should be simple, thanks to VS, it's not

Moving the 1/4" thick bumper mounts to the inside (matching the drivers side) of the 1/4" frame rails moved it over 1/2" (never was good at 'rithmetic) so now it's only 3/4" off, I can live with that.

You could also move the driver's side mount to the outside and only be off by 1/4".   

Ha, thanks for the help James, but then I'd have another hole to fill and paint...

I'll just say the Germans must've had a few Diebels before assembling the bumper that day, back in '57...

I always start the beer drinking after work is done - not before. Actually prefer the beer drinking to actual work.

"I'll just say the Germans must've had a few Diebels before assembling the bumper that day, back in '57..."     That must have been "Hans und Fritz"  

Do you know the way to tell an original (steel) Pre-A (before 1957) from a 356 A (pre-1957)??

Over 80% of the Pre-A cars have the hood handle off-set about 1/4" right on the hood.

No one knows why.

Once that's pointed out for you, you look for it in every car..........  Not that it's obvious.

Will, where did you find those rubber mounts fitting between hood handle and the hood? Did Kirk have them or a Porsche parts supplier?  Thank you for any leads. 

I have them on my VS too.  Probably can order one from Kirk at Vintage.

Gordon Nichols posted:

"I'll just say the Germans must've had a few Diebels before assembling the bumper that day, back in '57..."     That must have been "Hans und Fritz"  

Do you know the way to tell an original (steel) Pre-A (before 1957) from a 356 A (pre-1957)??

Over 80% of the Pre-A cars have the hood handle off-set about 1/4" right on the hood.

No one knows why.

Once that's pointed out for you, you look for it in every car..........  Not that it's obvious.

BLASPHEMY!

The Sainted German Engineers would never have allowed such a thing.

If it's true, perhaps Her Doktor was sleeping off some schnapps while the engineers were busy at their slide-rules ironing out the final details of the unimprovable cooling shroud.

I'd blame the Austrians. Can't trust 'em-- all snuggled up to Italy down there.

I'll give Kirk a ring- thank you Jack

Michael B (aka bluespeedster SoCal) posted:

Will, where did you find those rubber mounts fitting between hood handle and the hood? Did Kirk have them or a Porsche parts supplier?  Thank you for any leads. 

Sierra Madre has them Mike:

http://www.sierramadrecollecti...356-356A-p19630.html

Klasse356 too $13.25

EXT1.1

Gasket, Hood Handle. 2 pieces. Fits 356A.

$13.25

If you are putting bumpers on then trim over them can't you re-locate the bumper mounts on the bumper rather than making new holes?  If you use the standard bumper trim piece and rubber insert that will hide any holes in the bumper itself.  No one is going to look at your car and measure the distance between bumper mounts to the body....

Frank, it came with bumpers and the bumpers have the aluminum/rubber trim, that's not the problem.

The mounts themselves, well, the passenger side specifically, was out of register by 1 1/4" in relationship to center of car and distance from the horn grills.

I'm adding bumper guards which need to be placed on the bumper in specific locations. Then a fellow nearby is going to make and fit full length overrider bars to the guards and bumpers.

From the overriders, behind the guards, there are 1" tubular braces that bolt to a stud which connects the guard and overrider (and brace). The braces enter the front apron and bolt to the bumper mount/undercarriage to...brace the guard/overrider assembly.

There's a lot of hardware and holes in a very limited amount of space and 1 1/4" variance will surely look amateurish, that's why I went to the trouble of cutting the discrepancy down to 3/4" and may take James' suggestion to heart and move the drivers side mount as well which would make them mounts only 1/4" out of place.

This all means some body-work which just seems ludicrous when it could've easily been done correctly at the "factory", that's why I pitched this fit here.

I'm laying the blame at the feet of Hans and Fritz! (and Diebels)

...oh, and my hood handle is 1/4" out of whack but I'm blaming that on Julio and Iglesias from Hawaiian Gardens...

Will Hesch posted:

...oh, and my hood handle is 1/4" out of whack but I'm blaming that on Julio and Iglesias from Hawaiian Gardens...

Julio and Iglesias?   That comment could easily be construed as racist Will and I doubt that the Hispanic SOC members will appreciate it. 

well, we've picked on the Germans, Austrians, Italians and now Hispanics

I'm German so I guess I could be offended by the Hans and Fritz thing, but I'm not.

Will, I'm not sure I'd blame Julio or Iglesias.

If they're told they have to knock out the trim on three cars before lunch, that's what happens.

I like to think of these anomalies as the character marks of, um... hand crafting.

Yeah, that's it - hand crafting.

It's like that warm and fuzzy connection with the build process you get when you open the trunk of your new car and find an empty bottle of Corona Light.

Will, not to worry as I take no offense to your remark...and, I don't think Troy was being totally serious.

I'm just glad your able to drive it now without leaving a train behind. 

I can't tell you how dissatisfied I am with VS, but no way near what you've experienced...unacceptable!

Oh, I'm totally serious alright.  Maybe what Will needs to do is speak with the mayor of Hawaiian Gardens and convince him to build a wall around the place to keep those horrible Hispanics out.  Yeah,  that's the solution build a wall!

     I'm getting the $450 back that I paid for the 3.88 transaxle that actually came with a 4.12-.89 in it so I'm happy.  I was informed Thursday I will be getting a check. It's been three years since I got the car so it's great that they are standing up for it without any argument.  I know for sure JPS wouldn't have done that.  I think the check will be for the full $450 but I'll find out when I get it. It is a shame it happened in the first place.  

     I blame this on the transaxle supplier.  It's hard for VS to know what is in the gearbox when they ship the car without an engine. My guy said the trans was full of junk parts, used synchros, old bearings, a worn out super diff and a bad mainshaft. If I was Kirk I would never use this guy again. You SoCal guys are lucky, you don't have to do things long distance. It makes all the difference in the world

Bill, my "people" come from Germany via Canada to Santa Fe where my German great grandpa married a Mexican woman and settled down on Agua Fria Street, the old Pecos Trail, right across the street runs the Pecos River. He was a shepherd by trade who became a carpenter who built the railing for the famous spiral staircase of the Loretto Chapel (it took the nuns up to the choir loft and his railing kept them from falling off after too much communion wine). He build two adobe homes next to each other on Agua Fria and finally a German inspired home which is now a protected building: The Hesch House.

My uncle and father who served together in WWII ala Saving Private Ryan when word of their mother dying arrived on the European front, spoke a pidgin language comprised of (butchered) English, German and Spanish. Uncle Reuben would often speak using that same pidgin dialect when telling stories to adults when children were present. We didn't understand most of it but loved the reactions from our parents to his stories and dramatic flair.

I am German, English, Scottish, Spanish, Mexican, Irish and Chickasaw Indian and hold no animosity toward any people group.

I was simply stating where, and by whom my car was built.

I would've said the same thing in a different way had they been Germans, Englishmen, Scottish, Spaniards, Irishmen or American Indians who built it.

I actually love my car, it's just the "hand-crafted" part (as Mitch calls it) that I'm still getting used to.

Then maybe it's time to give the bashing a rest and just drive it!

Wow.

Will, I measured mine and in the area you are talking about it's off only 1/4" plenty close enough. 

I think what may be unclear (at least to several posters) is the need for the brackets to be at least in the ballpark of symmetry for the overriders  and tall bumper guards to work.  Will did a very good job of explaining and providing a picture regarding why it's important.

He's trying to make his car look the way he'd like it to look. It's harder than it should be because one of the brackets is a freaking inch and a half off. He's got every right to point it out. It'd bug me too-- whether the sainted Germans/Austrians, the workers (who's ethnicity shall go unnoticed) at VS, or Henry Reisner himself did it. Doing it right takes an extra 30 seconds. On Will's car, at least-- in addition to getting an engine that shelled in the first week, he also got holes drilled in his body without a lot of concern regarding where they landed.

After all he's gone through, he's got every right to complain.

You're right as usual Stan, he does have every right to complain and he certainly has done that...ad nauseum.

You keep on complaining Will. I was thinking of putting the over rider bars on my car and would have never thought to measure that first, so your input was helpful. I think after all that you went through in that first week you've earned it. Besides you have really worked hard to make your car nice and posted good articles about it. Lastly, for now I think we still have free speech in this country, at least for some until the next election.

Someone pee'd in the Cheerios again...

Thank you Stan and Fcopo, I appreciate your support!

Troy, if I had a sterling experience like some have (mostly in the distant past) with Kirk, I would be happy to express my gratitude.

Unfortunately, like many VS purchasers (though most are silent on the topic), I've had problems with mine and the further I dig, the more I find.

This is why I will continue to be honest with my posts so that other prospective purchasers of cars will be forewarned and more knowledgable before they part with their hard-earned money.

Kathy and I saved for 3 years before purchasing ours and it left us stranded twice on a simple 200 mile drive home from the factory.

Had I known a year ago, what I've learned this year, I would've kept the $40K I've spent on this car (so far), added another $5K and happily driven a new Beck home from Illinois, confidently.

Bill, that would be me...never liked 'em...(cheerios)

@Troy, this is a top that I had to send (cost me another $35.00) back to VS. This is what they sent back...

Side curtain flaps don't reach the windshield and are stitched 4" to short.

Would you stay silent and accept this?

And the header bow warped on me.

Wow....

Things shrink like crazy in Hawaii, huh?  

No they shrunk in California and then where sent to me regardless, twice!

"Should Be Simple, Thanks To VS, It's Not"

Having owned approximately 32 VS Speedsters since 2007, I have had the opportunity to met many of the VS employees during that time.   They are hard working and conscientious workers. There are a couple of them who have not missed a day of work in over 20 years.   It was way out of line to suggest that their nationality had anything to do with your issues.

     Nationality has nothing to do with it. You brought that up.  Problems in a business begin and end with management.  Not the workers.  Personally I think Kirk and Horace are real nice guys and all of the guys I met that worked there were nice and they do work their butts off.  There are also a lot of things on my car that couldn't have been done any better.  I just think there is no final inspection of the product and in something as complicated as a complete vehicle you have to have someone check everything before it goes out.  When I got my car running the BRAKES barely worked.  I had to bleed them three times and adjust the rear drums up twice before it would stop decently.  How could anybody possibly excuse that?  Somebody could get hurt seriously or killed for God's sake.

     My last business was a high end restoration shop.  When we finished a car, every thing was checked to make sure it was working perfectly or it didn't leave and I was the one who checked it.  If it was a show car that the owner didn't want driven on the street, we ran it in the parking lot to at least see that the engine, transmission and brakes worked.  I was scared of getting sued.  

     The only reason I keep bringing this up is I think the guys that find this forum and look to people who now own the cars for advice should be made aware that some of the cars they buy will need a lot of sorting out.  Most of these people can't or won't want to do the work to make their car usable as a daily driver.  This is a safety issue.

Troy, ever heard of a molehill?

You're trying to make a mountain out of one...

How about we just move on?  

By the way, I don't think this is a discussion about nationality necessarily, but more, in this discussion, about ethnicity. I've lived long enough to have been both positively and negatively impressed with the workmanship of people of most every race as I suspect most of us on this site have.

I am guilty of having stereotyped both the good and the bad.......

I try to avoid it, but sometimes I slip up, or am misunderstood. I expect the perfect person to judge me and the rest to kindly avoid pillorying me.

Back to our regularly scheduled bickering about phoney Porsches.......

Fpcopo VS posted:

    " Nationality has nothing to do with it. You brought that up.  Problems in a business begin and end with management."

" I just think there is no final inspection of the product and in something as complicated as a complete vehicle you have to have someone check everything before it goes out..."

  "My last business was a high end restoration shop.  When we finished a car, every thing was checked to make sure it was working perfectly or it didn't leave and I was the one who checked it..."

These are the issues that come up, time and again, that could be easily remedied. If not by the manufacturer then by an enterprising individual that lived locally, who could take each completed car and put it through a thorough inspection and repair/replace what was needed or return it to the builder for necessary repairs. This person could also put a few miles on the car before it was sent to the new owner. We need a replica owner's advocate, people!

Will Hesch posted:

Troy, ever heard of a molehill?

You're trying to make a mountain out of one...

I think not Will.  Just calling you out over your inappropriate "Julio and Iglesias" comment.  You could have easily said, "yeah, that wasn't cool" and it would have been over.