SAW complaints??

OK, I am researching different companies for a friend because I had a few before and he trust my opinion and so far SAW is more appealing to him,well I emailed a few SAW owners to see it they were coming to Carlisle and one of them was sTeve O'brien with the black on black SAW cabrio, I asked him where is sourced his bumper over riders and thats all and he emailed me back stating " he was advised from his attorney to not discuss anything about SAW." Well I was wondering because of the potential build if anyone has had any problems with Steve from SAW. I am hesitant to advise my friend to procede if there is something to be leary about. I googled rep companies and found there was one major complaint in1998 with them and so far thats the only negative info I can find. I personally am inclined to make my own informed decisions but when advising a friend I want to really cover all avenues, any insights would be helpful and goes without saying in complete confidence, thankyou

Jane, It is not the quality of the car. It's the build time. It can take up to three years. Most people will loose their marbles before the car is finished.

I see that would be me definately, but I was puzzled when I asked a question about where he out sourced his bumper over riders for his SAS cabrio, nothing about SAS and he said he was under the advice of his attorney not to discuss SAS, I thought it strange considering his cab was built several years ago

JIM, VINCE - BEER AND POPCORN TIME

Steve's saga is an unfortunate one. I don't know the details of his disagreement with SAS, but I know his car was totalled when he was rear ended several years back. I would look elsewhere for information, such as with John Hallstrand, who drives the first one sold and who posts here often. There were 4 SAS cars at Carlisle last year, all with happy owners.

If I can find the picture I have of all four, I'll post it here.

thanks Lane, that makes good sense, it frankly sounds to me like it may even have nothing to do with the actual build so it would not be relevant anyway to the info I'm seeking. Thanks and I did contact two other SAS owners to see if they were coming. Very anxious for Carlisle.

Up to a three year wait....Holy crap!!!

Yeah, they're a small operation with only two guys 2 guys. Full disclosure: I don't have an SAS car, but I have visited them twice with John Hallstrand and benefitted from their hospitality after last year's run on the Tail of the Dragon, when they served us all BBQ. Steve and his wife, and Tom (his assistant) are good folks, but they can only put them out so fast.

Here's the pic of the four cars from Carlisle '09. From left to right it's John Hallstrand, Rob Young, Nolan Scott, and Charles Gardner.

Jane, rather to descend into a "beer and popcorn" thread you might want to consider e-mailing the owners individually. I would be happy to answer the questions as well as I can. I am the first owner and am and continue to be very pleased with my "Red Man."
Hoss

Ditto what John said Jane. Email him, Charles Gardner or myself and we'll fill you in on the whole story.

Jane,

You said above "Thanks and I did contact two other SAS owners to see if they were coming. Very anxious for Carlisle."

If you're coming to Carlisle, I haven't received an RSVP from you. If you are interested in participating in the Friday lunch or any/all of the three dinners I need to know. We are already full Friday night and having people go to an alternate location for dinner and the other venues are almost full. Just an FYI.

ECB

I strongly recommend joining us instead of going solo. It'll A LOT more fun, and you'll have plenty of time to get answers to your question involving SAS as well as those that you really don't want answers to ;-). We're just them kinda folks.

Wasn't the fellow from SAS doing a 3 year stretch for tax evasion or embezzeling or something?

Funny how everyone neglects to mention that...

"Wasn't the fellow from SAS doing a 3 year stretch for tax evasion or embezzeling or something?"

Yeah, and there's some dickhead who seems to take pleasure in dredging up old shit for some strange, twisted reason.

Yeah, some dickhead better check his sources before he's sued for slander. There a few attorneys on this site site that know the true story and would like to make a few bucks. Somehow people forget this site is world wide and what you say or imply can land you in a heap of trouble. Take for example the incident during the last Tail of The Dragon Run. Plus I'm sure this site would not post SAS on it's cover page if it wasn't strictly legal.


Stretch this Vince!

I assume you guys are referring to the "Big Bopper" as the so-called "dickhead", but it seems reasonable that when one asks about a certain builder and wants a reference that this would come up at some point, since it is part of it's history...
I don't detect any slander so far...
Gerd, can you please pass me the Scotch...
Nolan...Consider it stretched....

OK

My apologies to you, Vince. I should have been more clear that I was referring to the guy who likes to go to old, volatile threads and revive them to stir things up. In no way would I ever call you a dickhead.

Everyone knows, by your own admission, that you are an ass man. ;)

Truth to be is there was NO stretch served, indictment was dropped and all parties were satisfied. Now let's put this to bed or I'll bring up the Green coupe from another builder.

HEY NOLAN,WHERE U BEEN, YA NOT READING EVERYDAY, DICKHEAD BROUGHT IT UP LAST WEEK.
I REREAD THE GREEN COUPE THREAD AFTER THE DICKHEAD BROUGHT IT UP.
ACTUALLY LAUGHED MY ASS OFF AFTER READING IT.
ONLY QUESTION I GOT AFTER REREADING IT WAS WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO ESTHER

Sorry Gerd, must have missed that post. Sorry I was hard on dickhead, just don't like people talking about things they don't really know about. I prefer getting my info from National Enquirer. I'm sure he must have "some" redeeming values.

LOL

Terry, no appologies necessary, I knew who you meant, besides, I been called much worse...
The "Big Bopper" has some issues to be sure, but the point is that there was, at the very least an inquiry into the actions of a certain builder, and regardless of it's outcome, mentioning that on this thread seemed reasonable to me, but it sounds like a sore subject to some, which of course makes it much more interesting to some of us...
Thanks Gerd...

Hey Vince you're right, I fell for the "bait" and had to reply. Much like calling the Pope a pedophile, sure to piss some people off. But as another Vietnam Vet I know what it's like to be accused or called down for something you didn't do.

So he was never in the 'casa grande'?

Nope.

What!? Someone did time for building a green coupe to avoid paying taxes?






I kid because I love. :-)


Jane,
I think it depends on whether your friend wants to wait a verrrrrryyyyy longtime to get their car. From what I've read SAS makes a very nice car but, as mentioned, it's two guys and well............................ do the math.
There's plenty of info on here about them, good and bad.


Personally, there ain't a car in the world I'd wait three years for, but then again, I'm a different breed of cat.

HEY MICKEY,
I WAITED ALMOST 3 YEARS FOR MY COUPE
GOD I LOVE THAT TOW TRUCK IDIOT

Jane: I did a lot of research into Speedster/356 replicas before placing my order with SAW. I was impressed with their quality, safety and attention to detail. To me they represented the biggest bang for the buck. Unfortunately, due to a change in retirement plans, I had to cancel with SAW. To the best of my knowledge my "position" in the queue is still available and could potentially reduce delivery time for a new customer.

Well... It'll be 4 years in May since I put my initial order in. Still no car. I tried to sell my position a few years ago with no luck. I'll admit I'm sick of waiting, and can't wait until I either have the car or can tell my wife it's not coming and quit asking! If I could do it all over again I would have chosen more wisely.

Four years? I would surely discuss options with an attorney. ~

I just read Kris's past posts, he's been waiting to sell his spot in the SAS queue since 2007. It was contracted to be a flared turbo Cabriolet in 2006, mine and a number of cars have been completed since then, most were contracted after Kris told SAS to sell his contract. Not that much demand for a 300hp+ Cabriolet so it's been shelved until his spot is bought out. Once a contractor places his spot up for sale the car, if partially constructed, is covered and moved to the side while other active contracts are worked on. Places in the queue have been sold and completed once negotiations between contractor and buyer have been completed, then SAS brings back the position or the partially completed car is put back into active status. While mine was being assembled, a red Cabriolet was under covers because the contractor was having difficulties with finances, rather than complete the car and selling it to another customer, SAS waited until the contractor was able to pay for it. I think it was the one that on eBay.

Dr. Clock (Alan), I note that when someone on the forum indicates that they have had to wait a long time for a specialty car to be completed, someone always brings up the notion of consulting an attorney. Can anyone on the forum cite me one example where bringing a lawyer into the assembly of an automobile ever sped up the assembly? I would think that the first thing that would happen if a lawsuit were filed is that the builder would stop work. What good will remains after a lawsuit is filed?

While many lawyers are car enthusiasts as well and are very familiar with specialty car assembly, I would bet that most are not and are generally not familiar with the working practices of specialty car builders.

I have five replicas completed and only one that will likely never be completed because of assembler illness. While I consult attorneys on several other matters, completing cars is not one of them.

Nolan-

I'm glad you're happy with your decision, but if I am reading what you are saying correctly- your line of reasoning makes no sense to me at all. If a "place in the queue" is not an actual place in the queue, what exactly IS it?

Am I to understand that as soon as a buyer decides to sell his "spot", that construction stops, unless a new potential buyer can be found who wants the exact same thing? What happens if work has not commenced on the car? How far is this line of reasoning taken?

During the (protracted) wait for your car, you told the critics that the wait was OK with you- and as long as it was OK with the builder and the customer, then it was nobody else's business. That may well be. But the implication is that all of this is agreeable to every buyer. Kris clearly seems to be disappointed with this arrangement.

It takes as long as it takes- but it would be good for potential buyers to have an honest assessment of the lead times and the nature of the arraignment, before he enters into it.

Stan/Nolan
There are probably as many different situations that can occur between the buyer and builder as your imagination can conjure up. I think both of you may be oversimplifying the situations that do arise and the builder has to deal with each.

First, from my long term observation of SAS, a place in the queue is in fact a place in the queue. But, this is a somewhat idealistic portrayal of what actually occurs.

Let me share one real-life example. We might all handle it a little differently. SAS starts to assemble a car. A progress payment comes due and the buyer cannot pay. The buyer says I cannot pay but I do not want to sell my place in the queue, so set my car aside and go to the next car. Later, the buyer comes back after a long period of time and wishes to sell his position in the queue. Now, what is his position in the queue? Not so simple now.

But, what if the builder has not started the car and a guy wants to buy another's place in the queue? Doesn't matter which model it is, right? Wrong. The body, frame, engine and other components have probably been purchased. So, what would you do to try and maintain the integrity of the queue?

I can sit here and rattle off about 10 of these scenarios since I have been working with car assemblers (about 12 years). All a builder can do is to maintain the integrity of the queue as best he knows how.

I can almost assure you that if a situation shows up for discussion on SOC, it is not just a buy, build and deliver set of circumstances. Since SAS is very small, situations that perturb the front of the queue tend to ripple throughout the queue. Therefore, a buyer who does his research prior to ordering, makes all his progress payments on time, and makes no changes in configuration is likely to be impacted by those that don't.

I never told Steve to stop my build. I simply mentioned to him that I may be interested in selling off my spot. Since that time we have spoken about progress several times and I was assured it was moving along. As of the last time we touched base (Jan) there was 1 car he was going to finish and then he was to build my car along with 3 others in a "mini assembly line" all 4 are turbos.

If there are any people that put their downpayment after mine and are driving their car now i'd love to hear from you. I understand that the design keeps changing, and I would love to have the latest enhancements, but at this rate I may be retired by the time I get it. I joke with my friends that I have conceived and my wife has delivered 2 kids and who knows maybe we'll have number 3 before steve can build 1 car for me!

I know I don't post on here much mostly because I have nothing good to add. I don't have never owned a speedster, and mostly come here to read what the others are up to and if any SAW cars are completed.

I'd also like to add that when I originally spoke with Steve to start the build I was told it would take 10 months. I read some posts on here and it looked like the more realistic time was 2 years. I was OK with that since I wanted the car in 2 years 4 months for my 30th bday. In late 2006 or early 2007 I put in a progress payment once the body and chassis were complete. Then I got very busy with my business, and did not stay on top of him very well. We would speak every 3-4 months and about 2 months before my bday we discussed colors. He said it wasn't going to make the deadline. At that point I really didn't care much anymore, and just let it happen. We spoke every 4 months or so, always something delaying the build... painter delayed... new enhancements...etc. I told him I was thinking of selling my spot in line and asked if he had anyone interested in moving up. He fully understood that I still wanted the car, and to continue as planned, just that if someone came along I would possibly sell my place.

I am only posting this to hopefully save a potential buyer. If you want to buy a SAW know that it will take long. Build some time requirements into your contract so that if they are not met, you can get your money back. I feel somewhat stuck, and understand that it is what it is. One day I'll either be driving a beautiful speedster, or have learned a very valuable lesson about contracting to build a custom car with much less $$ in my pocket. There's my 2 cents... see Steve at SAW for the rest of it. :)