Roll Ups for Speedsters?

It's been done, but it takes away from the lines of the car.

ALB. Can't have that, huh? Send link and I'll try to improve it.

For the correct geometry you'll need to have the windshield post installed as far rearward as possible on the fender, this allows for better side curtain to windshield frame alignment, Intermeccanica installs a permanent rubber piece for roll up windows on their speedster windshield frame that could be used for the side curtain seal, providing that the side curtain is positioned properly.                 I'm doing a lexan / Margard  side curtain that has a tapered flat rubber seal at the windshield will be on the Outlaw car I'll have at Carlisle.

 

Yes. Good concept. Will enjoy seeing it. I understand about rearward positioning. You can see it with the Cabriolet. So can you take it a step further and make a roll up in lieu of the side curtain? You are saying that IM Speedsters can now have roll ups and seal or they are just supplying a gasket that allows better forward sealing of side curtains? I'm advocating getting rid of side curtains if it can be done without destroying the Speedster's lines. The post bottom would need to reach the door but the top of the post area seems to be more of a challenge where the glass would meet the top. I am not sure the plane of the glass would lend itself to roll ups. Clear as mud?

FYI, IM speedsters and roadsters all have roll up windows unless you absolutely insist on having side windows that are removable but I am not aware of many of those ever being produced and at that they would have to really twist the builders arm I would think.   Why have removables when you can have REAL windows and with power windows as well.

The VW Beetle convertible has rear side windows that cranked up and just before fully up, they would crank slightly forward sealing against the door side glass, that same geometry is needs to be incorporated into replacing the side curtains in current speedsters. I had made cardboard templates a few years ago that seemed to work but I never got around to actually fabricating it.

4Banger - Welcome To The Madness known as replica Speedster ownership! 

I've gathered a few pics to better visualize the difference between the typical replica Speedster windshield position and the Intermeccanica windshield with roll-up windows. Hope these help.

Click on pictures to enlarge for better viewing.

1 ) Here is my Vintage Speedster showing the typical placement of the windshield posts. Note gap between windshield post and door.

2 ) Here is an Intermeccanica Speedster. Note how much closer the windshield post is to the door.

3 ) Here is the channeled weatherstrip attached to the windshield post. The window comes up and into the channel.

4 ) Here is an Intermeccanica Speedster with the top up and the window in the up position.

5 ) Here is an Intermeccanica Speedster with top down and window in up position.

Thanks gentlemen. Excellent conversation and illustrations.

On that gray IM Speedster, is the windshield height and top shape pretty much like a Speedster or is it taller and less slanted (more like a Cabriolet)? In other words, did they use a typical Speedster windshield and mount it more aft so as to fill that gap between windshield post and door?

Funny that all I ever saw with IM Speedsters was the curtain holes in doors. Was this the older versions when they were made in the US? If so, when did they change so I can avoid other years?

Interesting discussion about all of the issues around developing roll-up windows.  Many of them are the same issues I've had with developing full size plexiglass side curtains.  However, I am very close to the final stages of having a full size plexi side curtain.

If I do decide to produce them, I will probably only market them for Vintage and JPS cars, due to the inconsistency of windshield placement in CMC and FiberFab cars.

My personal feelings about roll-up windows for Speedsters is that there is a reason it hasn't happened in the last 60+ years and it will never happen.  Also, I don't believe there is a big enough market for them. 

My Speedster is meant for driving in sunshine. I use my top and side curtains in and out of storage each year and back and forth to Carlisle each year.

If the weather is bad, I'd rather drive something else.

I have no use for roll up windows or a stereo.
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4banger wrote:  "On that gray IM Speedster, is the windshield height and top shape pretty much like a Speedster or is it taller and less slanted (more like a Cabriolet)? In other words, did they use a typical Speedster windshield and mount it more aft so as to fill that gap between windshield post and door?"

It's a standard Speedster windshield, moved back a little, and then the door window is shaped at the front to fit the rubber gasket on the windshield post.  It's a clever modification, and it works.  I don't know what year this was started.

It makes for a pleasant driving car in rain or cold weather. 

Great idea, 4BANGER. Intermeccanica's been putting them in speedsters for 20 years or so.

There's very little really new under the sun.

Like Merklin said, "Move the windshield back". The question is why is IM the only ones doing it? If it retains the Speedster cool top shape and the shortened windshield but just shortens the fore/aft length of top a couple inches, why not? Definitely agree that a radio is more like white noise and totally unnecessary but curtains? Never again for me.

So it looks like my 356 replica search is down to 1.IM Speedster 2. Cabriolet and 3. Coupe. For the mild outlaw look I want and AC I need, likely the coupe is my personal answer. Wouldn't you know I'd pick the most expensive and hardest to get route. Sheesh.

The Zipper roadster (my avidar) just sold and dudes came from Florida to pick it up 1 hr ago. Still short $$$ on getting a Leach or Seduction.

"The question is why is IM the only ones doing it?"

I believe the answer is:

1.  Original Speedsters didn't have them and most people don't want them.
2.  They are not simple to engineer.
3.  They would add a significant cost to the buyer.

Troy, you've analyzed them windows maybe more than anyone. To your three talking points I say.

1. They ain't been caught in a bad enough rain.

2. They are not simple to engineer....for engineers. The rest of us it's easier.

3. Money is no object for us.

And historically Max Hoffman brought the Speedster here for those crazy sun loving Californians.  It was meant to be inexpensive (compared to other Porsche) and light weight.

And so it goes - "With its low, raked windshield—which easily could be removed for weekend racing, bucket seats, and a minimal, folding top, it was an instant hit."

And so it goes - "With its low, raked windshield—which easily could be removed for weekend racing, bucket seats, and a minimal, folding top, it was an instant hit."

Yes. A poor man's Porsche. A run about. A quick and nimble scooter. It is what it is and still does a fantastic job of it today. But when you hit a certain age, the hot feels hotter and the sun does some things to the bod. Old Ferdinand didn't have my old, ugly butt in mind. Ha.

I still say it'd be trick to move the windshield back, don't change the rest of the top lines, do roll ups, and add an AC. And if you want to fly topless, you still can. IM's got the ticket.

Old Ferninand did have your "old, ugly butt" in mind. Which is why we have the Convertible D. The Speedster was not the only Porsche in the line up. There were other models. The Convertible D is the comfortable, more luxurious Convertible which offered roll-up windows, a sealed top, radio, etc; And looks very very similar to a speedster. 

Troy and Wolfgang hit the nail on the head with their posts above. 

Agreed. But you missed this old fart's "poor man's Porsche" idea. The D cost more. Hey, we pay for what we get, huh? Ferdinand was Da Man. DarVWin.

4Banger posted:

Troy, you've analyzed them windows maybe more than anyone. To your three talking points I say.

1. They ain't been caught in a bad enough rain.

2. They are not simple to engineer....for engineers. The rest of us it's easier.

3. Money is no object for us.

Then you're just the right guy to perfect them.  Good luck! 

I hope you realize I am just joking. I think you are the one who will do what can reasonably be done and I think you have done a darn good job of it. Keep up the good work.

Check out the UK Chesil's solution.  To say it rains a wee bit in the UK is an understatement.  The aluminum and rubber "gap" filler is part of the door structure and is fixed to the door (kind of like the old vent wing windows).  It would be easy to adapt to another vendor's Speedster and add wind up windows.  It's rumored that the CMC used Chevy Chevette mechanism - but surely an electric hot rod kit would be easier (the CMC $995 kit "option" made the Speedster a D as it had a taller windshield and top w/frame and different door skin).

Chesil -

 

There was some good ideas on this thread a while back - I liked the vent window idea he had - 

https://www.speedsterowners.com...3#359332612924578573

 

SF-Speedster posted:

Old Ferninand did have your "old, ugly butt" in mind. Which is why we have the Convertible D. The Speedster was not the only Porsche in the line up. There were other models. The Convertible D is the comfortable, more luxurious Convertible which offered roll-up windows, a sealed top, radio, etc; And looks very very similar to a speedster. 

Troy and Wolfgang hit the nail on the head with their posts above. 

The "D" was the replacement for the Speedster in 1959-- the two models were not available for sale concurrently. The "D" was a one year only model, before the 356B came out, and the removable windshield convertible was renamed the "Roadster".

Porsche did offer a Cabriolet the entire time both the Speedster and the "D" (as well as the roadster) were in production.

Max Hoffmann convinced Herr Doktor to develop the Speedster for sale here, but he was never wild about it. It was a sales success by the metric of the time, but kind've as a "poor-man's Porsche".

Times change.

As to the need for side windows: I like mine a lot... but if I were doing it again, they wouldn't be a hill I'd die on.

I have winde up windows....Chesil.

I used to really want roll-ups.  But now that I've moved from Seattle to Vegas to finish my build, I may not even mount the top. Haha

Srblower .... no rolls up would be a real challenge in your country.

 

 

 

Too true !