SAS Cabriolet

All of these cars regardless of newly manufactured or used need some sort of sorting. Once you start sorting the upgrade bug will take over and that will lead to more sorting and so on. If you want what should be a relatively trouble free experience I would suggest you buy form one of the folks on this site that specialize in reworking troubled cars. The usual experience is an uninformed buyer (me), pays top dollar for a "new" one only to find out they are full of problems. Regardless of warranties there is a cost associated with sorting the cars. The newly disappointed buyers then dump the cars on the secondary market and another sucker buys it or one of our "sorters" will acquire it and do the necessary work to make it a quality car. The experience is similar to boat ownership which is a hole in the water you pour money into. After 6 years of many dollars and much frustration my car is now well sorted. Of course I have done a lot of upgrades as well. I would estimate I am well over $40k into this "new" car. That is probably still $10k less than I would have invested had I not bought at the bottom of the recession. At that point a Beck or IM looks pretty attractive. For the moment I am happy, except my baby is now in winter storage. Probably going for a full respray in the Spring, opps there goes another few thousand. 

I bought a used SAS that was built in 2012.  There are a few cosmetic flaws.  Some runs in the paint on the passenger side A-pillar (I think that's what it is called), and the hub caps are rusting.  The AC doesn't work.

But, it has lots of convenient bells and whistles such as cruise control, ABS,  electric assisted top, glove box. It also has a Subaru suspension with adjustable coil-over shocks. And with the mid engine design, you get a small lockable trunk in the rear.... but no back seat.

I hope it works out for you.  $25K is a steal, unless it's a lemmon, then it would depend on what it will take to remediate.

Thanks again guys for all your thoughts and recommendations!!  I can deal with some parts needing to be replaced due to age or inactivity, a tune-up, ect... BUT if we start to get into cosmetic flaws, ie...fiberglass and paint problems along with any mechanical or suspension problems I would probably move on.  The story behind this is that I had bought my wife a 65 SC several years ago and long story short, she is SO left hand dominate she could not get used to the manual transmission.  I tried for a year or so and she did not feel comfortable driving it in the Houston traffic.  SO, just nosing around Fleabay at PORSCHE 356 and I saw this SAS, ie...AUTOmatic!!, AC, power windows and top AND she does not car if original or not.  Seemed like a perfect fit and the timing would be perfect!!  I have two other vintage cars that require some $$$ thrown at them so do not need another project!!!

Well, I may have mentioned this earlier, but most of the cars coming out of SAS were of very good quality.  All of them were Subaru based so the engine, transaxle and suspension will be all late model Subaru.  I have heard of few, if any, defects in the fiberglass or paint when new and I have always been impressed with the interiors.  My only gripe, over the years, has been that they always seem to sit kind-of high off the ground and in Lawing's choice of wheels.  Some choices were pretty good, in my estimation, but he often chose wheels that simply did not fit the look and heritage of the rest of the car.  But then, I neither spec'd, built or bought any of them, so whaddo I know?

Good luck with the check-out!

Coupe, what coupe? Did I miss a post about a coupe for sale?

No coupes here, going topless��. Gordon, I hope this car was done during one of his GOOD years!  Question here, since all Subie stuff used are these cars all wheel drive?

Nope, RWD only.

Thanks!

Yeah, he used the AWD transaxle but disabled the rear drive (remember, it's a front engine/transaxle, mounted in the middle of the car to give you, essentially, RWD).

Clever, actually.

I love mine! 

Couldn't find this thread earlier, found it!

Here are the images from the inspection today. Disappointed to say the least..

http://seductionmotorsports.bo...roller-turnkey-avoid

Link to photo gallery is easier than uploading them all here. 

Wrong link: here is the correct one:

http://seductionmotorsports.bo...-cabriolet-speedster

I want to thank you for an honest assessment. I drove 6 hours to inspect and almost bought a red sas last spring. I was also really disappointed once I got under it to have a look. The smell of 90 wt got me to peak under the engine, and I was shocked! I am sure the buyer appreciates your help. Good man.

Wow, Seduction motors .... Great Job.  Wow what a fiasco of a car.

But tell us what you REALLY think Daniel!  WOW!!! Nice work. 

Well, the seats look okay............

Run away screaming!

Great job Daniel, good and truthful report.

Wow - those pictures tell a scary story - Im not sure what was more horrifying.  My eyes were wide open and jaw dropped.  I assume that bracket (spray painted gray) under the pan was for the parking brake they tout as being the "correct parking brake location"  - That thing looks terribly "engineered"

Daniel.... You' re a stand up guy for stating what it is,  it's rolling parts requiring complete tear down and rebuild period. My concern is that there is a an ass for every seat hence, this car will end up with a new owner who, will drive this unsafe car not know what he or she got themselves into . ( Disclaimer: I am not, interested :~)

See previous comments..... buy a well sorted VS from one of the folks on this site. Be happy your wife will not drive it. 

Pretty comprehensive review. All I can say is WOW! That is either 320,000 miles or those were the hardest 3,200 miles a car has ever been driven. I was expecting a few things that would need to be done, but if this were a house it'd be a complete tear down and rebuild.

Everyone-Not only do I want to say how great Daniel/Seduction Motorsports has been in saving me from a huge disaster but also to say that It was probably one of the most frustrating days he has ever had!!!  I hope that he is at a local pub tilting a few---HE DESERVES IT!!  If anyone has not gone to his site to see the wonderful things he does PLEASE take a look!!  

One thing, for everyone's edification. 

The stalling problem and the wandering idle are classic symptoms of a faulty idle air control valve, a real common Subaru glitch. That's like an $80 part and it's not hard to get to. Most get clogged and can be cleaned.

If Daniel had plugged a scanner into the OBDII port in the car he'd probably have seen that code. P0505.

Leaky valve cover gaskets are also SOP on these, as are the cam end cover orings, which dry up and fail.

I will have no further comment except to wish Tom the best of luck finding a good Speedster/Cab with an automatic.

Tom,

I think the lesson here is that aside from divine grace-- a man doesn't always get what he pays for, but he always pays for what he gets. Always.

There's no free ride in this hobby. The dirty little secret is that there's nothing cheap about any of this. 15 years ago, it was possible to buy a decent-looking used CMC or California (not Vancouver) IM for $10K-ish.

It's not possible any more. But regardless: if you gave a "sorted" Vintage or JPS or CMC the kind of fine-toothed combing Daniel gave this car, you'd find a lot of the same things under the skin. Vintage and JPS use plywood for the firewall. When I discovered this (in my newly purchased "brand-new turn-key" JPS), I was horrified. When I looked at the welds under the car, I couldn't handle it. I sold it at a loss.

The bottom line is that if stuff like Daniel was pointing out is unacceptable, then no matter how "sorted" one of these cars is-- that plywood and those welds are still there. There's hundreds of guys who are OK with that. You don't strike me as one of them. I wasn't either.

That leaves you with a couple of options:

1) Get out your checkbook, draw a deep breath, and buy a new turn-key IM or Beck speedster. You'll get what you are after, but you'll pay for it.

2) Move on. I'm not saying this to be a bad guy-- I'm saying that if a $25K car with some significant issues is a nightmare, and you think that you're going to find something similarly priced that doesn't have some other significant issues... you're in the wrong hobby.

You're always going to be pay for what you get.

Good on ya, Daniel! Assuming the car is as it came from SAS and nobody has messed with it, and the mileage is correct, how would you feel if you waited YEARS and that is the end product you received, even without the rust?

At least no one who reads this thread is going to get had. 

I plugged in the Snap-on Versus Pro, no codes thrown for that P0505. Very familiar with that code. Wasn't the case. If any OBDII scanner were to snag that code, it would have definitely been the Versus Pro. 

3,200 miles, the gaskets and o-rings should still be good, not seeping out every possible escape route as possible. 

Would have mentioned that in my write up if the scanner threw some codes. 

Just to cut SAS a little slack (keep in mind I had a negative experience) , with all the little dings and fiberglass separation, windshield separation, the rigged hood latch, and emergency brake joke - it does look like this car has a  history beyond Knoxville. So - maybe it was driven by the teenage son who hit speed bumps with abandon or ...? Just saying there might be more to the story. The bottom line for Tom is, Daniel did a great job , our hero, and "run away, run away."

Or just order a new build, we're not cheap but also build Speedsters and Coupes, no Cabriolets however and our welds can be seen on Magnaflow and Vibrants websites as well as the Magnaflow SEMA booth next year,  and I guarantee no plywood is used, that never once even crossed my mind to use wood! lol. 

For the price point or even less that you're looking to be at, an used Vintage Speedster is your number one bet. IM's hold more resale value so you might have a harder time sourcing one at that price. Glad I could help Tom! Have a great night!

Astounding.  Makes my lowly, entry level,  pan based VS seem like a Rolls. 

Daniel--you are a rockstar for taking the time to check this car out for someone you have not even met and what a lesson for us all.  I couldn't believe the issues---each one is a "don't pass" on Gordon's pre purchase checklist. truly a horror story and a heart waiting to be broken. 

I am speechless. Thanks.

Saved Tom from a horror story. 

Stan-You are correct.  I have not been in this hobby and really did not know what to expect.  Trust me, I have gotten out the checkbook before BUT knew what I was looking at.  Obviously, I failed in this arena BUT thanks to this forum I am the smarter for it!  I was blinded by the power windows, AC, trouble free Subaru engine (I thought those were good for at least 150K miles) and auto tranny all in trying to find a neat 2nd car for the wife, ie...cannot/will not drive a manual!  I had bought her a 356 several years ago and she tried several times to no avail.  Wish I would of kept that car.  The original owner was Dickie Smothers of the Smothers Brothers.  You older guys know who I am talking about!

Daniel-Any reason not to produce a Roadster or Cabriolet with roll up windows?  I love the look of the Speedster but those insert windows look to be a pain.  Here in Houston, most of the time,  you cannot  have the top down.  That is where the roll up windows, AC, ect...blinded me.

Thank you, Daniel.  Much appreciated for your time and effort, on so many levels.

Now, I HAVE to see that Car that you built, now here in Massachusetts!

How flexible is your wife?

Mine wants to just get in and drive and the ideosyncracies that are present in this hobby would drive my wife ...lets just say ..CRAZY... lol, my gift to her is a car that is really turn key as her main driver. This, in reality, is a gift to me.  

Otherwise it would be like pulling teeth trying to make her enjoy essentially an old technology vehicle.  Just saying.   Ray

Hey Ray!  Yep, just get in and drive but it has to have some personality!  That's why she loves the look of the 356 and why I bit on the SAS!  I thought it was the old style with all the new technology!!!  Boy, was I wrong!!!  It does "kill me" to think of an automatic/sportomatic in one of these Porsche type cars.  

IM builds automatics in its roadsters you could check one out ..

check this link

https://www.flickr.com/photos/65579473@N08/albums/72157648085121041

Thanks Ray!!  The IM cars were the ones that first had me looking into the hobby!! BUT thought they were all manual trannies.  I will follow up on their site!  PS-I tried the link but it would not work for me.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/65579473@N08/sets/72157648085121041

copy and paste the whole line .....

Will do!!  

Hmm...

- A car for the wife

- Just jump in and drive

- Automatic

- No interest in putting up with all this 'old-school' stuff

- $25K turn-key, dead-nuts reliability, a warranty that really covers everything

- Bonus features: a top that goes up and down in 10 seconds, bone dry in the rain, real heat, real AC

I hate to admit it Tom, but I think you've just described this:

New Fiat 124 is based on the Miata frame, but it is not a chick car. If it has an auto tranny at least it is Italian, I think.