Seats

@Erik A Hopperton, Is the car pictured yours?  If so, I believe I was the original owner.

Hi Lane,

The seams in my Speedster starting falling apart as I took my first drive.  Two years in, I had to do something, so I took them to an upholster in Maine.

First, he's about the best going.  He works on only totally refurbished cars, several that he's done himself.  He has gazillionaire clients.  He's a 6-7", foul-mouthed, Harley driving, long-haired, muscle-car building from parts in a box, kind of guy and he seemingly takes pride in not suffering fools.  So,  you can image what he thought when I pulled into his place.

He and I took an immediate dislike to each other.  I learned about 35 seconds after arriving at his shop, that my Speedster was a "piece of ****" and that he absolutely wouldn't work on it.  So I stayed, toured his workspace and openly lusted and fawned over his small collection of cars.  Before I left, he had agreed to take a look at my seats -- but no promises.

When I returned, he informed me that, as he suspected, my seats were NEVER designed to be upholstered.  They didn't have "tabs" where the leather/fabric had to be attached.  Rivets or staples were not viable solutions as there were no tabs and the seats are fiberglass/plastic.  Even the strongest glue is ineffectual.  He went on to say, my seats are racing bucket seats.  Designed for a racer to slip a reusable canvas seat over (padded and form-fitted for the seat and maybe the driver) and stitched tightly in place at the track through those slits in the seat backs.  When soiled they were washed or replaced. 

Sooooo.  If you buy seat buckets, make sure they are designed (been modified) to be upholstered.  And while at it, since you are actually building a car, why don't you do some research and consider installing an authentic set of canvas racing seats?  Might be kinda cool.

Hope this is helpful and good luck with your project.

Marshall

Marshall,

I would venture that there's not a single speedster seat on this site with tabs. Not one. Somehow, we've been able to slum through life with it.

Don't know about slumming.......or why you'd even suggest that

But wouldn't doing some research and considering using a real, old-school, canvas racing seat cover be an interesting diversion? 

Hi Eric.  My original post was meant for you. Hope it's helpful.

Marshall

@Lane Anderson posted:

@Erik A Hopperton, Is the car pictured yours?  If so, I believe I was the original owner.

I wish I just happened across the photos and liked the style and clean look.  I want simple look yet functional.

@Marshall posted:

Don't know about slumming.......or why you'd even suggest that

Because you said:

@Marshall posted:

...my seats were NEVER designed to be upholstered. They didn't have "tabs" where the leather/fabric had to be attached.  Rivets or staples were not viable solutions as there were no tabs and the seats are fiberglass/plastic.  Even the strongest glue is ineffectual.

Thousands of fiberglass speedster buckets have been successfully and beautifully upholstered using the methods your guy says are not viable. I'm "slumming" because I've been running something "NEVER designed to be upholstered" for over 20 years.

As far as a canvas cover being an interesting diversion - perhaps? I've never seen it on any pictures of old Porsche racers from the 50s or 60s, so I'm wondering how it can be a "real, old-school, canvas racing seat cover", but I'd love to see what you are talking about.

@Marshall posted:

Hi Eric.  My original post was meant for you. Hope it's helpful.

Marshall

Appreciate the feedback, if you have the contact info for that guy I would be curious to contact him.  My kid plays ball at URI so I am out that way alot and could easily detour.

Slumming ??  WTF is that ?  What context is this ?  How does it relate here. Or why ?

Bruce

Erik,

Leo Custom Auto Upholstery. (207) 782-3822

Monmouth ME

No website. Maybe Facebook?

I wasn’t kidding about the man. He’s scary at first but turned out to be a gentle giant.
Hope he proves helpful.
Marshall

Marshall your "upholstery guy" is genuinely full of crap. Speedster seats have been upholstered over fiberglass seats shells for decades and continue to be constructed this way to date, As I initially said and recommended to you, your Speedster needs to be stored indoors and not outdoors as you do 24 / 7.  By doing so, this is the majority of your overall issues.

@Erik A Hopperton

First, decide how long you intend to sit in your car seats when driving.  Speedster seats are notorious for getting "achy" after a couple of hours.  The alternative is to go with a cabriolet seat - softer, more supportive and your back will thank you after a few hours.  Speedster seats were also exclusive to Speedster cars and meant for racing.  If your Kitman is a coupe, you should/might consider a coupe/cabriolet seat to look "right" (whatever that is).

You'll have to measure the width of where the seat sits in the car to see how much room you have.  VW pans only allow seats that are 16-3/4" wide at the mounting point, while Beck and potentially Kitman, with a tube frame, allow wider seat bottoms, like 18"+.

Of course, you can always get what you have re-upholstered and can probably find someone easier to get along with in your area - Ohio.  Shipping a pair of seats across country one-way is probably looking at $500+ before you even consider upholstery.  

Beck and Vintage Motorcars Inc. use similar seat shells and the upholstery they use/offer simply pulls on like a couch slip cover.  No tabs, no glue, no rivets, no BS.  The Speedster seat cushion is very much like a Porsche 914 but thinner.  Get the thicker seat cushion for a much more comfortable seat.  

I have no idea what the heck the guy in Maine was talking about with supposedly not having "tabs" to attach the upholstery to, nor have I ever seen "canvass racing seat covers", but if you want to avoid the available upholstery kits and want to spring for high-end upholstery done on your seats that looks fabulous, then look up Fred Carello in Warwick, RI on Facebook (that's a click-able link).  He is literally the best, East of the Mississippi, does a LOT of classic cars of all types (He did a lot of the Ralph Lauren collection, among many others) and is super-easy to work with.  Just be aware that these days, he is booked completely up 2+ years in advance.

Lastly, on the seat glides, start searching on Speedwaymotors.com

https://www.speedwaymotors.com...der-Tracks,7103.html

and then widen the search by googling "Street Rod Seats" or something like that.  You want a seat that looks kinda-sorta like a Porsche seat, but in a Kitman coupe you have a lot of latitude in what looks good.  Just remember than anything Porsche related will cost you 10X more.

Good hunting

My Spyder has red seats like the tan ones in the picture above. I’m 6’2” 275# and I think they’re as comfortable as can be. The bolsters grip my hips underneath all the fat and hold me in place for all but the most spirited driving.

A Gordon said - if your Kitman is VW pan based then 18" wide seat bottom is best you can do and still have it slide.  CMC came with fiberglass shells with stitched upholstery but you had to prep the fiberglass by adding plywood strips for the covers to be stapled to.  The hot rod/dune buggy seat slide work well (about $40 per side).

Here's details on building the CMC seats -

@Erik A Hopperton  I used the aluminum bomber style seats that you have shown in your original post.  I used the slider tracks that Gordon linked above.  My seat bottom cushions came from Sierra Madre Collection and then trimmed slightly to fit.     https://sierramadrecollection....pad-speedster-p16460

I had a local upholstery guy that does some custom work finish my seats.  After sewing all the panels, adding foam, a few rivets and lots of contact glue the job was complete.  They are not perfect, but I am very pleased with the outcome and they are comfortable for at least a couple of hours.

What about Beard suspension seats ?

they were comfortable in my Dune buggy

@Alan Merklin posted:

Marshall your "upholstery guy" is genuinely full of crap. Speedster seats have been upholstered over fiberglass seats shells for decades and continue to be constructed this way to date, As I initially said and recommended to you, your Speedster needs to be stored indoors and not outdoors as you do 24 / 7.  By doing so, this is the majority of your overall issues.

BAM!

@Stan Galat posted:

Because you said:

Thousands of fiberglass speedster buckets have been successfully and beautifully upholstered using the methods your guy says are not viable. I'm "slumming" because I've been running something "NEVER designed to be upholstered" for over 20 years.

As far as a canvas cover being an interesting diversion - perhaps? I've never seen it on any pictures of old Porsche racers from the 50s or 60s, so I'm wondering how it can be a "real, old-school, canvas racing seat cover", but I'd love to see what you are talking about.

MORE BAM!

My Vintage Spyder seats are both glued and stapled together. They are 21 years old, and just fine. I even took them apart, installed carbon fiber seat heaters, and put them back together in 2016-2017. They're still in fine shape. other than some wear on the leather in a couple spots. My car is ALWAYS garaged.

I personally have NEVER seen a canvas covered seat, ever.

Marshall's upholstery guy sounds like a real douche. I've seen this before with upholstery guys. There are some really good ones out there, though.

What I think Leo was describing was a heavy canvas, perhaps padded, seat cover designed to be slipped over a racing shell seat and lashed tightly into place.  Removable and washable.  I'm sorry that some of you have never heard of this.  But that hardly makes it not correct.  But it seems feasible to me.  I thought that it might be worth some investigation by Erik, if he was so inclined.

Sounds like seats used in the French Citroen 2CV - mmm, plaid and comfy.

@Marshall posted:

What I think Leo was describing was a heavy canvas, perhaps padded, seat cover designed to be slipped over a racing shell seat and lashed tightly into place.  Removable and washable.  I'm sorry that some of you have never heard of this.  But that hardly makes it not correct.  But it seems feasible to me.  I thought that it might be worth some investigation by Erik, if he was so inclined.

I don't think that that was the rub Marshall. The upholstery guy calling the fiberglass shells junk and saying that that isn't the way a seat is upholstered etc etc is the rub. Since the very first replica was built and fiberglass seat shells were put into use the seats have pretty much been covered the same way. And there are A LOT of them out there and they're all holding up just fine. Maybe he was looking for a reason not to do the work on your seats.

@WOLFGANG posted:

Sounds like seats used in the French Citroen 2CV - mmm, plaid and comfy.

Wolfgang....I've just got to ask...and about six years ago I was advised not to ask, but now I will....WTF have you never built your Speedster ? 

Has anyone ever actually met Wolfgang?  A remarkably deep well of useful and gentlemanly advice based on years of experience.  Wolfgang.   Could he possibly be an AI program running on our server?  As plausible as global warming.  

Could it be Vince?

@Marshall posted:

Has anyone ever actually met Wolfgang?  A remarkably deep well of useful and gentlemanly advice based on years of experience.  Wolfgang.   Could he possibly be an AI program running on our server?  As plausible as global warming.  

You might be correct, except for your last sentence.

Robert M.
No,  I think he just doesn’t like replicas of any car. And probably the people who own them. A purist, I guess. But after he saw I had no pretense that I own a real Porsche, was forthright about it and a decent man, he decided to help.
He had me back after he’d pulled them apart some to assess why they were falling apart. He showed me what needed to be done before getting approval to proceed. No wood strips that Wolfgang mentioned. Lots of staples shot into the fiberglass bucket which didn’t hold and staples into neighboring fabric. “Guy tried to use staples rather hand stitch”. He installed several wood strips and tabs with PVC, said epoxy was unreliable, and apologized for the glue he’d have to use. $150 each. Said, “that should buy you several more years”.  My kinda guy.

@Marshall posted:

Has anyone ever actually met Wolfgang?  A remarkably deep well of useful and gentlemanly advice based on years of experience.  Wolfgang.   Could he possibly be an AI program running on our server?  As plausible as global warming.  

Quite a few of us have met @WOLFGANG , aka Greg.  He worked for the government, so the whole Speedster thing may have been a ploy to infiltrate our group to keep an eye on us.  Probably a good idea.

@Lane Anderson posted:

Quite a few of us have met @WOLFGANG , aka Greg.  He worked for the government, so the whole Speedster thing may have been a ploy to infiltrate or group to keep an eye on us.  Probably a good idea.

Scariest words ever spoken, “I’m with the government, and I’m here to help.”

So what is slumming ??.......Bruce

@Lane Anderson posted:

Quite a few of us have met @WOLFGANG , aka Greg.  He worked for the government, so the whole Speedster thing may have been a ploy to infiltrate our group to keep an eye on us.  Probably a good idea.

Let's keep in mind that Lane also works for/with the Government :~)

@aircooled posted:

So what is slumming ??.......Bruce

Slumming is when rich white kids go down to the seedy part of town and hang out with the po-folk.

As in, "I'll just be over here, happily hanging out with the po-folk with my shabby POS fiberglass seat shells, which were never designed to be upholstered."

Slumming... and sarcasm.

@Marshall posted:

Has anyone ever actually met Wolfgang?  A remarkably deep well of useful and gentlemanly advice based on years of experience.  Wolfgang.   Could he possibly be an AI program running on our server?  As plausible as global warming.  

I have met Wolfgang, but it was at night, in a wooded park, and he wouldn't show his face. He was wearing a black cape, a wide brimmed hat and was carrying a laptop.

I, too, have met Wolfgang, but it was at a few of the Carlisle gatherings, it was heavily overcast and raining heavily and he had ditched the black cape for a weather-proof Hoodie and looked a lot like this:

G*d dammit! You guys killed Wolfgang!

When I met Wolfgang in a pouring rain at 2:00AM at the end of a dark alley in Chinatown these two showed up and both of them said I was to turn the information over to him. I was confused, they argued, I slipped away unnoticed. Still not sure who Wolfgang really is.

@Robert M posted:

Still not sure who Wolfgang really is.

Just look for the guy with the shabby POS seat shells (in his pole barn, 75 miles from his condo).

Have you been to his pole barn or condo, Stan?  Those pictures could be from anywhere.  I'm thinking his name isn't even "Wolfgang".

Wolfgang(AKA Greg Seitz) does exist, he used to go to Carlisle for a few years, then flat-towed his almost-done Speedster to Florida, when he moved from Virginia. There, he built a "forever" storage facility(pole barn) for it to be interred in the mausoleum(pole barn).

@DannyP posted:

Wolfgang(AKA Greg Seitz) does exist, he used to go to Carlisle for a few years, then flat-towed his almost-done Speedster to Florida, when he moved from Virginia. There, he built a "forever" storage facility(pole barn) for it to be interred in the mausoleum(pole barn).

As previously mentioned somewhere, hopefully I'm named in Greg's Will, this way the speedster will get done ......eventually here in West Virginia ~