screen clip installation

Trying to translate a bit here, Red:

"and are the latches threaded to the brass screen?"

I know that you're referring to the windscreen in the rest of the post, but in the line above do you mean the header piece which mounts to the top of the windscreen?  Most of us have a curved header piece made of fiberglass, not Brass, so I'm confused.

And you pictured latch looks like what Beck uses (and I may be wrong...)

Help!   Gordon

To me that looks like the frame from Carlos in Mexico or a real Porsche Cab/Roadster frame or maybe Mangos. As Gordon said most Speedsters use 2 hoop steel top bows and a fiberglass or urethane header bow.  The clamps usually latch onto raised portion of the aluminum windshield frame. My speedster is not on site so can't measure for you.

Hi Gordon I am making the header rail out of metal forming it around a piece of hardwood cut to the same shape and thickness as the screen which I will then attach the latches to. It's the spacing of the female part of the latches on the screen and as to whether they are threaded into the screen frame.

(I found this whilst looking for info...might be of use for anyone wanting to fit sun visors)  see pic.

Steve;

Nice artwork. Lots of talent, check out his website.

Art

Red Barron my advise is allow enough clearance between the windshield frame and header bow for the canvas and possibly a rubber seal.

We currently busy with our own scissor roof we hoping to replicate an original as closely as possible included will be a steel header bow, the two roof bows and a third Bow/ rear cowl bow to keep the canvas taut.

Obtaining dimensions is not as easy task, I have taken reference from various builds both from originals and replicas , SOC has also been a good source of informationand others. 

We have the scissor roof articulation all sorted ( Low Bow) and we have already manufactured a steel template tool to fabricate the header bow which requires the sheet metal to be hammered into shape over the steel template, one header bow requires 2 off  x 1mm  sheet metal plates then overlayed and hammered again and then spot welded together . It requires a lot of  sheet metal skills and patience a once off it is a viable solution. 

The steel template tool 

First sheet metal header bow attempt hammered over the steel template, looks easy believe you me, this requires a certain skill. 

Roof bow bending jig

My good friend Armand testing out the articulation

Third Bow /Rear Cowl bow

As a tool , Jig and Die maker by trade with many years in the press tool manufacturing Industry, the next step is to manufacture a simple non expensive press tool ( intended for a small production run), I also recently received our new CAM software this will definitely aid the CNC machining process, I am hoping to start Machining the press tool end of January 2017. Although this will only consist of a form tool ( Drop Hammer Tool) the trim cut will have do be done manually. 

Nice work, hope I can get my metal sculpture head on soon.

www.stevefirth.com

Hmmmm?  I applaud your efforts, but aren't you really reinventing the wheel here?  All of the manufactures have already done the engineering for Speedster tops, so I'm not just buy one of them?

HI  Troy

My reasoning for going with a metal header rail is so I hopefully won't need the 3rd latch to stop the leaks. Have you tried buying an all metal authentic looking roof frame? Has anyone on here every installed the type of latches above...I know the glass will have to be removed but are the scews in the latches threaded to the thin brass frame or stuck with gorilla glue and sticky tape?

There is a notch in the frame that the latch slips into.   Vintage sells a special 3rd clip that attaches to the center of the bow and the bar that goes from the frame through the dash.   It's pretty easy to stop the leaks from the top of the windshield, it's the leaks from, the side and below that you need to be concerned about. 

US Speedster windshield frames are polished extruded aluminum - not chrome plated brass.  You could remove glass and probably rivet your top clamps onto the frame - just be careful that they are near flush with the frame so they don't nick and break the glass. 

The fiberglass/urethane header is a pretty good fit to the windshield especially with a little rubber gasket.  I dumped the ill fitting 30 year old CMC fiberglass header and now use a much better fitting out of the box VS urethane header. 

Red Baron posted:

HI  Troy

 

My reasoning for going with a metal header rail is so I hopefully won't need the 3rd latch to stop the leaks. Have you tried buying an all metal authentic looking roof frame? Has anyone on here every installed the type of latches above...I know the glass will have to be removed but are the scews in the latches threaded to the thin brass frame or stuck with gorilla glue and sticky tape?

I don't believe that particular leaking spot is a question of fiberglass/plastic/wood vs metal. It's that the cheaper frames only consist of the 2 hoops and no scissor assembly. This means the header is not connected to anything but the canvas so when you tighten the top, the header wants to twist backwards and opens a gap. The third latch ties the center into the windshield enough to prevent most of that, but by having the scissor frame tied into the header, it can't twist and 2 latches should be sufficient.

justinh posted:

Red Baron posted:

HI  Troy

 

My reasoning for going with a metal header rail is so I hopefully won't need the 3rd latch to stop the leaks. Have you tried buying an all metal authentic looking roof frame? Has anyone on here every installed the type of latches above...I know the glass will have to be removed but are the scews in the latches threaded to the thin brass frame or stuck with gorilla glue and sticky tape?

I don't believe that particular leaking spot is a question of fiberglass/plastic/wood vs metal. It's that the cheaper frames only consist of the 2 hoops and no scissor assembly. This means the header is not connected to anything but the canvas so when you tighten the top, the header wants to twist backwards and opens a gap. The third latch ties the center into the windshield enough to prevent most of that, but by having the scissor frame tied into the header, it can't twist and 2 latches should be sufficient.

I agree 100% with Justin's comments, the many reasons is it much easier to operate, opening and closing the top literally is a one hand operation, with the Third Bow/ Rear Cowl Bow you can have a nice taut canvas all the stresses is on the Scissor frame and not the windshield, the Steel header Bow is pretty rigid and not so bulky as the plastic header bows. the extension arms to the Steel header bow I am assuming will also support  the canvas top window opening to speedster window curtain set.

 I have obtained a few quotes for a reproduction speedster scissor roof frame (not a replica roof frame)  this could cost you between 2000~5500 USD  this excludes shipping costs,  it will also require some mods to fit a replica speedster.

Thanks for all the info you guys, most informative ...still had no response to drilling and tapping the frame other than Wolfgangs suggestions.

Fitting the speedster top latch if you going to fit the reproduction original latch I would remove the windshield glass, remove the rubber seal,  obtain the correct screws (Windshield Frame Screw Set),  mark the hole position of the latch, drill and tap. I cant recall where I read this it was suggested to use helicoils/ thread inserts and apply thread locker (loctite) and then fasten the latch screws into the helicoil.

Helecoils now there's a thing...I did think of putting a countersunk bolt in from the screen side and maybe acorn nuts to the outside that shows...thanks Manny.

That top frame looks almost exactly like the Beck top.  The only difference that can see is that the Beck is a high bow top.

Red:  I come from the computer biz and we used to use "Pem Nuts" on sheetmetal when we needed some extra thread strength.  

http://catalog.pemnet.com/cate...d-panel-nuts-type-sh

Insert a low-profile one from the back (inside) of the channel, press it tightly in and you're good to go.  they come in all sizes and thread pitches.

Here's a folding top on ebay that looks like it uses a fiberglass header or maybe metal - either way good closeup of the header

WkAAOSwImRYYTzL&vxp=mtr" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsch...ImRYYTzL&vxp=mtr

Hi Wolfgang, yip that is steel header bow fitted with a headerbow wrapping material.

 This was the standard process for the original speedster scissor roof. 

Manny posted:

Fitting the speedster top latch if you going to fit the reproduction original latch I would remove the windshield glass, remove the rubber seal,  obtain the correct screws (Windshield Frame Screw Set),  mark the hole position of the latch, drill and tap. I cant recall where I read this it was suggested to use helicoils/ thread inserts and apply thread locker (loctite) and then fasten the latch screws into the helicoil.

Hi Manny love the former you made I take it you are going into production? I managed to find the Helicoils I think you (and Gordon) are referring to, in the U.K. there is a product called Riv Nuts which creates a thread which differs from helicoils which are more intended for repair of existing treads.

Could you tell me the distance between the centre rod hole that you attach the rear view mirror to and the first hole for the latch as your picture above?

many thanks for your imput

www.stevefirth.com

Red Baron posted:

Manny posted:

Fitting the speedster top latch if you going to fit the reproduction original latch I would remove the windshield glass, remove the rubber seal,  obtain the correct screws (Windshield Frame Screw Set),  mark the hole position of the latch, drill and tap. I cant recall where I read this it was suggested to use helicoils/ thread inserts and apply thread locker (loctite) and then fasten the latch screws into the helicoil.

Hi Manny love the former you made I take it you are going into production? I managed to find the Helicoils I think you (and Gordon) are referring to, in the U.K. there is a product called Riv Nuts which creates a thread which differs from helicoils which are more intended for repair of existing treads.

Could you tell me the distance between the centre rod hole that you attach the rear view mirror to and the first hole for the latch as your picture above?

many thanks for your imput

www.stevefirth.com

 

 

This will help let Manny know you're trying to contact him:

@Manny Red Baron is trying to get in touch with you on the SOC website.

Robert M posted:

Red Baron posted:

Manny posted:

Fitting the speedster top latch if you going to fit the reproduction original latch I would remove the windshield glass, remove the rubber seal,  obtain the correct screws (Windshield Frame Screw Set),  mark the hole position of the latch, drill and tap. I cant recall where I read this it was suggested to use helicoils/ thread inserts and apply thread locker (loctite) and then fasten the latch screws into the helicoil.

Hi Manny love the former you made I take it you are going into production? I managed to find the Helicoils I think you (and Gordon) are referring to, in the U.K. there is a product called Riv Nuts which creates a thread which differs from helicoils which are more intended for repair of existing treads.

Could you tell me the distance between the centre rod hole that you attach the rear view mirror to and the first hole for the latch as your picture above?

many thanks for your imput

www.stevefirth.com

 

 

This will help let Manny know you're trying to contact him:

@Manny Red Baron is trying to get in touch with you on the SOC website.

Hi Robert M & Red Barron,

This week is a hectic week for me, please allow me to reply accordingly next week. 

I can offer up this experience: Saw a pair of billet machined clasps that Carey uses at Carlisle, and he made me a deal on them.  I had the builder's original cheap Chinese spring-ey things, and they were the pits.  So set about to upgrade.  To fit the new clasp to the header bow required re-glassing in the routed out section where the original clasp was screwed in.  New clasp required to be mounted on the inside of the bow flush on the surface, not recessed.  So did that.  The windshield frame was already pulled out away from the glass a little to allow the hook of the original to gain purchase.  I was advised that one could tap holes into this aluminum so as to mount the new hook half of the new clasp.  Hmmm . . .  This is mighty thin stock, and I know it's done, but I was not thrilled at the prospect.  So I made sure the mounting screws were cut/ground to just the right length, and I fit a nut up into the space between frame and glass.  tricky business there but it worked.

As to the third latch, see my rendition of a bent piece of steel copied I think from a design by Stroud.  Put a little bit of tape on either end to avoid scratches, and you're good to go.

Clasp mounted to the bow, with filler underneath:

The third clasp just to be sure. 1/16th steel, bent in C shape. Easy.

Nuts behind to give proper threads.  Not too long, else engage the glass -- NO!

Did you have to take the frame off the car to do the nuts?

Negative.  Just slid them up between the frame and the glass.  But recall that the frame had already been bent out and away from the glass for an inch or so, as this is the way the old clips gained their purchase.  If the frame anyone wants to deal with is not already bent this way, I am not sure how you do that bending in-situ.  Could be risky vs. the glass, but maybe can be done.  Perhaps others here have tried and know the scoop??

I drilled and tapped the frame at the sides for Tenax studs for the tabs on the front of my top. I was a bit nervous doing that. Every couple of turns of the tap I ground a bit off so it wouldn't contact the glass.