Seeking advice regarding one-of-a-kind 356a Replica

Welcome to the Madness!

That's a toughy. Registered as a 1957 Porsche is a big detraction for most buyers because of possible legalities.  What state are you in? USA?

Post some pics and you can probably get more info from members.

Oh, and what transmission/engine does it have?

-=theron

Matt, I think someone here was looking for an automatic awhile back.

i'd suggest you post an ad here in the classifieds section with plenty of details and photos.

I am located in PA, in the Philadelphia area. It's a VW full planetary automatic transmission (not auto-shift) fully rebuilt- modified converter. The engine is all new, fully blueprinted and balanced Scat Engineering designed and built 1641cc. Dual Solex 35mm carbs with electric chokes and electronic ignition.

Try placing your ad on SAMBA.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/

You can pay to put your ad on the main page or use the free section.

Look under 'classified' and the 'other VW/Porsche vehicles' section.

There are a lot of "mature" Speedster owners here on SOC that often mention bad knees and backs who would be potential buyers of your car.  I see you are in NE so of course not good time for locals to pay top dollar. Wait til Spring - or hope for a CA buyer.  Write up a thorough ad with pictures and post here on SOC. IM will list an owner's IM car for sale on their site - I assume for a commission.  Your car is unique and perhaps Carey at SE/Beck would do same thing.  He might even buy it back. Becks have more interior room than any other make - a big plus.

Not sure I like it being titled as a '57 Replica in PA - perhaps DrClock can comment on that.  In VA, they would look up Blue Book value of a 57 Speedster and yearly charge Personal Property tax on a $120k vehicle - ouch! Replica or Beck on title would probably be better. 

Hi Matt,

You may be reading your PA title incorrectly.  Some states have a separate box in which the category "replica" or similar term of art is mentioned.  You may want to read your PT title carefully, or call PA DMV for clarification.  You wouldn't want to register, own, or sell a replica as anything other than what it is.  I'm not suggesting that's your intent, just trying to help you avoid pitfalls.

My speedster is registered as a 1957 Porsche in Virginia. I went with what the title stated when I bought the car. It would have been a much bigger issue to change the the registration / title. Jim Kelly, above, hit on the important difference. I did check the replica box. I pay no personal property tax as it is registered as an antique vehicle. I paid a one time registration fee and it is registered for as long as I keep it. There are no annual inspection or registration fees. I pay $120./year insurance with StateFarm. I do know that things are different state by state.

Nice looking car.

This got me me looking at my PA title for my JPS Coupe which I very recently had titled here in Pa.  My car BECAUSE it has a VW pan was titled as a 1974 VW.   The Beck car which is not built on a VW platform would of course not be a VW by any definition.   I thought the Beck cars were titled as BECKS?   

On the Pa titles there is a area underlined with the words TITLE BRANDS listed under this heading there are 14 possible brands which could be applied to a car,  Such things as antique, classic, collectible vehicle and street rod as well as reconstructed, recovered theft etc.  No place does it say REPLICA.  (which I would think there should be a brand for replica.( Smarten up PA) 

They always check vin numbers when cars are registered or transferred in out of state and it wouldn't be a Porsche vin number. Perhaps the AGE of the car (or age of the Porsche it was registered as more accurately) was how it got  titled as a Porsche.  No records going back to 1957 so the title clerk just punted and let it pass? How did they arrive at a vin?  Has to be some number some place on the car.  Again I thought there was a plate on the car with Beck as the "make" and a number.  

This is a bit of a grey area in Pa.   My car was titled and registered using a pencil tracing of the vin number on the transmission tunnel.  No one at the DVM actually saw the car. If they had it may or may not have mattered because they probably wouldn't have had a clue as to what they were looking at.   The car also has no other number associated with it so if not a VW what would it be?    

Probably doesn't matter one way or the other as long as the buyer is informed of it's replica status and he handles that as needed.   Sure wouldn't want to get into one of those situations where the car was taxed as an authentic car.  Other then for tax purposes there probably is no concern, just as long as there is a title.

I wouldn't personally think the fact that the car is titled as a 57 Porsche would or should have any affect on its worth.  

CLEARLY EVERY STATE IS DIFFERENT ON THIS TITLE STUFF.   In Pa if the car came in already titled as a Porsche my suspicion is that it would pass into Pa as a Porsche.  Or it could if you could show them a number or number tracing which matched the number on the title from what ever state it came from.  I assume this because my car was titled as a VW doing the same thing and it clearly is NOT a VW. Interesting

In PA, it should have been titled as a Specially Constructed Vehicle. Yours was probably incorrectly titled as a VW if you gave them a VW VIN number and nothing else. Hopefully you have agreed value insurance, because a 74 VW is worth about $300 in their books.

It's a  grey area titling as a VW works in Pa but you need to find a shop that wil inspect annually as same. Pa has a process that certifies a Kit, Replica, Reconstructed it is called a MV 426B  enhanced inspection that requires silly stuff like windshield washers etc.

Yes my car is insured for it's full value thru Hagarty.   It will be inspected with out a problem at a shop I have used for twenty years.No problem there.    My thoughts are (and I am not suggesting that I am necessarily correct in my thinking) that it has a tag on it, it's registered and insured.  I am not going to worry further over it.   I would defer to Alan as the expert on this subject for the others in Pa.  He certainly has more experience with all of this.  Seems like getting the JPS to pass the rather strict requirements would be difficult at best because it certainly doesn't have windshield washers.   I guess that's not too big of a deal because if I am not mistaken the original VW's had a rather simple mechanism to accomplish that.  Air inflated plastic tank if I am not mistaken??   That's going back a couple years now.  

Far easier to add an electric pump driven windshield washer system than the old VW spare tire driven pressurized system.  There are ones with a flexible plastic reservoir bag or formed reservoir for under $25.  Here one for $10.99 + SH (Pep Boys ACI Universal Washer Pump Kit 199300):

Shoot that's easy enough.  

I don't see any way that a 57 Porsche (or one of our replicas) could be adequately insured for only $120/year.  Maybe a 57 VW could be, but not a 57 Porsche.  In any case, I would be on the phone to State Farm asking them what they would pay you if your car was totalled.

It has been discussed many many times, but I suspect that there are still quite a few replica owners on our list who are blissfully under insured and don't understand the difference between regular insurance, "stated value" insurance and "agreed value" insurance.

Troy, you CAN actually by an Agreed Value auto policy for 120.00 clams a year in some areas of the Country.  When I had my VS Widebody, I had it with Condon & Skelly(Metlife paper at the time) for 25K Agreed Value for under $200.00 a year.  Some classic car policies will allow you to insure the car as the same year of the VIN# as long as the application states what it actually is for example "1957 Porsche 356 Replica".  I am not starting a debate about  registration as we all know that is all over the board and varies State by State.      

I believe you Marty and I know you aren't looking for a debate, we are just discussing important topics.

I don't know anything about the insurance industry and I'm certainly not pretending to be some expert about it. I just don't see how an insurance company could afford to take that kind of risk.

Using your widebody policy as an example.  If they had to payoff your $25,000 claim, they would have to collect 125 years worth of $200/year premiums.  Or, to look at it another way, they would have to have 125 cars insured for 1 year to collect $25,000 in $200 premiums to break even on that single claim.  It just doesn't seem like the kind of risk they would be willing to take, but I guess it is.

I think the important thing here is that there are probably owners out there who have just added their Speedster replica (registered as a VW) to their main auto policy as a 60's something VW.  I'm concerned that they could potentially experience a large loss if their car was ever to be totaled or stolen.

Anyone who doesn't know the difference between an Agreed Value policy, a Stated Value policy and regular car insurance is potential under insured and needs to look into it.

I have a vintage motorhome and we get into this discussion about Agreed Value insurance as well.  You have to be VERY careful with the terms.    Very few companies offer agreed value on motorhomes and my suspicion that Troy is spot on probably many THINK they have it and do not.  Any coverage which does not state a DOLLAR AMOUNT clearly in the policy is not an agreed value policy.  How can it be?   My state farm agent assured me that my motorhome was covered completely but after some research I took the MH off my state farm insurance and went with an one of the companies that are known for ACTUALLY writing policies which state that the agreed value is in fact  X number of dollars.  (Blue Sky for the RV) and when it was time to insure this car I never considered anyone other then one of the known vintage and classic car/replica insurers.  Hagerty was my choice but there are others.    I wouldn't trust State Farm on this UNLESS they put a specific number clearly in the document and I'll bet they will not.  Another clue is the cost of the policy.   When you are getting numbers 1/2 of the typical then I'd be suspicious.   I think $200 a year is possible depending on the amount insured and the number of miles driven but I'd check it carefully.   My coverage with Hagarty is between 4 and 5 hundred a year for $34K and 5 thousand miles.    Just don't assume anything that isn't in writing.   

Troy, I did not mean debate with you.  Your thinking small, multiply 125,000 policies times $200.00 a year and the result is 25 million.  Claims payout on classic insurance is negligible & most classics see very little mileage.  Even though many of us drive quite a bit, we are just a little pimple as far as the industry goes.  It's a money maker for the insurance company.   

Also, if you are not using a VW VIN the rates are higher for Special Construction and Modified titled vehciles on Classic car insurance.  That same 25K car (midwest region) would now cost $300-$400 per year.     

Like I said, I don't know anything about the insurance industry.  You're probably right they make it up in volume.

I think the important thing here is like John said, "don't assume anything that isn't in writing."  If a policy doesn't specifically say "the agreed value is X dollars," it probably isn't an agreed value policy and should be looked into.

Now that makes me even more skeptical about the coverage because what's difference to the insurance company?   From the perspective of any insurance coverage it's risk and loss only.   They could care less about who built it our how it's titled it's just what are the chances of a loss and the dollars involved IF where would be a loss.  Maybe I am missing something or misunderstand.  My experience with agreed value on the motorhome was it had to be appraised by a certified appraiser (every three years) and it had to be insured for no more then the appraisal and that number was listed as the agreed value ON THE POLICY.   Hagerty has my car listed as a VW/ Porsche 356 Replica and again the agreed value of $34,000 is ON THE POLICY.    Don't expect any insurance company to do you one better then what they absolutely have to.    Read the fine print and if your satisfied with it great.   I don't trust 'em    

I pulled out my policy to double check and I do not pay $120, I pay $70.76 every six months. So I guess it went up a bit to about $140./year. The agreed upon value on the policy is $20,000. as I requested. My agent sent someone out to look at the car and sent the policy over for approval with the listed exceptions and endorsements. My StateFarm agent is a car guy and has a substantial vehicle collection. He covers my house, outbuildings, four cars, etc. and I have been with him for more that 25 years. As I stated in my previous post, I have antique tags so I have to go by the Virginia DMV restrictions for use. Thanks for your concern Troy, but I have already had that conversation with my agent.

Your fine Syl, State Farm does indeed offer an agreed value policy.  I guess the moral of the story is just to deal with a qualified agent,  good company and of course read your policy.  

John, Yes you are missing something.  The policy I mentioned a few post earlier has to be approved by underwriting with pictures of the outside, inside and engine bay.  You also need proof of purchase to substantiate the value or an appraisal.  With modern technology & websites today it's pretty easy for an underwriter to evaluate and confirm the price you're asking for to be "agreed on"

Agreed value and stated value are NOT the same NECESSARILY according to my reading.   The difference is depreciation.    My point like Troy's is not to argue this but CLEARLY each individual has to be absolutely certain he is getting what he is expecting.   Because your agent is a car guy or a friend or what ever means nothing in this.  

Again I am not an expert but google the question "is stated value the same as agreed value insurance"  Read what it says.   My interpretation is there is or very well could be a rather significant difference.   I'm not knocking state farm they've insured my regular cars and home for 50 years.  I am telling you that in Pa when I researched this I found some technicalities that made a BIG difference to me.  If not to you then so be it.  The terms agreed upon value and agreed value might even be different.    I think the kicker here is the depreciation.  Don't trust the agent to know.  And he's selling remember that.   Slap on the back and a big handshake and "who did you say you are" when the claim comes in.   Think it doesn't happen?

State Farm will not write agreed value for me.  Stated value maybe.  INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS.   

This is tricky and I believe insurance companies intend it to be.   If the number is on the policy and if it does not depreciating over time then OK.  Bet if you check you will see that the $20,000 figure is going to depreciate which I don't want on my collector car.    The terms and words used have to be very specific.    BE CAREFUL.  

If it's a bargain be skeptical.   I would suggest we not tell others what they should or should not do but provide them with information and let them determine what is best for them.  I have not made any categorical statements about who you should or should not buy insurance from.   I am suggesting only that you use the correct words when you shop.  Agreed value and stated value????   Better be sure everyone is on the same page in the dictionary of insurance terms.   Do not be surprised if you insurance agent doesn't know the difference.   

I've been through this with the motorhome and it took me a while to understand that what I think I was hearing and what was actually being stated were not the same.   

Get the terms correctly understood and get it in writing and hope that you never need it regardless.   

Finally good luck because this is not as simple as it should be.    

Unfortunately this is may not be good enough. Agents often don't know their business (especially this niche market)  and if you don't entirely understand what you are reading (and they clearly seem to make it so you can not) then you may be out of luck.   Boy's we're swimming with the sharks.   Good company (?)OK define that for me.   You have to be your own advocate.  Unfortunately the same applies to health insurance but we're not going there are we?   I'M NOT.  

Thanks for the advice John. 

Well played, Marty.  You have raised discretion to an art form.

I'll say he has.

But somebody needs to say it, so I guess I will.

John: Marty knows what he's talking about. He's done this with two different cars, and he's in the insurance business. He's an independent agent, and just told Sly the State Farm policy (he doesn't rep SF-- they have their own company agents) was fine. He's got nothing to gain by offering advise in his field of expertise, other than to be a nice guy. He IS a nice guy (I know him personally)-- and if he was my agent, I guarantee he'd advocate for me in the event of a claim.

You might want to give him a call for some advise, or perhaps take what he's offering here.

 I have no doubt Marty's a nice guy. I am too. Most of us have some area of superior knowledge.   I am challenged daily in my day job and no doubt each of you are as well.   It's an opportunity to educate and inform.    

This isn't a contest it's a discussion about car insurance.  There is no reason to take offense or for discretion either.    

When a product is being sold the buyer better be informed and that certainly applies to my field and insurance.  

Hey Marty, now I'm going to feel like a small pimple all day, maybe longer 

Me too and it's all Marty's fault.   Sorry if I spent a little too much time on the soap box yesterday.