Seatbelt or harness?

Hi Folks,

What do you have fitted?

The CMC kit I have has no provision for shoulder mount, something would have to be fabricated, (using the redundant section that sits in the general area of the "b" post).

A fixing could be probably be found easier in the back seat area for the harness.....Having used harnesses in a road car in the past, I always found them to be a real pain, restricting movement...But they would be an easier and maybe safer option.....

Any thoughts/opinions

Cheers
Gerry

CROW 3" latch and link lap belt.

I'll second that. Here's a pic of the CROW belts in my car. They're available in several colors. This set was less than $90, if I recall. You can add the shoulder belt(s) later if you fabrictae a proper mount.

sadly I would not get away with a lap belt in the UK, needs to be at least 3 points fixing

You could still use the CROW belts, but you'll have to fabricate some sort of roll bar for attachment of the shoulder belt. Some Speedsters have them attached on the floor behind the seat, but such a location will not help in a crash of any significance. The shoulder belt mounting point needs to be as close to shoulder height as possible. I would like to do something like that myself, but I have yet to figure out how. Whatever soulution would need to be welded to the frame - not just bolted to the floor.

Im trying to find some of the old style seatbelt course woven stock still on the roll for sell by the foot.. In BLACK

I want to remake my beetle seat belts that hook on the hoop in the middle.. But make them a shoulder harness type.. with updated retractors .. I used the same early style in the speedster ,but only as lap belts. I like that classic course weeve look...

If the laws ever change here in the US..
I'd like to keep that look and do the same upgrade to the speedster.

I have the 3 point brackets all figured out. as to how I want it to look and Im taking my ques from Late model Benz with the retracting shoulder arms But redesigning it into something very simple.. If Im very lucky?? I may not even need retractors. The arms will do that for me..

JPS supplies his cars with a three point harness, standard new car issue stuff. The retractable shoulder belt is anchored into the door post behind the drivers left shoulder and passenger's right shoulder. The roll bar is only cosmetic in mine, so no anchor there. Works fine.

Anyone have any photos of that area with shoulder fixing in place?

Right now all I have is a B post, not connected to anything and it stops short of where a shoulder mount would be.....

I'll get some pics

I originally had the same sort of 3-point belt in mine, but the mounting point was too low to provide much safety, and the inertia real tension pulling down on my shoulder got uncomfortable on a long drive.

I agree with Lane, They mount them kind a low. I.d like to see a post mounted shoulder unit,that retracts into the sides of the rear compartmnet and comes out and up when you pull the belt up and out to latch it ..

The Benz units are electic retracting units that move out of the way when the door is opened I want mine to be counterweighted. there is room behind the post to make a mecnisum that could be hidden.

I don't have a roll bar in my car.. I have seen the temperary units that have hole plugs. but I get out there and cut up like that. why add it.. Its just something to bump your noodle on. My noodle dont need it..

Gerry:

Do you have the CMC "decorative" roll bar??

I have the roll bar in mine, and used that as the mounting point for the top of the arc for the shoulder belts.

Don't know what the laws define for you in Scotland, but if you can get away easier with regular, 3-point belts a-la modern cars, then I got mine from a 1992 Chrysler convertible (just happened to be the color I wanted to match, was super-clean and I bagged the seats, seat belts, belt retractors/inertial brakes, a bunch of trim and other bits).

I mounted the retractors right behind the seats on the forward vertical lip of the rear seat (they bolt into the sub-frame), mounted the buckle latch belt into the tunnel just behind the front seats (ran a BIG bolt right through the tunnel, down low), mounted the shoulder belt anchor into the sub-frame just outside of the seats and mounted the shoulder arc-corner loops through the roll bar so they sit at the right height. Everything was color-matched to my CMC el-cheapo vinyl trim, too.

Let me know if you need pictures and I'll scoot out and take some to email over.

gn

Thanks!

I dont have the roll bar...

I would have to fabricate something for the shoulder mount..

Cheers
Gerry

Next best thing, then, would be just behind the door, as far up the side as is practical. Run a large-ish 1/4" thick plate on the back side of the fiberglass and/or make an attach point on the vertical frame member just behind the door stiker plate to give it all adequate strength.

Peek up in the driver's rear wheel well and you'll see what I'm talking about.

gn

Gordon,

I have been pondering how to attach my seat belts on the tunnel side.

I thought about the big bolt through the tunnel scheme but was afraid I might hit something inside.

Also, depending where I went through, the tunnel sides are not parallel.

Can you give me more information about what you did?

I also considered welding a small plate with a nut on the back side to the tunnel.

Mike McKelvey

Yes Gordan I know exzactly the spot your talking about . It was even suggested by a freind to just bolt the retractor down in there and to do as you said with a belt guide tower but make it out of stainless steel 3/8 rod with a bolt plate right behind the seat.

It would not be to hard to refine this to the point that it looks and works neat.

Mickey:

It's been long enough that I had to go out to see what the heck I did!!

The bolt goes through about 1-1/2" up off the deck, so it misses all of the tubes, cables, mouse runs and clockwork springs that make the car go.

It's a BIG bolt, something like a 7/16" x 10"+ long and inside the tunnel I slipped a piece of 1/2" ID Black Iron Pipe over the bolt to act as a spacer between the tunnel sides. Put a washer on the outside on both sides, use a BIG Nylock on one side and crank it down until it locks the precisely-cut-for-length spacer between the tunnel sides and that's it (remember to install the seat belt anchors on the bolt, too.....I forgot to mention that above). I cut off the excess end of the bolt flush with the nylock nut and the seat belt decorative anchor cover fits over everything to make it look nice (although everything's out of sight once the seat is installed).

That's it.....gn

Hmmm, I don't have easy access to the inside of the tunnel for the black iron spacer.

How far behind the rear of the emergency brake is it?

Gerry, you might want to look at these threads too:

https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=13412
https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=14414

I think you can safely attach lap belts to a steel floor if you use large backup washers under the floor (my washers are 36 square inches at each of the four attach points). I would not recommend attaching a seat belt to fiberglass.

The CMC rollbar, while not of NASCAR quality or strength, does provide good shoulder belt attach points with minimal modification. And even though this rollbar is labeled as decorative, it's probably as crashworthy as the car itself...hardly built like a tank. You would be well advised to keep shoulder belt attach points higher than your shoulder height (or risk breaking your shoulders should the belts ever be used in a crash).

If welding isn't out of the question, I'd sure weld yourself some half-inch bolts to the sturdy metal around the perimeter of the floor and on the tunnel. I don't know how well average pans would hold up to 150-200 lbs. being jerked up short in a collision.
If you do go with the bolt-through-pan method, I'd avoid doing it at the low points where water collects; that last little dip in the pan before it turns upward behind the seat is a rust-prone site if ever there was one.
My old pans were rusty where the bolts passed through them, and there were pieces of metal there to suggest that my old chassis had been re-panned (is that a word?) three times. It ALL needed a careful going over. The washers were fused to the bolt with thick, crusty rust, and the pans were in terrible shape under the seats.
My current arangement is probably overkill for daily use, but they're very, very strong and took less than two hours to place, weld and then adjust the belts.
The belts themselves were pretty much free from a guy who couldn't use them anymore because they were out of date for racing. They're all over racingjunk.com -- http://www.racingjunk.com/post/1358733/RJS-5-Point-Cam-Lock-Seatbelts.html -- for example, as people take them out of race cars and replace them as periodicity dictates.

FWIW, I attached my shoulder harness to the pivot bolt for the top bows, which is high behind the seats and into the metal subframe.

Chuck

Yeah, that's a good spot, for sure.

Just to make sure it wouldn't pull out when needed, I might look up behind there and see how you could reinforce the anchor points to the vertical frame member sitting right up in that areas within the wheel well. Fit in the biggest, 1/4" thick piece of steel you can fit as a backplate, and then finagle an attachment to the anchor bolt into the vertical frame member.

Always better to be safe...