SAS? Anyone?

This is a major reason that this site is so very important to newbies like myself.

We need to listen and ask even stupid questions to protect ourselves. I was lucky I purchased my Speedster from an SOC member that cared for it and a builder that accepts my almost monthly rookie questions and helps me ! (Kirk at VS). 

Craig 

In bronze age prehistory northern Europeans didn't have courts, lawyers, jails, etc. Their democratic recourse to stand aside and allow the victims to decide what the  appropriate punishment should be...That's why so many well preserved, hand bound, corpses are recovered from peat bogs with their throats slit.

 

Are there any peat bogs in Tennessee?

I'm not a lawyer and I never played one on t.v. either but you'd think all the victims could get together, or individually, and sue him for breach of contract and seek punitive damages instead of asking for their deposits back.

 

And neither am I a lawyer,

But I know that Lawing well knows from experience how to subvert and avoid the consequences of court decisions. All he has to do is to again declare bankruptcy...!!!  In fact I'm sure he's savvy enough to have nothing of value in his name that can be attached...so there's simply no possible monetary satisfaction available for his victims.

The man is either grossly criminal or a grossly incompetent businessman.  Either way, he should be shut down and jailed.  And the really confusing part of all of this is that he is (or at least was) capable of building a really nice car.  And you know, there is no end to the number of folks who will line up w/ money in hand at his door.  You remember Bernie Madhof, right?  Or maybe even P. T. Barnum -- didn't he have something to say about a fool and his money . . .

 

I for one would be happy to see Theron throw this guy out.  There is no good reason why we (the SOC) should have anything to do with supporting this operation.  The way I see it, running his ads is aiding and abetting a felony.  Seeing his ads here has suddenly become very offensive to me.

...I like the way that sounds! 

 

Everybody I have great news - I am building high quality speedster replicas now. And I'm doing it out of Les Munson's garage!

 

Get your orders in now!!! For a low down payment of just $15,000 you can secure your little piece of history. Don't wait do it now!

 

 

 

 

I am building a rocket ship and taking orders now for people to be the first to pluto.  $230,000.  Any takers?

Boy, what a great thread I started;-( 

Steve L is just in the wrong profession.  He would have been better suited as a used car salesmen.  Think about it, he talks a big game with that southern accent and at least the customers would have actually driven off the lot with a car.  The dealer owner would be happy and Mr. L would have made a ton of money without having to stick it to innocent hard working people with big dreams.

Love that sense of humor, Carl!  Steve L wouldn't have lived nearly as long without civilization protecting him.

 

That's the beauty of it; he takes your money, maybe he builds you a car and maybe (probably) he doesn't, and when enough people get pissed off and try to do something about it the company goes bankrupt and next month starts again, absolved of his sins, up and running with a new company and not owing anything to anybody who's already paid a huge chunk of a deposit. I don't think some of these people who've been waiting anywhere from 3 or 4 to 7 years realize that HE HAS NO INTENTION OF EVER BUILDING THEM CARS! And anyone today giving him money and expecting behavior that's anything different I won't comment on... 

 

And Marty- he's already found the perfect profession! People give him money and he doesn't have to do anything for it. This guy's in his mid or late 60's? If he plays his cards right, he never has to build another car, because it's true; there's a sucker born every minute.

 

PS- If one person contemplating one of Steve L's cars reads this and wakes up and smells the coffee, my work is done.

Fellows, I agree with many of the comments that have been made about SAS ! I have worked hard all of my life(38 years) and only wanted a special car to drive during my retirement years. My plan, for what it is worth, is to contact the Tennessee State Attorney General's office and see if I have any recourse. I want to figure out a way to shut him down so that at least it does not happen to someone else. Hopefully a lawyer in the state of Tennessee can tell me if I can put a lien against his business. This whole experience has been a nightmare!!! 

Hey, Jim Kelly!

I know your car was one of the last ones built by Steve Lawless and maybe you've already explained how you were able to get a finished car from him. If so, can you direct me to that thread? If not, maybe you can shed some light on a semi-successful transaction. Were you next up in the queue? Maybe you pushed the right buttons? I know of one particular builder who responds well if you pile on the accolades and proclaim him superior of all.

I'm just fascinated by this train wreck. Who needs the Kardashians, eh?

Hi Terry,

 

I have explained in the past how I finally got my car, but it will take someone with more time and computer skills than I have to direct you to past threads.  

 

You never know how you stand in the queue, because SAS never tells customers who actually is in the queue.  Proof of that is Roger's post, above, who never showed up in the list at all.  I bought a guy's spot who had 2 years in line, then spent 3.5 years myself before I got my car.  That 5.5 years was about average in 2013 for a guy to spend in the queue.  Unfortunately, SAS couldn't keep up the hectic pace of one car every 1.5 years, so the queue time is even longer now.

 

I had to threaten contacting the TN AG's Office to finally get my car.  I had paid for it, picked it up in Knoxville, TN, and gotten as far as Amarillo, TX, when the HG blew.  SAS said the repair would only take "a few days".  Four months later, after threatening to contact the TN AG, SAS put the car on a transport and sent it to me.  Since then, I have been "sorting", as they say.

 

There is a long list of things that were poorly designed or made with inferior parts.  I am gradually making necessary repairs so the car can live up to its potential, but, as many of us know, it takes time and money to upgrade what I received, which was not the car I was promised.  When I finally get it all sorted, I will post a review with the good, the bad, and the truly ugly, including a picture of the part referred to below.

 

I have one story in particular that, to me, epitomizes the manufacturing ethos of SAS.  One part of the stock down pipe contacted the frame.  The correct fix would have been to cut the down pipe, rotate it to miss the obstruction, then reweld the cut ends together.  Alternatively, a longer section would have been cut out of the pipe, and replaced with a piece with a slight bend to miss the obstruction.  Instead, SAS, in its wisdom and 33 years of experience, ground off the metal insulation, then pounded on the pipe itself with some kind of hammer to flatten it so that it cleared the frame.  Naturally, it narrowed the pipe at that spot, further restricting exhaust flow, the last thing you want in a turbo engine.  A pure bush Okie fix.  

 

I wish Roger the best of luck in prosecuting SAS.  Naturally, if/when SAS goes south, they will never admit fault, just look for a designated whipping boy to blame for their financial and legal woes.  Maybe Roger can take over my spot as the guy to blame.

Rusty, will you take a money order?

Looks like SAS, has a new business.  Owned by "Cumberland Gap Fiberglass Bodies"

Web site: http://www.speedster356a.com/ 

4000 site hits thus far. Or so the meter says

 

Take a look at the graphics, layout and marketing position, looks like SAS to me??

 

Art

Kind of weird that there is no "location" data, only an e-mail option.....   Does sound kind of like a "new business" (for some one).

Here's some old read SAW now SAS but it's the same old dance..

 

 

If you're considering Specialty Auto Works to do assembly/completion work for you, I urge you first and foremost to contact Mike Cromwell of St. Louis, Missouri at (314).432-1066. Mike will be delighted to share with you his experience as a customer of Mr. Lawing and Specialty Auto Works...

3/99 It has recently come to my attention that Specialty Auto Works' prospective customers are being led to believe that the above unhappy former customer (Mike Cromwell) was just an aberration, not to be taken seriously. One caller even advised us that Steve Lawing told him "Mike Cromwell bought him a wrecked Cobra for him to try to fix." Sighhhhhh. Bear in mind that Tennessee's Attorney General intervened in Mike's behalf and compelled SAW to reimburse Mr. Cromwell... and not for "... a wrecked Cobra," but for the Cobra that Steve Lawing/Specialty Auto Works built for him.

And since we have the names of other equally-unhappy SAW customers on my database, here's another example of the complaints we've received about SAW: OneSAW customer (of Fairfield, Connecticut) purchased his "Speedster C" through Mr. Lawing, after being advised that Lawing was a "preferred assembler" of the infamous Florida telepredator. To make a long story short, when Lawing shipped his car (months late), the brakes didn't work, the transmission wouldn't go into gear, the gelcoat finish was "wretched" and required a full refinishing & repainting; furthermore, the (SAW-installed) VW engine blew up shortly after delivery. In all, this customer had to spend over $5,000 to fix all those things that he had every reason to expect would be "right" when his car was delivered. He also complained that every time he sought Lawing's advice regarding how to best fix the sundry glitches his car displayed, the "solutions" Lawing gave him were invariably useless; furthermore, he never received any refund for all those additional expenditures.

Now, I’ve been warning the world about Steve Lawing and SAW for nearly 20 years. 

Alan:  was that from Kurt Scott??

Good catch, Art!  Yep, the new site for "super Speedster kits" not only has text, fonts, colors, etc. the same as the SAS site, but common photos as well.  Note the "paint shop" picture that actually looks like a crime scene photo.  Even though TN state law has mandated a paint booth since 2007, it looks like SAS is still painting cars in abandoned buildings.  That paint shot is used by SAS as being the body for the latest, still-not-delivered SAS replica, shown in the "customers' cars" section.

Thanks, Jim. Sorry to make you relive the experience but it looks like you were one of the "lucky" ones to receive your car. 

I hope you're able to sort out the gremlins and enjoy your car. Will you be moving back to CA in the future. I'd love to see you and that coupe at the SOC West Coast gathering one of these years.

As far as Mr. Lawless - one of these days he's going to piss off the wrong person and he won't be able to hide behind bancruptcy.

    Art,

   

    It's obvious that Steve knows all the legal loopholes to slip through unscathed and intact from any legal proceedings to recover unethical scammed monies.  

   

    I have the greatest empathy for two of our own, Roger and Jim, who have been victimized, but for Roger who's out 19K, there's simply no lawyer in the state of Tennessee that can accomplish anything (approaching justice and satisfaction) for Roger...except deposit his retainer check that surely gets chewed up in hourly lawyer fees for shuffling paper work!

    As for Jim Kelly...He's spent a fortune, and finally took delivery, of a flawed machine that's in need of gut wrenching tweaking and sorting.

 

    What I'm saying is that Steve Lawing is untouchable.

 

    One can only hope that the final chapter of SAS is the possibility of justifiable retribution catching Steve off guard...If not a peat bog, then perhaps a couple of short tempered Tennessee moon shiners.  

Yes Curt Scott~

 

Listen to the voice in this link from the new website; sounds oddly familiar? http://www.speedster356a.com/ASSEMBLY%20MANUAL.HTM

Click on the video link that says rear suspension and braking.

 Theron, what say you?

This guy has some serious kachone chones..have any of these depositors gone there face to face and confronted him?  After spending this much on a deposit you would think a nice weekend drive or flight would be in order to check on investment.

Again I say:  Yoo-hoo -- Theron -- why in God's name are we (you) supporting this guy with ads?  I am not at all happy that he is listed on this site.  GET  RID OF HIM!!

I have defended Steve a couple of times, having been well treated by him on a couple of visits, but I can no longer do so.  That voice is obviously his, and this tells me that he has spent a lot of time working on a new venture rather than filling orders that have been waiting for years.  Sad.

There may not be any peat bogs, but what about swampland? Someone needs to get creative...

Kelly, Lawing paid for the ad space. I mean, someone in the SAS queue paid for the ad space.

I couldn't agree more with everything being said here, but I'm getting a little nervous that someone is going to make a comment that crosses a legal line and end up regretting it.  The guy isn't worth one of you ending up in hot water, so be very cafeful about what you say.

I spoke with Steve Lawing this evening. Details next morning.

David, I've got some snake-oil to sell you too. Muffler bearings, anyone?

Anyway...I called him around 2 pm and got voice mail. He returned my call on the cell phone but I missed it so he called me at home and we had about a 1/2 hour conversation.

 

He is one smooth talker, as predicted and he did go on at length about the quality of his cars. I eased into the topic of him selling me a Cab or Coupe and he said it would take over a year to do so. That is a pretty open ended statement. He stated that he has no problem with his suppliers of frames and body components, it's the assembly process that takes so long.

 

The best method he said would be to buy a person's position in the queue. He thinks he knows several persons that may be interested in selling their position at cost. I didn't ask and Steve didn't say whether the exchange of funds would go thru him or direct to the existing customer. I then asked if I were to slide and extra 5 grand or so directly to him, could the timing of the build be adjusted in my favour and he said that couldn't happen. If I read into that a bit, it can't be good news for existing customers....I don't think he has anything to deliver.

 

Anyway...not much news here....I just wanted to hear it from the horse's mouth.

 

Most don't have the stomach for it, but I'd certainly pay him a visit. We've rattled cages in Detroit City and just outside Asheville with the help of local law enforcement and gained favourable results. I'm not recommending anything here, just saying what I know.

David:

 

I don’t comment on the forum much anymore as I have sold all of my specialty cars but do follow SOC mainly out of habit.  Like most folks on this thread, I don’t have a dog in this fight other than I have owned three well-made SAS cars.  My major hit on SAS over the many years of association has been slow delivery, which continues to persist.  If I may, let me try and understand your post.

 

1.  SL returned your call a couple of times.

2.  He spoke positively about the uniqueness and quality of his cars.

3.  The choke point in his process is assembly time and not parts supply.

4.  He recommended that you might consider the option of buying up in the queue as did Jim Kelly. [I believe the deal to buy up in the queue was between Jim and Bob.]

5.  You offered money to move you up in the queue and he refused.  [There is another name for this.]

6.  Not sure how this negatively affects other customers.

7.  If I were to pay SAS a visit, I assume I would see what I have always seen – two guys or more working 6 days a week to create cars and a bunch of unfinished cars sitting around the not-so-clean shop.

 

In the context of this thread, am I missing something?  I cannot answer why SAS takes so long to deliver a car but I have owned three.  I have no indication that SAS is going out of business or is ready to declare bankruptcy.  I also have no indication they are ready to deliver a bunch of cars quickly either.

Good advice Troy!

 

Thanks,  Art

Terry,  Just 'cause somebody wants to pay you money does not mean that you have to take it.  I guess I am going toward social consciousness here. Despite guru39's report that he has had THREE (!) of these cars (what was the total wait time for those three deliveries, I wonder), I can't get away from the notion that there is something like a pyramid going on here.  And it may not even be intentional in the sense that there is an overt scam going on, but just a guy who cannot get it all together, and just keeps getting deeper and deeper into untenable waters, despite his best efforts.  I cannot see this ending in any good way.  From all I see above, SAS misrepresents its business, and makes claims that are clearly not founded in fact.  Some have noted that recent builds are having some serious quality control issues.  The waits get longer and longer, more and more folks are getting put off (ripped off?). And there is a troubling history of legal action, well documented.  If I was running this site, I'd tell SAS to go kiss my grits, regardless of the money involved.  So, this is just one guy talkin' here.  And yes, I have no dog in this fight, and what do I really know personally?  Nothing at all -- it's all hearsay to me, so my $0.02 worth comes to naught.  Someone said train wreck above, and from a distance you know that such a thing is terrible, tragic, gruesome and sickening, but, as bad as it is,

you can't look away.

El Frazoo:

 

This is a pretty good analysis of the situation.  Not all performance in this world is planned or intended but does happen. The waiting times in all cases were lengthy but the product was excellent.  My $.02.

There is an old saw that comes to mind here, that maybe SAS could take to heart: If you look up one day and find yourself at the bottom of a deep hole, maybe the first thing you should do is put down the shovel.

The operative word here is EMBEZZLEMENT and it is clear a fellow can steal with few repercussions as long as he doesn't use a gun.    

 

It's an interesting aspect of our society which seems to separate white collar crime from others.   Perhaps because the people making the rules seems to be partial to their own types of sin.   

 

I've got a buddy in dentistry who was crippled by an employee through embezzlement and I doubt this young woman will see a day in jail.   Some poor bastard sticks up a store to feed his family and he'll be in jail for years but it would seem people can embezzle money plead bankruptcy and walk.    (not having any personal experience in any of this. )  

 

A fellow can also become extremely resourceful after honing his skills for years.  And I guess you do what works.  From what I am reading what this fellow Steve at SAS is and has been doing is working pretty well for him.

 

I am also convinced if you tell them long enough you begin to believe your own lies.   No excuses just the facts as I see them.  

 

One final word.  Seeking your own justice will not work and if you would  you'll face the folks who favor their type of criminal.  

 

Probably best to just let it go and spread the word.  

 

 

Lane:  I am familiar with the mid-engine VW kit website that has been on the Internet for over a year (maybe 14 months).  IMO, this development has nothing to do with the long wait-times at SAS and frankly there was not much development.  The YouTube videos are of the actual assembly of Davide’s car.  I think the forum is assuming too much.  Here is my take.

 

Since SAS offered the water-cooled Speedster, they have received requests to sell a Speedster kit.  Because of the difficulty of assembly with Subaru components/wiring, SAS did not offer kits.  This kit idea goes back to 2008.  A Germany company asked SAS to deliver rolling kits without the Subaru engine and asked if the chassis could be setup for air-cooled VW engines.  SL asked me what I thought and I said it couldn’t hurt but advised him to make sure there was no impact on current production which was suffering because of the increased complexity of his cars.  SL’s review indicated the VW Type3 engine and transmission would fit.  The only alteration was welding in a VW Type 1 motor mount cross beam.  There was no ‘development’.  Since no one could figure out how to gain acceptance of the German ‘DMV’, the project died.

 

In 2013, the SAS fiberglass subcontractor retired but the molds belong to SL.  Since East TN has fiberglass shops for boat building, SAS found another small contractor.  The normal SAS demand was inadequate to support their investment so SL agreed to add 10 bodies to overcome the obstacle.  We discussed possible outlets for the added bodies.  SL thought that a Speedster (only) kit that used the features of the water-cooled Speedsters and VW air-cooled engines was doable by enthusiasts and might solve some SAS delivery issues.  So, SAS reviewed the German study and created what you see at www.speedster356A.com .  I have never thought it to be a secret.

 

Here was the plan – all to take place outside of the SAS production facility.  The fiberglass subcontractor would hang and latch the doors/hood/deck lid, pre-prep the body fits and coat with two coats of primer.  The welding subcontractor would weld up the same frames.  The body and frame would be joined, mounted on a pallet, and readied for shipping/pickup.  SAS is not involved with packaging.

 

In late 2013, SL asked me about offering a kit that had the same components as the Subaru version.  Upon review, I was impressed and since it did not interfere with his water-cooled projects, I thought it offered a good alternative for the DIY crowd.  He later showed me videos of the chassis assembly, which are the instruction manual.  I quizzed him extensively about ‘no impact on water-cooled production’.

 

The only form of purchase would be through eBay and the postings would be made when a body and frame were joined and mounted to a pallet.  This would allow for immediate delivery.  The eBay buyer protection policy would protect the buyer through PayPal.  The final payment would be made when the kit was picked up or shipped. The website presents a video assembly manual and identifies the parts and sources.  Purchasers can buy directly from the same suppliers as SAS.

 

So IMO, SAS was not distracted by development of the VW Speedster nor will SL be involved with the preparation and packaging.  I thought it was a neat idea but I suppose others may view it differently.  I just wanted you to know the rest of the story.

Guru.

Any chance you're friends with Bernie Madoff too?