. I don't measure off anywhere for ride height. I just use my race scales to make sure that the car is suspended evenly. That is the true measure of ride height and good handling.

Well, that and a proper alignment.

There's no excuse for the nut behind the wheel...

@DannyP- I realize that your priority isn't ride height per se, but for a lot of Speedster (and I'm sure some Spyder) owners, you and I know that what their car looks like sitting on the street is important.  Whether the front is the same height as the back or slightly lower and how low overall the car is/isn't (each of us having our own idea of how far we're willing to go and what's truly badass!) is a big part of the allure of these things.

You, my friend, have just taken it that 1 step further...

Adjusting one side of the back will also affect one side of the front.  In the back each torsion bar side is adjustable where in the front the adjustment is to both sides. 

Heart2hands did you remember to bounce and roll the car a block or two after turning the adjustment screw? You have to do that to see if it did anything.

Otherwise: what Danny said. And also: If you already have a drop spindle installed you almost certainly do not wish to lower the car further.

You may think you do, but if you want to drive it on public roads (and not just admire it parked on a flat surface), 2.5 inches lower than the stock ride height, plus or minus what's available with the adjuster, will more than suffice.*

DO measure the ride height from the bottom of the shocks. If you're really a little higher on the driver's side, that's a good thing. It'll account for the weight of you. At any rate, do not set your ride height lower than about 4.5 inches from the ground at rest. It CAN be done, but you'll be making trouble for yourself. These cars are enough trouble already running with 5 inches of ground clearance.

ALB is wrong about the adjuster for the lower beam, inasmuch as he says "all the weight" is on "one set of torsion leaves" when you don't have two adjusters. It is not. The stock grub screw holding the leaves in place in the lower beam makes those leaves part of your suspension (and the six smaller ones in there are the ones you could take out to make the car ride a bit lower—my Spyder was delivered missing all six in one of the tubes and it handles very nicely, albeit, probably not to Danny's taste**). ALB's reference is to a trick some dune buggy guys do which involves removing one grub screw, turning that torsion leave pack into a heavy duty sway bar. That is very unlikely to be the case on your car, and is not recommended.

If you do end up removing leaves, you'll want to compensate with the 5/8 or 3/4-inch  aftermarket sway bar, which is a whole other kettle of fish.

Finally and once again for emphasis: if you raise or lower the front ride height you will change the toe-in and the caster. Both are important. In my experience, lowering the car makes the toe-in increase, raising it makes it decrease. Lowering the front also make the caster decrease. If you decrease both toe-in and caster the high speed stability suffers very noticeably.

==

*Bagged cars excepted.

**Danny is an outlier, and proudly so.

Note - In addition to using a single beam adjuster, VS normally did not install a front anti-sway bar (or a rear one).  All later bugs had a ~3/8" front anti-sway bar and at least one year ('67-68) had a rear Z bar.

@edsnova posted:

DO measure the ride height from the bottom of the shocks. If you're really a little higher on the driver's side, that's a good thing. It'll account for the weight of you. At any rate, do not set your ride height lower than about 4.5 inches from the ground at rest. It CAN be done, but you'll be making trouble for yourself. These cars are enough trouble already running with 5 inches of ground clearance.

ALB is wrong about the adjuster for the lower beam, inasmuch as he says "all the weight" is on "one set of torsion leaves" when you don't have two adjusters. It is not. The stock grub screw holding the leaves in place in the lower beam makes those leaves part of your suspension (and the six smaller ones in there are the ones you could take out to make the car ride a bit lower—my Spyder was delivered missing all six in one of the tubes and it handles very nicely, albeit, probably not to Danny's taste**). ALB's reference is to a trick some dune buggy guys do which involves removing one grub screw, turning that torsion leave pack into a heavy duty sway bar. That is very unlikely to be the case on your car, and is not recommended.

If you do end up removing leaves, you'll want to compensate with the 5/8 or 3/4-inch  aftermarket sway bar, which is a whole other kettle of fish.

**Danny is an outlier, and proudly so.

Ed, thanks for the kudos. I am an outlier, a rebel, certainly an individual, and eccentric. Whatever words you choose today.

But as to the highlighted sentence above, umm, no. The bottom of the SHOCK has a fixed relationship to the wheel and tire, and will always be the same distance from the ground. But the height of the bottom of the lower torsion tube in front and the torsion housing in the rear WILL change with ride height.

Definitely a GREAT comment about rolling the car in-between adjustments though. That is an easily-forgotten tip for us older experienced guys.

And to Wolfgang's post, a front anti-sway bar is a must IMHO. They were stock on MANY years of Bugs, older link-pin beams through the ball-joint beam years. The original bars were thin, about 12 or 13mm. But certainly better than none.

In the aftermarket the only heavier bar available these days is 3/4" or 19mm.

5/8" bars are NLA, sadly. To me, they are the perfect compromise of good ride and flatter cornering for a street car. That's why I made my own.

With respect to alignment, ALWAYS set ride height, then camber and caster first. The last adjustment is toe-in, which is radically altered by the first three adjustments.

Ah. Oops. Brain fart.

Thanks to all who have provided sage advice on my ride height. Somewhat overwhelming ! I'm most likely gonna just leave it alone and enjoy the car for now ... at least! Thanks again !

@WOLFGANG posted:

Note - In addition to using a single beam adjuster, VS normally did not install a front anti-sway bar (or a rear one).  All later bugs had a ~3/8" front anti-sway bar and at least one year ('67-68) had a rear Z bar.

Word.....ask me how I know. I ended up adding the common aftermarket (can't recall if EMPI or Bugpack because that was about 18 years ago) 3/4" anti sway bar with the red urethane bushings (can't find anything else) and a camber compensator in the back.