Ruber Seal At Tran nose and Chasis

In my efforts to water proof this speedster chassis I have purchased the following rubber seal. I spent an hour wrestling with the damn thing after work, soaped it up and all. Trying to install it from the interior side. Does the Transmission have to come out in order to install this seal?
paul

We should really be able to go back and edit the title of these posts.

"Does the Transmission have to come out in order to install this seal? "

yes.

Thanks Gordon.

ridiculous.

paul

I'm not sure most Speedster have it, though. This may be one of those things you hold onto for a while until you have a list of things to do requiring engine/transaxle removal.

I'm going to try and use the bellows/seals that I bought for my 912. I cut out the section of the 912 chassis where the nose of the trans goes into the car and I'm going to fit in into the speedster chassis then I'll use the bellows. 911/912 have two seals, one outside and one inside.

OK, Rich, now for the long answer:

Every Pan-based Speedster should have one of those installed to keep water and dust out of the tunnel. With the tranny out, the forward lip part of the gasket fits just inside of the tunnel, then the tranny nose fits inside of the gasket (I think it goes in there about an inch). It's MUCH easier to install the gasket to the tunnel and then install the tranny.

If I remember right, the later ones were a slightly looser fit and have a semi-useless weep hole in the bottom (which usually clogged with crud).

If it's not used, water gets into the tunnel and rots it out from the inside out, and any excess water always finds it's way into your carpeting from the bottom up.

I actually installed one in a sedan once, without removing the tranny. You have to cut one side and open it up like a "C" and work and work to get it all seated in there and THEN try to glue the rubber back together with Superglue. Must have spent 3-4 hours screwing around with it. Then my older brother comes along and says something brilliant like: "Gee - ya coulda pulled the engine and transaxle out and put it back in under two hours, ya know."

Friggin know-it-all, anyway 8>(

gn

Gordon - Do you remember if my car has one of those? I sure don't remember seeing one.

I would like the seal there to keep this car from rotting, carpet getting wet, dirt/dust getting in while driving. It was bad enough to have the interior of my car flooded, water sloshing into the heater channels (unpainted steel = rust) as I took turns. But the aftermath was a heavily stained carpet. All of the dirt that was able to get into the car while driving worked its way up through the backing with the help of the water.

Why wouldn't fabricators put a seal like this in during the build? It is not a custom piece, does not need to be designed/fabricated, costs less than $10.00, is easy to get and has a real purpose. Easy peasy right?

Gordon, I was wondering about the orientation, thank you. I was pretty sure I had it figured out. You can see how the seal fits around the fins on the nose of the transmission. I have two older brothers/twins. They always had the best advice... always too late!

The engine leaks a good bit of oil, I imagine it will have to come out sooner or later. So Lane, Ill take your advice and just wait until then. The real bitch of it is for three weeks I have torn this car down to nothing in order to waterproof it... now something as simple as this seal will make it all for naught when caught in a good downpour.

ridiculous

It only fits on the nose of the trans one way.

I am not sure about Gordon's comment about the lip fitting inside of the tunnel. Mine is installed so that the lip just presses up against the opening at the back of the tunnel.

You might be able to fabricate some sort of temoprary seal out of flat rubber or something that you can put in more easily. I wouldn't expact that's a mojor source of interior moisture. In my Beck, there's no path from the tunnel into the car for water - at least at the rear. There is a removeable panel over the shift coupler. I should be able to see if there is a seal at the end of the transaxle, but I don't believe there is. I may need to consider some sort of seal there to prevent water from corroding things in the tunnel. Hmmm...

Just checked and I don't have one. The way my chassis is made, though, it doesn't look like an issue. If necessary, I could fabricate something.

Lane, my thoughts exactly before I read your post...brilliant!

Mike:

You've got the newer "compression" version (probably all they sell now, come to think of it). You install it on the nose cone and then just install the tranny. Once everything is together and bolted in the nose cone gasket compresses a bit and just stays in place. That version might lend itself to installetion with the tranny in place, if you can figure out how to get it in place, compressed AND then glue it back together. Not easy, but just thinking while I type.

It should be pretty easy to just put some adhesive packing (like big, sticky rope stuff) around the nosecone and apply pressure to make it conform to the shape AND stick to both components (pan and tranny) to make it waterproof. We used to have something like that for boats, but i can't remember the name. I'll poke around later and see if I can find some for ya.

gn

Gordon,
Purchased this from Eastwood to patch up some other areas. Is this what your talking about?

Gordon,

I may have the new type, although I have had it for about 20 years.

I like the idea of the lip. What I used for adhesive didn't work too well. I hope the trans pushing on it is enough.

Paul:

That's similar - the stuff I used to see in boats was like a foam-rubber rope (came on a roll) with Stickum imregnated in it.

OK, so I just called Nick at Jamestown Distributors and he tels me (It was good to hear a Rhode Island accent again) that they don't stock "Rubber Oakum" rope any more, as nobody was buying it. Everyone has gone to - and Nick recommends - this stuff as a caulk replacement for sticky Oakum:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2005&familyName=3M+4000+UV+Marine+Fast+Cure+Sealant+

He says just shoot it up in there, smear it around with a paint stirring stick, let it set up over night and it shouldn't leak a drop if you fill the area you suspect. Avoid getting much on you, as it's a pain to remove from your skin. It has a good amount of stretch, so it should give with the slight movement of the transmission nose, although it may transmit a slight bit of transmission noise to the frame, but the tranny is mounted with even stiffer rubber, so I don't see that as an issue.

West Marine can get pretty much any 3-M product, or you can order on-line from Jamestown Distributors in Rhode Island.

Not affiliated with J-D, other than dropping a LOT of money with them on my boats over the years.

gn

for what its worth...

Ummm... And why are the doors missing?

Regardless of whether or not you have the car back together, please join us at Carlisle. You'll enjoy it either way.

Can you get Dick Tracey on that wrist radio????

Damn! I looks like it'll actually fit through the hole from the inside!!

Once you get it through the hole, you can grasp it with pliers and rotate it around until the tabs on the nosecone fit into the slots in the rubber and Presto! You're done!

Of course, one advantage you have is that HUGE opening under the rear seat. Not a lot of us have that there (mine is totally closed).

gn

Lane, the doors have been at Thunder Ranch all month. They need reinforcing. I will make it to Carlisle On Saturday morning with the speedster, doors or no doors.

Gordon, Who is Dick Tracey? :)

In conclusion to the seal issue: I was not able to get it through the opening in the chassis. Just too tight. I cut through the seal with razor shears along the top side, wrapped it around the nose of the tranny and used a cable tie to hold it back together. Worked pretty good actually. I then used the 3M strip calk in the picture above around the edge of the seal at the chassis for good measure.

paul

I installed a new one on my car (it didn't have one as it came new from the VS shop) when I had to take the tranny out to replace the nosecone after an unfortunate "Gene Berg sump-busting incident" I had a couple of years ago. It will definitely help to weatherproof your car a little more but if I recall correctly it wasn't a prefect fit against the chassis.

I'll share and easy fix instead of using this costly seal.
You can use a left over piece of the pan gasket seal, wrap it around the tranny nose and stuff as much as you can into the chassis hole with a large blade screwdriver. The bead on the pan gasket holds it firmly in place. ~Alan

Believe it or not, my JPS actually had one installed when I picked it up.
The installation of the Berg 5 speed did not allow enough room to re-install the seal. So I shot some slow foam around the tiny gap.
I'm happy to say that with the addition of the wheel well rain guards and the silicone/slow foam shot in the rear body/pan gap, Penny was water-tight during the rainy portion of my drive down to Morro Bay.
Still leaks a little through the front bow, however...