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Shake, shakey shake......

execk2execk2
Last fall I changed my ball joint on the drivers side. Brought the upper torsion arm out and had it pressed in at the local garage. Ever since then it's been a little out of alignment so did the best I could.

I know, bring it to an alignment place....

The issue: I was trying to change the camber by eye because the car wanted to wander. So I got that dialed in pretty good. The problem now is when I hit a bump or certain speed the steering goes CRAZY to the point I need to steer off the road (30-40MPH) and stop the car.

I think I may have lowered the beam (adjust) and maybe the beam isn't high enough???? Would that mean that I am not using the torsion arms and riding on the springs? I seriously don't know why I would touch the adjusters but am thinking I may have done so last fall before it went to winter sleep for 5 months.

I am thinking that this may be the cause of the shake, shaky shake. As for the camber if you drive your car in reverse at 10-20MPH the steering should not be squirrely. My car right now when I reverse has a steering mind of its own.

Yes, as soon as the shake is taken care of it will get an alignment. Now what to tell the alignment shop. I doubt the 'puter has specs for 69 Beetle.

1957 Porsche(Speedster)

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execk2execk2
Last fall I changed my ball joint on the drivers side. Brought the upper torsion arm out and had it pressed in at the local garage. Ever since then it's been a little out of alignment so did the best I could.

I know, bring it to an alignment place....

The issue: I was trying to change the camber by eye because the car wanted to wander. So I got that dialed in pretty good. The problem now is when I hit a bump or certain speed the steering goes CRAZY to the point I need to steer off the road (30-40MPH) and stop the car.

I think I may have lowered the beam (adjust) and maybe the beam isn't high enough???? Would that mean that I am not using the torsion arms and riding on the springs? I seriously don't know why I would touch the adjusters but am thinking I may have done so last fall before it went to winter sleep for 5 months.

I am thinking that this may be the cause of the shake, shaky shake. As for the camber if you drive your car in reverse at 10-20MPH the steering should not be squirrely. My car right now when I reverse has a steering mind of its own.

Yes, as soon as the shake is taken care of it will get an alignment. Now what to tell the alignment shop. I doubt the 'puter has specs for 69 Beetle.
FM Former Member
Most alignment """"specialists""""" are not specialists. Most will balk if you tell them to align and the speck's aren't in your computer. IF this happens then tell him to set the machine up for any car then align to the spec's below.

1/8" toe in, that's 1/16the per tire for a total of 1/8 inch, try for about 4 to 5 degree's of caster (if the alignment shop doesn't know, you have to put shims between the lower axle tube and its mounting point) and 1 to 1 1/2 degrees of negative camber. The caster keeps the wheels going forward and add's feed back when (self centering) when you turn a corner, the toe in keeps the car going forward.

If any of these are out of whack they can cause the problems you're relating. Also, check your tie rod ends, If they're not level then that too can cause problems. You may need to buy some caster shims because the alignment shop probably won't have them.

Alan MerklinAlan MerklinDrclock - Elkins, West Virginia Supporting Member
Mike, Could be any number of things including a loose steeing box, pitman arm, tie rods, almost any suspension part...check everything carefully.
I may be a bit over the top here but some years back I drove what seemed to be a solid Beetle until I would hit a bump and like yours, the steering would go insane,turned out to be a rusted out frame head and I have seen this on older speedsters that were constructed using donor chassis . ~Alan
FM Former Member
First best rule check all of it.

Bad tie rod end are bad to do a 40s to 50s shake. If they are bad you should replace the dammper also because tie rod shake will distroy the damper pretty quick..

My basic frontend in the field line up works like this,

(1) toe in 1/16 in on the front center of the tires. that will show as a 1/8 difference front center to rear center on the front tires

(2) Caster is happest at 3 degrees out at the top . a 2 ft carpenders level touching the outside tire top center and hanging down will have a shy 1/4 gap at the bottom tire center and the verticle level bubble centered.

(3) Camber ? One set of shims on the bottom tube is standard on these cars with the beam frontend.

This is ,,by no means perfect ..But it will be pretty close..
FM Former Member
Barry, your number 2 describes positive camber, not caster. A definite no-no on these cars. Negative camber would be the level touching the bottom of the tire with the gap at the top! Stock specs are zero to about .5 degrees negative. Up to 1.5 degrees on a sporting car is generally acceptable.

Number 3 is about caster. And you are right, one set of shims will give you about the right amount. These cars are both lighter and shorter wheelbase than a stock Bug. Extra caster is manageable because of both these things. It is also needed for straight line stability. Caster cannot be measured with the wheels straight ahead. Caster is measured as the difference in camber readings when the wheels are turned about 25 degrees either way if I remember correctly. 3-6 degrees is acceptable. It is the angle the steering axis(a line through the ball joints) is laid back from vertical. It is the same as trail on a motorcycle.

You Speedster guys are lucky, you just install shims between the beam and the frame head(along with longer bolts!) Us Spyder guys can't do that, the beams are welded in place.
Lane AndersonLane AndersonMt. Pleasant, SC Supporting Member
Neither can us Beck Speedster guys, for the same reason. Caster is set by frame geometry and how level the car is riding. When Carey was doing the final stuff on my car I asked him to raise the rear a bit for driveway clearance. That really made the steering, um... wonky. I dropped the rear back to where Carey originally had it, and later raised the front a tad, and the difference in stability and response was phenomenal. It's amazing what a degree or two will do.
execk2execk2
Fiddled once again with the camber. I think it was my understanding of positive and negative. I always assumed that the top of the tires should be more in than the bottom. So adjusting accordingly.

Now I am SURE it is the opposite.... rides better, will need to get on the roads outside the neighborhood to be sure. Then it's alignment time.

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FM Former Member
Lesson on Camber adjustment:

Bought a 1974 Ford 3/4 ton pickup truck, the one with "twin I-beam" front axles. I had a tire wear problem that the dealer could not fix. Went to speciality shop. They applied their hydraulic ram on each front I-beam and BENT THE AXLES. No more tire problem, in fact, I drove that truck for 22 more years and it NEVER needed another front end alignment.

So, all you spyder guys, don't give up hope, just find someone with the right tools and know-how!
FM Former Member
Sorry I.m Bad to get things turned around when i type. But Im glad someone was there to correct me.. (Thanks)

So your straight level will touch the bottom center of the tire and the gap will be at the top while you tweek the upper ball joint adjustment.. Like I said even then it wont be perfect but it will allow you drive to a good shop to be dialed in.(With out hurting your tires much.)

David ,,I watched My dad do the same thing to a 73 Ford truck with the same problem . He also heated and quinced the I beams before he released the jack. To help them stay in shape.. It was just fine after that..and the tires lasted 60,000.

I sure miss that wealth of knowledge. I heard my mom talk about how my dad built a A model Ford from junk when they were sparking in 1950.. He knew a lot about the older stuff.. The only bad thing was about Grandpappy Hudson.. Gramps had a steel and made Moonshine when Pop was little.. In the 30s ,,I remmber several good stories about that as well..
FM Former Member
Mike, Negative camber is when the top of the tire is closer to the center of the car than the bottom of the tire. Negative camber is desired for better cornering but tends to wear the tire on its inside portion of the tread. But, when you enter a corner and have negative camber, the force created by the weight shift of the car tends to make the tire contact the road with all the tread as the weight shift is pushing on the bottom of the tire.

Negative camber is usually desired for a road worthy vehicle such as yours. Try for 1 to 1.5 degree's of Negative Camber as I stated above.
execk2execk2
I will take it out again today and see. Where I am now is that the thickest part of the eccentric is pointing more towards the outside of the car (like at 2 oclock) and after I took my spin around the hood it seemed better. Didn't go on the street (speed) yet. I think I am dialed in where I could go get an alignment.

The outer of the tire was wearing more.

But I learned something, that difference of a few degrees in camber can really f*ck it all up to the point where the steering wheel shakes like a S.O.B!

Yesterday also went through everything, all bolts, tie-rods (there is one I will need to change, the boot is torn up but it's solid), dampener seems OK, coupler is tight and good.

Also checked my tire pressure, upped it to 20 in the front and 28 in the back! 185-65-15's all round!

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