Ride height, rear & front

I know that there has been some discussion on this point before, but I was hoping that I could get some opinions. I didn't adjust the rear end when I built my CMC kit many year ago, but based on Gordon Nichols' excellent article, I'm going to give it a try. My questions are: 1) what should the appropriate clearance be? the tops of my rear wheels are about 1.5 inches below the bottom of the wheel wells; 2) should I lower the front end as well, and if so, how much? The clearance from wheel tops to wheel wells is about 5 inches; I want to look cool (or as cool as a 54 year old guy can look), but I don't want to sacrifice too much ride comfort 3) If I put in lowered spindles (and if so, what size), what would be the best anti-roll bar to use? Will a stock one fit upside down, as I've seen discussed? Is there something better?
Thanks to all of you who so graciously share your expertise.

Charles,
I think your rear setup should only be lowered 1 spline tooth at a time. My spline has 44 teeth (or therabouts) which over an 18" trailing arm is ~2.5" of drop per tooth. Not exact science here; I only mentioned the method because 1 tooth is a lot.
The front is a different matter. I assume you have an adjustable front end, so it's much easier to adjust and check, again, 1 tooth at a time. 5" is a heck of a lot. I have 2-1/2" drop spindles and my front end is LOW, maybe too low! I'm going to have to check the springs in there...
Bottom line; try and see...
-Tim

If you decide to lower your rear, you should know what you are doing or you should hire someone. The inner and outer splines are different and you can easily make a mistake. You can easily drop it too if you like.

My rear tire is about 4" inside my fender well.

P-

Hey Charles!!!!

First of all, where are you? You might be able to get some experienced SOC help right from your area to help out.

I don't agree with Patrick, though. It is pretty easy to lower (or raise) your VW suspension, once you get past getting the spring plate off of the bottom stop (BIG pry-bars work well there), and the info I worked up should be more than enough to get you where you want to be. Heck! I used my own info and ended up right where I wanted it to be (but I'll admit that even I was surprised!!)

To get to your questions:

1) what should the appropriate clearance be?
Answer: Whatever looks cool to you. Mine used to be just about right in the front (for my liking) but the back end was up a couple of inches too high which looks good on a street rod, but not on a Speedster, hence my effort to lower it. Speedys seem to look good with the tops of the tires just a little up inside the wheel well (check out a lot of pictures in the photo section) so shoot for that look.

2) should I lower the front end as well, and if so, how much?
Answer: Yes, lower the front end by using adjusters, either Avis style (from Gene Berg) or the bolt-type from CB Performance or Kymko. I used Avis style, lowered so I have an inch or so of tire up inside the wheel well, did NOT opt for the lowered spindles, and have noticed no appreciable handling difference compared to my wife's Honda. If I were to do it again, I would probably use the bolt-style adjusters, since Avis style are harder to adjust. Make sure you do BOTH top and bottom torsion tubes in the front. BTW: the Speedy body is a LOT lighter than the original Beetle Sedan, so the spring rate (stiffness) is more like a sports car. Even with the engine weight back there, it won't move much over bumps and so forth, so you can get by with just a few inches between the top of the tire and the inside of the top of the wheel well. Don't sweat it!

"I want to look cool (or as cool as a 54 year old guy can look), but I don't want to sacrifice too much ride comfort"
Yeah, me too, born in April of 1950 and want a Cadillac ride - it won't be, but it's really not very harsh, either.....again, a lot like Kathy's Honda, only tighter in corners.

3) If I put in lowered spindles (and if so, what size), what would be the best anti-roll bar to use? Will a stock one fit upside down, as I've seen discussed? Is there something better?
Answer: This could get us a lot of discussion, believe me. I've seen Kirk at VS use the stock Beetle Sway Bar mounted upside down on a lowered front end (without lowered spindles) and it seems, to me, to handle just fine. I have a 3/4" "Sway-Away" bar from CB with stock spindles and, while it corners really flat, it might have added a bit of stiffness to the front end - maybe not so bad. I have not noticed any "bump steer" or stiffness of the steering with lowered, stock spindles (one-hand it in and out of parking spaces and such). I'll also be adding a "Sway-Away" rear roll bar this Winter, mostly because it was given to me as a gift. I'll try it out and see what I think, but when I get to installing it I'll be where the roads are mostly straight so assessing cornering performance might be tough. (Guess I'll have to drive over to I-95 and hit an off-ramp really fast and see what happens!)

Also, don't forget that I run 6" rims front with 205X16's and 7" rims back with 225X16's - a LOT of tire for this size car, and those big meats help cornering a LOT...like the rear end has never let go on a fast, hard-cornered clover-leaf.


Hope this helps, and let us know where you live - maybe some of us could come over, bring some micro-brews and help out.

Gordon

Gordon: Thanks so much for all the information, and the kind offer to help. Unfortunately, I'm outside of Rochester, NY, and if there are any SOC members around here, they're keeping a very low profile. I may have run into another problem before I even get going. I noticed that the top of the fan shroud rubs on the under side of the engine cover. If I lower the body any more, will I be making it impossible to close the engine cover? (I'd rather not punch any holes in it.) Any thoughts?
P.S. I was born in April of 1950, too. Separated at birth?

Charles:

The suspension mods drop the ENTIRE car, not just the body. Therefore the engine and rear cover will drop in harmony. If they rub now, they'll rub the same amount after you lower the car.

LOTS of the CMC's had that same problem of the rear cover hinges rubbing on the top of the fan housing. Put a big drop cloth over the engine and get out your DREMEL tool with a heavy-duty cut-off wheel attached and simply grind off 1/8" - 3/16" from the underside of the hinge where it's rubbing the fan housing. If you wish, you can go to 1/4" or more, depending on how much it's rubbing, without sacrificing the integrity of the hinge (it's pretty beefy and doesn't carry much weight). It's a try-it-for-fit kind of modification, so it may take a while before you're happy with the fit. Try to give it an 1/8" or so gap, but be aware that it probably is on the Drivers side and it rubs when the engine is rev'd under power, causing the entire engine to rotate slightly clockwise and bringing the left side of the fan housing closer to the hinge. Remove a bit of the left hinge and the problem is usually solved.

gn

P.S. 8>) Be careful pulling the drop cloth off to insure that all those pesky little aluminum flakes and dust go with the cloth and outside the engine compartment, then vacuum the inside of the engine compartment to catch any you left.

Charles,
I see you're in Rochester, and although I'm in South Carolina, we have a plant in ROC, directly off of the end of the airport's runway, on Brooks Avenue. I'll be up sometime in spring to install a new process line there and would love to see your car, if it's alright? I can e-mail you when the traveling begins, assuming our VP. doesn't change his mind,, again.
Anyway, I wanted to add something to my comments. I neglected to consider the 'differential' effects of having two different spline patterns at the ends of the torsion shaft. Since the outer spline has 44 teeth, and the inner spline has 40, you can advance (turn clock-wise) the shaft on the inner spline by one tooth, and retard (turn ccw) the spring plate on the outer spline. The net adjustment, or 'differential' is .011 deg. on the spring plate, which over 18" of difference from torsion to hub-center, equates to .25" of change, either lift or lower. I remembered this while considering my sons very thoughtful comment, "...it looks stupid!-it's leaning on one side..." Guess I have some more work to do.
I also had some issues with the CMC body; my dual carbs ran into the lid when it closed. I had to "customize" the air cleaner height. I guess you just chisel as you go!
-Tim

Tim: Fantastic! It'll be great to meet someone who speaks the same language (albeit you're obviously much more fluent than me). The timing should be great- Spring is a super time to be in Rochester(unlike South Carolina, we have something called winter, which involves tremendous amounts of snow). Also, I might not get a chance to tackle the height project until then (I want to spend the winter putting the adjusters on the front beams and doing some engine work). I look forward to hearing from you. Chuck

Tim:

Where do you live in SC? We'll be moving down there for the Winter, to Port Royal, just outside of Beaufort, and I'll be bringing the Speedster with me. Looking forward to seeing you down there.......

Gordon
"One of the Speedstah Guys from Rhode Island, soon moving to South Carolina"