tom231 posted:I agree! Do any of you go on BAT?
i am sure you do! It is like here, you pick up some great information and expertise!!
I sell cars on BAT. Will be auctioning off a 550 Spyder for charity on BAT come the new year. Proceeds will be going to JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes).
Tom, I will get to your email in the morning, seems my email server is "updating, check back soon" lol.
tom231 posted:Oh well, that makes it easy!
BREAKING NEWS!!!! Seller of the "perfect condition" SAS 356 just emailed me calling me an "A-Hole" and that he spent $300 servicing the car for the sale!!! Sent him back a flaming email. The nerve of some people!! I told him to go and screw someone else!!
"Custom built in 2007 by Specialty Autoworks. Barely driven. Perfect condition."
The gall of some people. He described it as being in "perfect condition". Maybe he should look up the definition of "perfect condition". A windshield popping out, rust every where, crack, split, delaminated fiberglass, and parts coming off while driving etc is miles from "perfect condition". He should sell his bridge somewhere else.
Your wife will hate you unless you get her a bullet proof car from Beck or IM, I guarantee the first time she breaks down alone on the side of the road...
These cars (used) on the open market will need to be maintained. Do you have any wrenching skills?
Tom,
This will be the last bit of advice from me, and I'll shut up. You were REALLY close on this one-- way closer than you knew. I know it doesn't seem like it after that report, but this was probably priced close to the reality of what you can expect at this price-point. $25K is short money for a water-cooled 356 replica (too short, as it turned out).
You're making the same mistake most of us did when we stumbled onto this hobby-- comparing pricing to what is available with a non-replica automobile. If Mazda can sell an MX5 for $25K, then surely a small-businessman with some savvy can crank out replicas that don't need to meet safety or emissions standards for less, right?
It's the cruel joke for those of us who have been in this for a long time. You fall in love with the shape and the vibe, and think, "It's a glorified dune-buggy. How much could it cost anyhow?". The answer to that is, "a lot".
You want what the majority of people on this site, and in this hobby want-- a "jump in and drive to Texas" custom car for a price that won't make you lie to your neighbors.
IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. The sooner you can come to grips with this, the more you'll be able to make an intelligent decision.
There's a lot of ways to throw away $25K in this hobby. $25K well spent will buy a nice-ish "cruiser" speedster-- a VW powered, 4-speed, and nothing fancy. It'll likely have a very, very modest driveline. You'll be able to take it to the ice cream shop, but like most guys posting here-- you wouldn't begin to consider driving it 2000 miles in 4 days. If you think of it as the most stylish golf-cart you've ever seen, you'll be close. There will be things that make you scratch your head.
To get what you are after is at least $50K. Beck can build it, and so can Intermeccanica. Beck cars are swing-axle and don't have roll-up side windows. They have VW-style beams for the front suspension. A water-cooled IM has an IRS rear suspension and a 914 front suspension-- it rides like a more modern car. It also costs 1.5x as much as a Beck. Both builders will take the car to the level you are expecting.
The difference between what they are offering and what most people are expecting is cubic money. You need to throw out any value equation you have in mind regarding what something ought to cost. A car like this will cost 2 to 3 times what it would if it were mass-produced.
And that's just it. The builders enjoy no economy of scale. They are small businessmen taking enormous risks and trying to make a living. They aren't making a killing. Skilled craftsmen (the kind you want) don't work for chump-change, and building a nice car requires a lot of skill. Every car is custom, and they are building a tiny amount per year. This makes the car expensive, as compared to a Miata or TT. It also makes it special.
Vintage Speedsters and JPS hit a Miata-comparable price point by spending as little as possible on a lot of stuff that you are expecting to be finished to a more mass-produced level. I'm not knocking that, because they are filling a niche as well-- it's just not the niche you are looking for. Beck and IM (and some guys in the Spyder-world) finish to a much higher level. Daniel did you a solid on this car, and compared it to what he builds and what you expect.
For reference, Daniel's cars cost 3x as much as this one did.
Forewarned is forearmed.
One correction, Stan: You can get a nice Beck (Speedster) for $40k-ish if you aren't too crazy with options. Their Roadster starts in the $50s.
Lane Anderson posted:One correction, Stan: You can get a nice Beck (Speedster) for $40k-ish if you aren't too crazy with options. Their Roadster starts in the $50s.
If he wants to jump in and drive 2000 miles, then he wants a water-cooled car with some options. That'll top $50K.
tom231 posted:Tom-Those Becks are too cool!!
Bob-What should a newbie expect from a new build, let's say IM, ie...would it be like a new car, could I jump in and drive it back to Texas? Maybe, I was expecting too much?
Tom: Yes, a few fellows have done exactly that. Henry builds a good car; his quality control is perhaps the best of these companies (Beck is good also); he takes his time to build the car to ensure it is going to operate as a daily driver (there's no snow in Texas, is there ;-); and he road tests the car until he is satisfied that all is well.
Of course, these are hand built cars, and there is no guarantee, but with IM, at least there is a good degree of assurance that with a brand new one, you won't have to be crawling underneath it as soon as it gets home, to tighten some loose parts.
You pay for what you get, as with most things in life.
A lot depends on your own mechanical skills; your projected driving habits; your bank account, etc., as to which Speedster/Roadster you should buy
Keep in mind, that lots of guys have been - and are - happy with Speedsters from other makers.
It's a big replica world out there, and there is a car for every buyer. 
Editor's note: I guess I'm biased (as Tom is with Beck), being on my fourth Intermeccanica (three used, one new) and having been pleased with all of them.
Tom touched a nerve with us, this thread has really taken off - as usual. My last suggestion would be to get a clean used Beck Speedster and try it. Then in a year or so, you can always resell the Speedster and drop the big bucks for the IM with everything. Also this would give you a car while waiting on the IM build. Seems Carey has some nice used cars at his site . But that way , she / you, can give it a try first : getting in and out of it, visibility in traffic, space for groceries, interior room , defrost, wipers, and usefulness, etc. - before throwing down the big bucks. You would learn a lot during that year! Heck, you might decide to keep it as a fun weekend car and get something more comfortable for a daily.
But most important thing is to remember to enjoy yourself. This is a fun thing, not a necessary thing.
Stan-Thanks!! Very good thoughts. Yes, looks like it will take at least $50k to get what I am looking for!!
Carlos-That's a great idea, to check the water first before I jump head first. Will take a look at the Beck Cab!!
Bob: IM S6 posted:I guess I'm biased (as Tom is with Beck), being on my fourth Intermeccanica (three used, one new) and having been pleased with all of them.
Other than owning a Speedster recently made by VS, I've had no experience with other replica makers; however, a friend recently purchased a locally owned, Intermeccanca 356 Roadster "D" made in 2009.
It has a water-cooled engine, heated seats, power windows, heater and air, etc., etc. It's biggest selling point was it had only been driven less than 1100 miles and had always been kept in a heated garaged.
When we went to inspect the car we were amazed by how well constructed it was and except for needing two new shocks (because the seals on the originals were leaking) the car was flawless and looked like a fresh new build. In other words, the car was rock solid. Even the tan interior still smelled of fresh new leather.
A dealer had been trying to sell the car via eBay for its original owner but after being listed a few weeks there were no takers so we contacted the owner directly and my friend bought it for $48,000. Now some readers may think that price was a bit too high but considering what IM is now getting for one of their newer Roadsters with similar options I thought it was one hell of a great deal.
Beautiful looking car.
The only potential weak spot with that engine arrangement is the CV boots. Best to tell your friend to keep an eye on them. 
Cliff-Now, that I was I am talking about. Just may have to keep trying to get the wife driving a manual tranny. Seems like the autos are not the best thing to have on one of these. Please keep us up on how your friends IM makes it through the year!
I have to agree with Bob, I bought a used IM (4 years old) and then 5 years later, I built a new one in 2014-15. IM builds very good cars and from what I hear on this list Beck does as well but I have never seen any close up as I live north of the 49th parallel.
Hand built cars have their nuances and "Nothing is perfect" but you can get closer to a well sorted car by having a new one made to your needs or dreams.
While many have flown in and driven 1000 miles back home from their builder, you should be ready to spend at least a few days at the builder sorting things out to your liking and then get AAA as you never know what surprises can happen with any car even from a new build. It might something simple though as a loose clutch cable nut so be forwarned and prepared if your not mechanically inclined.
Just saying.
IaM-Ray posted:Essentially no kit car or custom built car comes into the country without it being 15 years old. You can get parts and assemble one in Canada which is possible but not without much aggravation.
But isn't it just the pan/VIN that has to be 15 years old?
Tom, you have got all the data you can properly use. I'll agree with it all, pretty much. Henry, Carey, Daniel or Kirk are the top builders, and I for one would not hesitate to drive one of Henry's cars right out of the shop and on to any thousands of miles to anywhere. Although I would have that AAA policy in effect too. Can't comment on the auto trans thing, as these are rare. I'd never have one myself in a Speedster, and don't have same in any of my cars, Speedster or otherwise, so don't pay much attention. Bottom line: so glad you did not get stung w/ a bad purchase here, and I hope you jump your budget and get the sort of quality that it sounds like you will need. You really do not want to send the Mrs. out and have her call you from the side of the road. Nothing good will come from that.
Are you saying he better have a well oiled back 
WNGD posted:IaM-Ray posted:Essentially no kit car or custom built car comes into the country without it being 15 years old. You can get parts and assemble one in Canada which is possible but not without much aggravation.
But isn't it just the pan/VIN that has to be 15 years old?
Yes, if you work it right, but it will have to be registered as a Volkswagen.
This is a tough one to call. Recently a senior staffer at a local DMV told me yes, I could Ontario register a Speedster replica that was currently registered in Quebec as a '73 VW with the correct chassis number on the title. I'm not sure if she is right and it's really hard to find the correct people to go to for the right answer.
I once asked a Canada Border official if you can import a replica from the US if the title said it was a '73 VW and he said absolutely not. A replica is a replica etc. blah blah ...
I don't agree with WNGD's assessment of the situation. "Working it right" is not a chance I'd like to take either at the border or the local DMV. I sure wish there was one authority that could put all this to rest.
WNGD...could you explain the process of working it right, please ? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding something.
David you have done this process I have not but I tried to find info from the Customs office and it was hard to get a straight answer and then they referred me to the Customs agent at the border... Essentially, you subject to the whims and interpretation of the agent and I have had some agents not very appreciative of me telling them anything of my prior call to head office. So I agree with you... unless I can guarantee what the agent will do I won't take the risk. My cousin brought a Cobra kit across but only in pieces.
I would imagine that a VW with Vin and ownership from Quebec could be done in Ontario so long as it has a full VIN and ID from VW i.e.: it was a fully registered beetle at one time. Probably better if you did not have to mention that it has a different body but then with the frame intact it should work.
David:
'Working it right' was my comment. I once brought an earlier IM (VW pan) across the border at Detroit. I had done all my research and had all the documents I needed.
The young lady at customs saw the Speedster, and refused to allow me to bring it across the border. She said, "That is not a Volkswagen". I protested, and showed her all the documents I had (printed off from the web -customs links, document of sale, VW registration in Michigan). I had even visited a customs office near to home to make sure everything I was doing was legal. She still refused. I kept pressing my case.
At that point, an older customs agent (man) intervened said 'I know what you are doing, and it's fine'. He examined the documents, signed whatever papers I needed, and I was on my way, with a speedster legally brought into Canada on a VW VIN.
The young lady left in exasperation, and some degree of anger. I think mainly because two males did what she said we could not do...
As long as the paper work says it is a VW, then that is all that matters. Now, they will insist that the replica/VW be 15 years old.
That's the best I can remember it, as that was quite a few years ago.
PS, I bought the car from a member of this site (who is no longer a member).
Bob: IM S6 posted:WNGD posted:IaM-Ray posted:Essentially no kit car or custom built car comes into the country without it being 15 years old. You can get parts and assemble one in Canada which is possible but not without much aggravation.
But isn't it just the pan/VIN that has to be 15 years old?
Yes, if you work it right, but it will have to be registered as a Volkswagen.
Maybe I'm a bit thick by trying to make sure I understand this. If the Car is registered as a Beck or VS for instance but sitting on a 15+ year old VW pan, it's a no go? Are those cars registered as a 2015 Beck or 2012 VS in the title?
If so, that means Canadians are limited to made in Canada IM or else imported kits cars that are registered as 2001 or earlier VW?
Hope this makes sense.
Thanks for that, Ray and Bob.
I'm still not convinced that you can bring a 15 year old replica into Canada if it is registered in the States as a VW. I think it may be somewhat at the whim of whoever is questioning you at the Canadian side of the border and their superiors and ultimately you will have to suffer and absorb what is their final determination at the time. It's a lousy system, quite inconsistent and I'm just not up to taking such a chance.
The Canuck border guards are famous for being inconsistent and I've crossed the border enough times to realize they are just not well trained or thorough enough. Recently, my Wife and I traveled to Northville, MI to pick up and airplane engine and three wooden props, one in a lightweight crate. The engine was strapped down in the open box of my pickup and the three props barely fit into the back seat area on an angle in full view. Upon arriving at the border crossing the usual questions were asked and I explained that we were in the US for only about 5 hours to pick up this airplane engine which was in full view in the truck bed. I had a receipt and showed it to him. He asked about tobacco and alcohol and I explained that we had about 8 beers in a cooler on the floor on the rear seat area bought in Canada the day before. He got out, walked around the truck looked things over and after returning to his post gave us some paperwork and instructed me where to park and go in and pay the taxes. Inside, about five agents sat idly by and one processed my payment. One other agent beside her asked what I was going to do with the airplane engine. I replied that I would put it in an airplane that I was building. He asked how you learn to do that and I just said...look it up on the internet. Most of them laughed, I paid and walked out. When I approached the truck an agent broke away from his chat with another pack of agents and approached me and checked my receipt, looked around the truck and sent me on my way. Here's the kicker. I had forgotten to declare the three props in full view in the back seat. At least three agents saw them and said nothing while I was declaring only an aircraft engine. A lacklustre effort on their part for sure. One day they can completely miss the boat and another day they can be picky to the nth degree but one thing you can count on is that they will always have the last word. Sorry for the length.
Total aside, but it works that way here as well.
In '05, I had my IM "coach" built (no engine, I supplied the transxle). I paid for Henry's customs agent to do everything I needed done in Washington state. I paid the duty (Henry took care of everything, I just wrote a check), and received the car in Illinois a week or so later.
Illinois is a SEMA state, so I can register and title the car as a 1958 Intermeccanica Speedster Replica, but the process required a "roadworthiness" inspection by an officer of a certain car-club (if I'm not mistaken, he was singled out by name).
Making the car roadworthy took a month or two (remember, I had to put in the engine, etc.), and I then had to coordinate the inspection with a guy who was frankly, not all that interested.
I got the inspection done, took all my paperwork to the Secretary of State's office, and applied for license and title. This is the point where sales tax is paid. I paid every penny-- for the car, the engine, and all the parts. I even paid a penalty because more than 30 days had passed since I purchased the car before I applied for license and title (the delay was caused by the transportation, getting the car ready, and getting it inspected-- all stuff I needed to do so I would be in compliance).
Anyhow, 6 months later I got a love-note from the State of Illinois telling me that they had documentation from customs that I had imported the car, and that I owed them sales tax again. My head split in half. I sent them an entire packet with copies of everything, along with a letter telling them I'd already paid the taxes, the fine for complying with their law, and the customs duty.
A month or so later they told me the situation had been resolved. How benevolent.
The props are part of the engine, Dave. Everyone knows that! 
I hear Trump is going to impose a 35% import tax on IMs ... I'm just saying.
Seems Europe wants proof that vehicle was actually built 25 or 30 years ago and not just on an old pan. Yup - very confusing.
Its back on ebay.... very detailed description..lol.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-P...mp;item=122276074347
Apparently, there is significant owner uncertainty over "New Condition" and "barely driven" only "3100 miles" and sold "AS IS". Caveat emptor!
Steve Lawing called me and wanted to know why I did not purchase the car, ie...he has had several calls about the car. I just told him it was just not up to my "Standard" of "perfect condition"! Now it is being sold...as Wolfgang stated above!!!
tom231 posted:Steve Lawing called me and wanted to know why I did not purchase the car, ie...he has had several calls about the car. I just told him it was just not up to my "Standard" of "perfect condition"! Now it is being sold...as Wolfgang stated above!!!
He seriously called you? Did you give him the link to the pictures? Maybe I should release all the videos I made while driving it that I didn't post...
I find it also strange that neither the owner or Steve has called me about the car yet.. current owner didn't even want a copy of the inspection report.
Actually you really helped out the buyer make an informed decision....
Maybe a good dictionary might help to define the term "Perfect Condition"
The new e-bay listing description translates to "You figure it out, I just want to sell this thing!"
The Guy should sell it back to SAS. Then SL can use some of the parts to finish one the pending 10 year builds. 
That is the best suggestion yet Marty..
This is a great example of what buying a used car is like. Since we have seen that great PPI and know what he car is really like, it is interesting to see how it is presented for sale. I have been a car buff for many decades and have had more sports cars than I can remember (8 Porsches) I can not tell you how many times I have drive or flown to inspect a car and said , "Where is the car you listed?" This deception and desire not to know about the car is really common among dishonest sellers. If they ever say, "I do not know about the car. I am not a mechanic. I just drive it." - well that is a huge warning sign. Sorry for the long post - this is just a sore topic for me. I hate being lied to, and it is all too common in the used car world. I keep a knurled up transmission filler plug right here in front of me at the computer, just to remind me to never ever buy a car without seeing it. Car cost $40k / flight to have a look at it. $350. Duh!
Marty Grzynkowicz posted:The Guy should sell it back to SAS. Then SL can use some of the parts to finish one the pending 10 year builds.
I'm surprised SL didn't just offer to buy it from the current owner then pull a classic Tom McB from Slunder Ranch, slap a new color on it, swap the gauges out, then deliver it as new to the next order in line.
Mazda dropped the Miata name (since many consider it a chick name?). It's now the MX-5 (or overseas the Roadster). The US version is FI VVT Dohc 2.0L 155hp and gets 38 mpg (some get 43 on trips). The MX-5 auto has paddle shifters and a Sport mode. Auto get better mpg (in regular mode) that 6 speed manual. I went with the 6 speed manual GT version (there is cheapest Sport and the Club with optional BBS, Brembo, Bilsteins --- manual comes with LSD.
The Fiata (Fiat version) is a 1.4L turbo engine with 160 hp. It has optional Recaro seats and different chassis tuning. Costs are about the same.
Motocarlo, I know how you feel..... It makes my blood boil Arrgh... I did that once myself sometimes you wonder how the guy still has legs when he lies like that and it can't be the first time he is caught lying and yet they feel totally justified to misrepresent the truth and you can point it out right in front of them.
My question sometimes is how can you be that dumb and still breathe? I have had it from used car private sales and even from used car dealers outright misrepresenting what is right in front of their nose. I had a dealer once say no accidents when the gap on one side of Honda van sliding door was like an inch big.... DUH... and he would not admit it had been hit... Needless to say we walked.
