SACO hydraulic clutch installation

Yeah, getting the pushrod out is trivial. It takes longer to wriggle under the car and back out than removing the pushrod. I can see why you needed a dogleg on yours, as the clutch pedal release arm is not perfectly in line with the MC. How did you do a dogleg? I am not a welder, and have only limited fabrication abilities.

As for further bleeding, I still have my neighbor's pressure bleeder, but I bled it several times yesterday, ad only saw air on the first time. I pumped enough fluid through it to completely fill the system at least once, so I am reluctant to believe that to be the problem.

Almost forgot - I should have mechanically (but not hydraulically) removed the slave and measured the travel, but I didn't. Oops. I'll try that a bit later.

I had to dogleg the push rod because my Metalcraft tunnel was soooo radically different from the VW tunnel, everything had to be offset. You should not be experiencing that with your installation. That was easy to fab as long as you have a gas torch to heat the bolt and a decent vice. As I mentioned, purchase a 5/16" (as I recall) grade 8 bolt about 6" long (long enough so that the thread and shank below the head/wrenching surface is at least 1/2" longer than your Saco m/c rod. So far, no real skill or special tools required. With your hacksaw, cut the bolt to the appropriate length (I would suggest 1/2" longer than the Saco rod...so you can shorten it later if need be) and then simply round it off (to nest in the m/c piston with no sharp edge) on a bench grinder like the Saco rod.

I'd hang onto the bleeder until you have replaced the rod.

"I'd hang onto the bleeder until you have replaced the rod." Roger that.

I have verified that the IRS-type bowden bracket would fit on my car if I cut off the existing one. Now that I know I can return it to cable operation if necessary, I will cut off the bracket and install the slave saver. I'll post a picture when that's done - probably next weekend.

After lookng at your "slave saver", there's no question that your binding problems will disappear. They will. With the modified m/c actuator rod and, of course, proper bleeding, I seriously doubt that you will ever return to the cable. Good luck.

In my one time hydraulic clutch experience on my Spyder the "slave saver" was absolutely necessary. Not fitting one cost me two or three R&R's of the engine, as well as a trashed pressure plate, and more hours of frustration than I could count....lengthen this, shorten that, break something else. The slave saver solved all my issues, YMMV.....the geometry is more critical than it might appear IME.

Slave saver installed and I really like how the setup looks there. Made a longer (by about 3/8") pushrod, but it still isn't long enough. I'll make another one tomorrow and try that. I'm still only getting about 5/8" travel at the throwout arm, so I have adjusted almost all of the freeplay out, leaving just under 1/8" at the slave. If the longer pushrod and another pressure bleeding don't solve it, I will be letting SACO know that I think the MC is faulty. Then I will assess my options for plan B.

Oh yeah, the pedal cluster I got from Barry Hudson has two grease fittings on it. While pumping in some grease today the grease gun got stuck on one of the fittings. When I finally yanked it free, the end of it went up behind the dash and bonked the combo gauge on the back. This knocked loose the center piece of plastic that has the holes for two of the warning lights. That piece has fallen to the bottom of the gauge, covering the two lights and the gas gauge. I pulled the unit out and found that there appears to be no way to remove the bezel to get to the gauge face without ruining it. Great. I guess I'll be calling Carey next week for another gauge. And a wiring diagram. !$#%^&*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lane....If time permits, send me the gauge and I'll take a shot at fixing it.....I've done several speedos with success......The Bezel can be pried off from the back. If done carefully, the damage done will face the dash board and wont be seen when installed......I'm just saying...

I'm not getting this....if they sell a kit for T1 trans., why would you have to fiddle with pushrod lengths at all. I'd be giving them a call!
As far as the gauge goes......DOHHHHHHHH!

~WB

It's the MC pushrod that's the issue, although I don't know why that would be. I am not getting full stroke on the MC, so the slave isn't moving enough.

As for the gauge, !#$%*&#%^$!!!!!!!!!!! Heck, I gotta put it back in to start the car if I get the clutch fixed today. Hope I get the wiring right.

Lane, the last time I took the face off of a gauge, it was a simple press-fit, like putting a plastic cover on a pie-tin. The thin, metal lip of the bezel is bent onto the crown of the gauge.
I used a dental pick to remove the lip, very gently and spending about an hour on it, then pressed it back in just as gently with the round end of a spoon.
That was one of those award-winning, crap-for-crap Vintage gauges, though.

Stand by folks, Lane is about to have an "odd" gauge problem . . . .

I think you are going to have to eather remake the lever that the master Cyl. connects to and make it longer with the connection hole higher up to get more travel. If you know how much travel the master has Use that as your reference.

Have someone first put it to the floor then put it up to the stop to see where your new hole should be while your measuring it's travel range and making a light mark for the hole untill your sure you have the right place to drill it. check it 3 0r 4 times re checking the travel.. I would also try to make sure the center point of travel has the lever 90 degrees to the push rod.

You may have to change the lever angle to get good travel.Weld up the hole on the inner shaft and reposition the lever and drill a new hole for the Brake petal pin..

If you have some good C clamps and vise grip pliers you should do fine makin a jig to keep it in place when you re drill If the angle is wrong??

Well folks, it feels like I have a clutch now. However, I can't really verify that without starting the car - which I am reluctant to do with all of the combo gauge wires loose. I emailed Carey hoping to get a wiring diagram, but it'll be next week. Rats! It's actually gonna be decent this weekend, if a bit cool (mid/upper 50s), and I would love a little cruise.

Lane I have the SE gaues wiring diagrams and have PM them to you . ALan

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!!!!

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!

Did a short test drive before dinner this evening and it is a whole different feel. Not only does the clutch pedal feel lighter, but it's a whole lot smoother, too. Some of that is due to the nicely rebuilt German pedal assembly I have now (thanks Barry!), but some is the hydraulic actuation. It also seems to shift more smoothly, which probably means that I was not getting it to stay in adjustment very long with the cable. John Wiley said that once I drove it with hydraulic I wouldn't want to go back, and he's absolutely right. I will do a little bit of fine tuning of the freeplay tomorrow, and button the access panel up. I'll post a couple more pictures of the completed installation.

Next project: Install new stayfast top.

Sounds great! What were the final tweaks that got it to work?

~WB

Congratulations Lane and welcome to the hydraulic clutch club. We'll talk about dues later. BTW, what's wrong with the old stayfast top?

Lane, life is better...for now. Did you increase the rod length another 1/8"?

Bill, I lengthened the MC pushrod to get a full stroke. Didn't even have to bleed it again.

More like 1" total, John (W). I could probably cut a little more off so that I would have some adjustment as it is set to it's shortest length right now.

John (H), the original top is not Stayfast, and over time it has begun to leak at the seams, and if it rains long and/or hard enough, through the fabric itself. I got a new top from Carey, which includes a larger rear window for better visibility.

Hey, if it works, why bother. I'd probably cut at least a 1/4" off to get some adjustment both ways...but then, I'm somewhat anal about that kinda thing. Blame it on an aircraft design background. Anyway, congrats, and enjoy.

I may very well make another, slight shorter pushrod. This time I was smart enough to buy two bolts at the hardware store. Buy the way, they're 5" bolts, and the one in there now I just cut the head off, with no shaft removal except for the thickness of the cutting wheel.

Today's project, assuming I'm not just driving it in the sunny weather, is to make the stand-offs for the access panel so that I can button the underside of the car up.

Now check your trasmisson oil level and you should be setting pretty ,,as that also helps it shift easyer

Only thing then left is to grease the ball under the shifter ,,If its been a while? I ussaly do that when I re grease the the foot petals, every spring on a daily driver . Your probaly not putting your's through that much use.

Me neather sence both my cars are now fully automatics Just pull the dip sticks to service.

I also put grease zurks on the back end of the trailing arms. That makes it easy to keep the rear wheel bearings in grease without pulling the hubs ( more play time,, less pay time)

Tranny oil will be part of a full lube service coming up before Carlisle. In the meantime, here are some more hydro clutch pics. This first the remote fluid reservoir on the opposite side of the gas tank from the brake reservoir. The second in the MC installed before I hooked it up. The two bolts whose ends are visible are the bolts holding the pedal cluster in. You can see that the clutch pedal hook is inverted.

These two show the slave cylinder wit the slave save installed, and the MC with everything hooked up.

Nice going Lane.....Looks good.... 8>)

That access port in the bottom of the tunnel looks like a really good idea.
Nice job, Lane!

Made a slightly shorter pushrod (4.75" vs 5") to get a bit more adjustment leeway. Also made sure the slave had 1/8" freeplay on the shaft, and then buttoned it up (temporary fix) underneath. Next weekend I will make the permanent access cover once I know I won't need back in for a while. Even then it will be removeable, just sealed up with silocon to keep moisture out.

Drove it quite a bit yesterday and I love the way it feels now. I am like a former smoker who preaches endlessly the advantages of quiting. ALL HAIL HYDRAULIC!

Lane, sounds like things are pleasant on the mount now. Good job. I honestly didn't think you were going to install the Saco. Figured I was probably going to remain the only Saco proponent. I'm glad it worked out for you.

Lane wrote: "I am like a former smoker who preaches endlessly the advantages of quiting"

My 90 year old mother was the same after she had her cataracts fixed...

Im happy for ya.. A job well done...

Hydraulic is the way, all Vintage Spyders come with them. The slave saver is pretty popular over at Spyderclub also. I didn't put one on mine, yet.

Lane,

I go through clutch cables for one reason or another. Ive thought about hydraulic. Enjoyed your post, thanks. Iv3ee heard it is a weird clutch to drive, no feeling. Maybe we could work something out at Carlisle so i could take it for a spin?

Paul

No problem Paul, you're welcome to try it out. Yeah, it's a bit lacking in feel, but I find that it is much smoother in general use than the cable. I kinda like it. When Carey does an install for a customer, he goes through the forward bulkhead with an MC mounted next to the brake MC. He still uses the stock pedal cluster, but ties the MC pushrod to the clutch pedal somehow. Not sure if it would feel any different, although the height of the mounting point of the pushrod would certainly be crucial to pedal effort.

"....heard it is a weird clutch to drive, no feeling."

It would be interesting to hear why it is a "weird" clutch to drive. Of course it has "feel". I seriously doubt that the Saco is any different from any other hydraulic clutch actuation system. In fact, I would find it difficult to imagine that you would find anyone who uses a hydraulic system that would ever want to return to a "cable" system. Sorta like going backwards from hydraulic brakes to the "mechanical's" of the early '30s, or even passing on power brakes today. Can you even buy a new car w/o power brakes.

I do believe they said the same thing when everyone went from a direct mechanical rod connection to the clutch (on normal Detroit iron) to a cable operated system, during the switch from rear wheel drive to front wheel drive back in the eighties.

Ditto the switch from direct mechnical rod to cables on the throttle acuater assemblies.

Ditto for power steering vs mechanical steering.

Ditto for continuous variable transmisssions that have built-in "step functions" that replicate a shifting transmission. WTF? I for one can still remember how happy I was when everyone finally got synchros on ALL the forward gears!

Today we have "drive by wire" everything. Old habits die hard.

Try an early model Mack with a Duplex or Triplex non syncro transmission that requires the driver to double clutch for everything and to pass an arm through the manual steering wheel to grab gears ....that's what I "was learned" on.
Now 43 years later, I got's me a six speed Allision automatic in my big truck and I'm like'n it way much better. ~Alan

Make that a Diamond REO doc.......

Two versions of Diamond Reo

Best tractor I ever drove, a 1966 Diamond Reo with a 250 Cummins and an RTO 915 Fuller Transmission. Not a screamer by today's standards, but great exhaust bark and really smooth transmission, with finesse, of course. Didn't even have to reach through the wheel to shift. Egad, what a drag that must have been.