SAS Position Available At Discount

Douglas, Whatever your intent was on this thread, I believe you have stated your case - twice. The beauty about the forum is that there are other opinions and I am not required to agree with your overall assessment. This is not to say that I disagree with all of your points. OTOH, if some of your ramblings were implemented, there would be no custom car industry on the planet. While SAS may have only delivered two 356A replicas in a year, there were several other cars delivered that you are not aware of. While none of us likes to wait a long time on anything, sometimes that is just the way it is.

I seem to recall advising you on another forum that your concept of delivery times was simply not going to happen and named all of the cars that were in the queue at SAS in front of yours. You never responded to me. I believe after you did the math and discovered that you would have to wait awhile that you notified the builder and he indicated that when he sold your position (the car components), he would refund your money. I believe that is exactly what he did, but perhaps not as quickly as you would have liked. If this is your definition of a nightmare, then so be it.

Many of us have waited in the SAS queue for a long time and received cars we are happy with. Where else can I go to purchase a mid-engine, Subaru powered 356A model? To my knowledge, SAS is the only place. BTW, of the six replica cars that I have had built in the last 12 years by four different assemblers, all provided me with very optimistic estimates. None were completed on time. But then, those are my

Charles: You have been an SAS and SL apologist in the past and I suspect you will remain so in the future. You are "pro" SAS and I am now "anti" SAS. Can you explain, in clear and simple terms, why SAS has habitually told potential buyers that delivery of their cars will be 9 to 12 months when they know full well that it will take 36 to 42 months? It automatically sets up a relationship between a buyer and a seller that is based on a lie. From there it leads to regret and disappointment for most buyers. Perhaps you don't mind if people knowingly lie to you. I,OTOH, do mind. My $17K was tied up for almost 2 years (without interest)and I went through a lengthy period when SAS would not even return phone calls or e-mails concerning the refund of my money. I was on the verge of starting a legal proceeding. This, to me at this point in my life, was a nightmare of sorts. I really don't need the grief or hassle. But, the principle beef I have is this: SAS consistently misrepresents the actual delivery to new customers because, if they didn't, they would have very few new customers. There are very few people who would willing to agree to wait 36 to 42 months for any car. If you do not agree with this opinion I feel that you are being less than honest with me, yourself and everyone else who reads this thread.

Hey I'm currently at 54 months and counting (kind of) I would have loved to have been driving the SAS for the last 12 months instead of wondering what's going on. Any buyers out there? :)

"The animal with the longest gestation period is not a mammal; it is the viviparous amphibian the Alpine black salamander, which can have a gestation period of up to 38 months at altitudes above 4,600 feet (1,402 meters) in the Swiss alps. It bears two fully metamorphosed young."

Not to be confused with SAS expectant parents!

But he is Black,Slick and Fast!

And that folks is a WRAP!
Goodnight and GodSPeedster!

Hey whatever happened to that guy who was supposed to kiss another fellows ass expected to have his SAW car delivered in time for Carslile (sp)?

Need be a little more specific as to what year? Bwaaaahahahaha

http://www.wate.com/global/story.asp?s=13045400

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water.....

S2 D2!

Note to self. Scratch SAS off my list of Cars I'd like to have built:-0

I feel damn lucky I got my $17K refund earlier this month! Like I've been saying for the past year: something stinks in Denmark (and Knoxville as well). I wonder what the new name for the company will be after the reorganization and/or restart as another business.

i just got an email from specialty sales in san fran saying they are the west coast reps for SAS. SS sells used collector cars. they do quite well and have a large inventory.

YIKES!

Way past fork time for this one.

Just recieved e mail he finished anouther car. Wonder what #you would be if you ordered one now?

Just to make sure this urban legend doesn't wander too far ( I may be too late), this is my car from SAS. It was shipped April 11th of 2010, 4 + months ago. I contracted in October 2007. I took over Steve O'Brien's position. Some of you may remember him from the last time this topic was drug through the coals during the coffee clutch of 2008.The wait was grindingly long but I hung in there,sorted through the piles of overblown BS, didn't hire an attorney and I have my car. And it is soooo much freakin' fun!!!
I'm just sayin!

I went there a few weeks ago to look at getting him to make a car for me. He took me for a ride in one. Had 3 more bodies painted and ready to go but I don't think he was in any hurry to get them going. I'm just so not okay with 17k up front and now I know why!!

Dan Walsh:

Nice car, and I'm glad you got it....

but.....

I would MUCH rather have the lot it's sitting on in that picture!!!!!

WOW!

Does anybody have any idea where he gets his bodies from? It looks very similar to a CMC.

Nope. His original car bodies (mine included) were from Mexico, but he now has his own molds for all permutations of his cars, Speedster, Cabriolet, Coupe in traditional or wide body style. The molding is done locally. He continues to industriously produce his cars in a very small shop. Dan, Nolan and myself, among others, are all happy campers.

You know....that's what gets to me.

Lawing builds a VERY good car. Attention to detail is easily as good as anyone out there, and better than a lot of cars coming out of Detriot. Those folks who've received their cars (albeit, after a long wait) are very happy with them. Any problems found after delivery (and I understand that there are far fewer problems than from a couple of West Coast builders) are promptly acknowleged and corrected and no BS from SAS. I've also not heard of any safety issues on delivery - that's a big plus in my book.

On top of that, these cars HANDLE! I drove Hoss' car on some twisties and while I didn't begin to wring it out, what I found was a great handling car with creature comforts far beyond what most of us experience with our "Speedsters". THAT, my friends, takes some damn good engineering.

On the other hand, many people have tried to help SAS with positive advice on getting out of the prototype/pre-production phase. He needs to stabilize most of the 356 design (which has been a constantly moving target as long as I've been watching), get on with small-shop production by hiring some competent mechanics (I know how hard this can be in his area and especially in this economy) and get going on his backlog. Remember that he's still building custom Hot Rods, too, so getting cars out the door that take 2-4 months to build with only 3-4 people building them makes things very slow. He doesn't seem to want to follow much of that advice and so he keeps getting in deeper and deeper as his backlog has grown longer and longer.

Believe me, when I worked for EMC Engineering, I mentored over 50 small businesses just like SAS to provide stuff for our products. Some of them listened and grew and made tons of money (sometimes too fast, but that's another story) and some of them ignored us and floundered. The ones that were successful were run as professional operations: clean working areas, few build materials stored on the shop floor, good designs and a good scheduling system through their shop with strict material control. I was at SAS a few years ago and none of that existed there. If he were to have bid on some of my jobs at EMC he would have failed the first site visit and been dropped right then.

I liked Steve Lawing when I met him. I would like to see him be successful. But after all this time to get better, I just don't think it's ever gonna happen...

gn

Gordon: I agree with you 100%. Couple those problems with their deceptive tactics concerning actual delivery of their product and you have a real mess. I owned my own manufacturing company and was a supplier to the automotive and aircraft industries for 44 years. If I operated anything like SAS I would have been out of business before my second year. He is a very talented mechanic/engineer. He is also a lousy businessman and, unfortunately, has problems being totally up-front with new customers (based on my personal experience).

There are some other companies who have some similar issues. However, at the other end of the continuum Special Editions and Intermechanica are two companies who always seem to deliver what they promise on time and stand behind their products and go above and beyond for support of our cars, no matter who made them. I have owned two IM's and have dealt with Special Editions for several years and have nothing but good to say about both. There a some others that I have had less success with

I was talking to Teresa a couple days ago about businesses trying to take "the next step," as it were. Sometimes, consumers expect businesses in like enterprises to do better things than they're capable of, just because they do the same thing topically.
As relates here, she said (in an effort to clarify her point to me), "You built a good car. It's not an Intermeccanica, but you built the best car you knew how. Of course it's not better than it is; it just IS what it is.
"You built to the level you could acheive."
I believe building a business model also depends on the architect.

Can somebody please explain what Cory just said......

They built the best biz model they could build...usually technical people ( technicians,artists) are not the best biz people (arguably)

The basic problem is that he has never been able to deliver what he promises for the build time.He is able to exist because there are enough enthusiasts who have been on this sight(perhaps)who have very positive things to say about him. Also his concept of offering the classic look with modern luxuries is very appealing. If he actually said his build time takes 2 1/2 years to build a car he probably would not have any customers.I'm also guessing that perhaps he stipulates a non refundable deposit. So in spite of clients getting extreemly aggravated they appear to end up getting a good product.Quite a uniquesituation to be in.

Vince:

I'm working it out on my "Captain Midnight Decoder Ring".

As soon as I get an answer, I'll let you know.....

The Engineering Manager side of me, however, says that Teresa is absolutely right.

Vince, you're killing me. ;)

Cory--that is in Vince's job description---gotta love him.

But the man serves a helluva scotch! Thankee, Vince.

Price point may be something of an issue here. I don't know Steve and reading this entire thread again the thing I see is that those that have a car are VERY happy.

That is a VERY good thing.

I think the price for the car is likely undervalued for what you get. Setve wants orders. To get them he has to be under the price point for other builders to get the orders. Ok so now in his business he is way over extended (like a Ponsi scheme) and will likely NOT recover without going bankrupt again. Did he intend to be upside down? Likely not. The sad thing is he has a good product. He needs to get people to pay for it.

Someone mentioned with West Coast Builders that some of the cars are a bit problematic. Those would be in the South part of the West Coast not the North part of the West Coast.

Quality and inovation costs money. We are all big boys here. When I first spoke with Henry about a price I had HUGE sticker shock. The more I thought about it I understood I was getting one hell of a bargan for what I was getting for my money. Remember I had just dropped 5 1/2 years and a lot of money restoring a real 356 Porsche. I knew quality took time and money.

Pay the builder what he needs to remain in business. Likely if Steve charged a correct price for what the owners got they would have paid a lot more. Maybe closer to IM prices or above.

I know we all have different budgets. It took me 30 years of buy, sell, scrimp and save to have my dream car built by Henry. I could have done it myself but at 56 it's time to just enjoy it!

Good luck Steve and everybody with a "skin" in the game. I hope all of you get out of your mess.

Just read the thread. Thanks a bunch guys and gals for screwing up my good thing. Vada believed me when I dropped her off in downtown Vancouver to go shopping while I said I had to get some minor repairs done at the IM shop. Now she will get wind of the 'topless supermodel' shenanigans from some well meaning gossip and my fun will be over!

I do like that magic dust Henry sprinkles on the cars though.

Tomm

I'd say if this guy at SAS charged the appropriate price for his cars then he'd likely take a little of IM's money. If he's charging so little then just close down and reopen under a different name and make the same high quality car, only this time charge more.
If he charged more he could hire more quality people, if he had more quality people he could produce more cars, or at least produce them faster. If he could produce more cars for a higher price he'd make more money etc...
I've got a couple places that are doing OK, I could just sit back and relax but eventually that catches up with you. My first place will be hitting the 9 year mark in March 2011, I've already started planning a major renovation and complete conceptual change for next summer. When you run a businees on a string it doesn't take much to run it into the ground, sooner or later it'll catch up. I'm sure you all know what I'm saying. It'd be a shame to lose a good builder on this side of the country. I guess time will tell.

This is the type of discourse that can have a positive result. These are honest opinions by folks who may not have an interest in SAS, but do have an interest in cars in general, and replicas in particular. Many of you have abundant business experience, and your comments are valid.

I am old enough to have been involved in the work force for over 50 years, either full or part time as a school kid. During that time, I have had some pretty good successes, and have also stepped on my center appendage a time or two. For the last 8 years, I have built, and currently own and manage, a resort in Fiji. Those who know me laugh when they hear that I am in the hospitality business. I am definitely the "back of the house" guy, while my wife of 42 years charms the guests to no end. I can do the engineering work but am not very effective at public relations. Without help and support from my wife and family, my business would likely go south.

Steve Lawing at SAS is much like me. He builds a great car, but creates his own problems by promising build times he can't deliver. He is also ineffective at public relations, just like I am. I know, because I have money in the game. Do I wish it was otherwise? Sure, I wish my car had a 2-month build time. Do I have options? None that I know of, if I want the car he builds. I did lots of research prior to committing to SAS. No one else builds cars like he does. I talked to other owners before committing, some of whom contribute to this forum. The wait is a killer, but I'm hanging tough. When it's done, it's going to be kick-ass. Keep smiling, everybody, and enjoy your rides. All of us have the stuff that counts in common.

One of these days, I MIGHT (OK, probably NEVER) be able to afford to have Henry build my dream car (a black IM Speedster powered by 2.2 911S). In the meantime, I'm driving the piss out of my trouble-free entry level '95 VS on a daily basis (125,000Km and counting). An SEG is an SEG.

With all things considered, I know that if I were on my deathbed TODAY, I WOULDN'T be saying..."I sure wish I had WAITED to...."

...I'm just saying...

As I said early in this thread, I think it's pretty presumptious of anyone who thinks ahead 3 years in the world we currently live in, but I guess I'm showing my age.....

Jimbo....don't even think about going to the dark side...(IM) we need to keep our wits about us....

WITS?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Look it up in the dick-shun-ary

Look it up in the dick-shun-ary

http://www.hawaiimagazine.com/images/content/Maui_Witts_End_Mel_Witt_video/MelWitt2.jpg