Should I take him to court?

Since I got my brand new engine from the shop eight months ago, it came with plenty of problems too. First of all,the main seal was leaking since day one.So I took the car back to the shop. He told me that he fixed the problem but he didn't. It took 3 times before the job was done correctly.
Summer time came and I thought I will drive my car to OK to meet with a couple of members there. Before I did that, I ordered the GB dip stick and gave it a try.
The light was flickering after 20min of driving. I double checked timing,valve adjustment,points and all that comes with it. Still had the same problem.
I said to myself, is time for a compression test. Cyl #1,#2 had 50psi.Cyl #3,#4 100psi. This is CRAZY, the engine has only 2500 miles.
So last weekend I took the engine apart. Whoever cut the heads, did a really BAD job. No wonder the compression is low. There are (2)holes in each combustion chamber.I will try to post pictures. I am at work now.The holes are so big that I can see thru.

What is my next step? I really want my money back but I don't think that will happen.Should I take him to court?
Need your advice.
Thanks in advance.

There you go. Somebody must be very proud of their work.

Lambros, I can empathize with you, but I'd be the last guy in a position to offer advice.
I'd say send 'em here for fixing, but you wouldn't get your stuff back until 2035.

Did you have those heads cut at a machine shop or were the ordered from one of the usual suspects?

The seal is really at the ridge where the barrel meets the head, the rim more for support so those cuts would have much to do with your compression. Regardless, the compression ought to be 140 or more on a new motor. Was there any indication that the barrels were lapped to the heads or any sealant (like that Harley Davidson smuft shit) used anywhere? Signs of shuffling or any barrel to head movement? Did you check the torque before removing the head bolts? Were the rings staggered? Etc,. etc.?

Don't sue, it'll cost you time and money, file in small claims court. Easier, it might motivate the builder to make it right before the court date, AND it's public record, so you can tell EVERYONE or even post flyers legally around his shop/neighborhood. The bad press or coffee-shop-talk might motivate him to replace the heads at least.

Where is this shop located?

Obviously, before any action at all, you need to have a sit-down with him in person, always do everything face-to-face. Bring the engine pieces in to him and try to get a dialogue started, with him AND his builder/crew/whomever, no body wants a bad rep and trouble makes running a business that much harder. You may be able to resolve everything with a show-and-tell session where he can see the problems first hand and make excuses, explainations or restitution.

Best of luck ! ! ! !

TC

Depends, right is right, but remember even if someone has screwed you over, you have to seriously evaluate if the 5 hours of your time and a day off and the cost of filing is worth the potential return.

I would first do the show and tell, and let him tell you what they should do to resolve this problem. It is many times better then you would have got anyway.

Lambros -

Take those heads and whatever inferior work they may have done back to the shop (owner) and ask if they would accept that kind of workmanship on their persona cars!

After you try the reasonable talk-Small claims is really your only
leverage. I'm not saying you'll "get anything" out of it but he has to show and take a day or more to go to court. Hopefully he'll weight
his time vs money and do whats right. good luck!

Best to have a calm chat with the engine builder, perhaps you can come to an agreement.
Should you go to Small Claims Court,(usually under a $1000) be sure to have an expert witness in the field of VW motors present, as anything other than that is here say.
A written statement from an "expert mechanic" that does not appear in court cannot be used as the other party has the right to cross examine.

After all my suspicions were right Lambros....I knew there was a problem with the heads after you gave me those compression readings. You can always replace them with a set of CNC ported CB 044's. My heads are already done (he's doing the intake manifolds now); Jjr and I will remove the engine from the car in a few minutes and will get everything installed on the engine on Saturday, including starting and adjusting the motor out on a stand before reinstalling in the car. Good luck on your case; maybe you can get the new set of heads free from the deal.

Lambros, sorry to hear about the crap job. Not sure where you took your car, but here is another shop I found in KS.

http://www.vwsplace.com/

Justin, thank you, and of course thanks to everybody.
I just came back from the shop. The mechanic told me that this is normal and no air escapes through those holes because they are covered by cylinder lips?. He even used a cylinder to show me. Then he put water on top of the valves to see if they were leaking,but nothing,not a drop.
His guess was the heads weren't torqued enough. Should I try to put the engine back together and see what will happen?

the shop is correct, the cylinders seal at the top where there should be a copper gasket also. You didn't mention a copper gasket. Was there one? If there is a problem with the heads it may be the cylinder bore was opened up too large, it should be only very slightly over 94mm.

copper? I don't have no stinkin copper.

Jim, I didn't see a copper gasket.

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=125 this is from CB Performance site..... I am a few thousand miles from my library at the moment, so don't know what other options may exist, but given the symptoms described, I am thinking the engine got built with no head gasket, which can cause serious compression problems unless the cylinders are a perfect flat fit against the head seating surface, and they usually are not. I have only put together a few engines but the "gaskets" are in my thinking money well spent...but you have to also consider the deck height, or you may end up with a low compression ratio.....I guess many VW engines get built without these gaskets, but they might be a much cheaper solution than new heads.

"Copperhead Cylinder Head Gaskets help eliminate the continual problem of combustion leakage between the barrels and the cylinder head. When installed on a fresh set of heads, resurfacing of the cylinder head is never required due to the durability and temperature resistance (2300 degrees F) of the copper alloy gaskets.

The use of Copperhead Cylinder Head Gaskets allows the engine builder to set engine deck height at zero. The thickness of the Copperhead Gaskets provides the actual piston to cylinder head clearance. Engines that have been set up to run with zero deck height produce more power because the combustion energy of first ignition is contained within the combustion chamber.

The containment of the heat and pressure of first ignition within the combustion chamber reduces the pressure shock on the walls of cast iron cylinders. This factor helps reduce cylinder cracking and splitting which is prevalent in high compression VW engines. Copperhead Cylinder Head Gaskets are available in sizes to fit 90.5mm, 92mm and 94mm barrels. You can choose from two thickness', 0.040" and 0.060"."

Jim,

Sweet tip on those copper gaskets.

Thanks ! ! ! !

I always use valve grinding compound to "lap" the barrels into the heads just a smidge to help the seal, but THOSE are terrific.

Very cool.

Oh, Lambros. Make double sure that the ring gaps are staggered when you put the engine back together.

That is a big 10-4 Jim.
TC thank you too.

Sorry guys, I disagree totally. Not to run off with this thread but..
Copper head gaskets are used to alter deck height or to mask an ugly
engine build/part qualtiy. I'm sorry for being so cynical but the above quote is marketing. I've never copied and pasted a quote before
but if it lends Validity......................................... Jake has said................ "No gasket at all just like the VW Bulletin from the 80s recommends....

Using ANY gasket adds yet another expansion (and differing) rate to the engine. You already have a case, head stud, cylinder and cylinder head all growing at different rates all of which can yield a compression leak if given the chance... Adding a 5th expansion rate with the use of copper causes even more issues"

Soo many opinions.

I'm actually installing some Scat ones with my new heads to lower the compression ratio for cooler running temperatures and to be able to use regular gas. The guy who's doing my heads and who has built air-cooled VW engines for many years (including very high-end racing ones) recommended them. In my case they seem like a good alternative since we're not removing the cylinders; otherwise shims under the cylinders would be a good alternative too.

Pat (CB Performance) used them on my wedgeport heads when he built my KILLER 2275. No head leaks there. I'd replace them if I ever have to pull the heads.

You don't need to replace the copper seals, Dale; just heat them up until they're red hot; let them cool and they're ready for use again.

One ring to rule them all,
One ring to bind them...

Hang on, wrong copper ring in the wrong red hot fire. Where's Frodo with the flux capacitor when you need him?


--- Thread hijack end ---

Ricardo, My wife won't let me use the oven for car parts. She got pretty pissed when I used the dishwasher. So, it is no heating copper rings for me. I'll spend the few bucks and get them from CB.

You can also use acetylene...

Not me.

Actually, here is how I see it, right or wrong. You (anyone) removes the head from an engine and finds the copper gasket (or not) sealing or shimming the head/cylinder interface. The copper gasket has been used, slightly compressed during the torqueing of the head and it may not be the same thickness as it was at the time of install. Hey, it may not matter, I don't know, I am not a "professional", only a home garage guy. You (anyone) can heat the gasket up, annealing it to the correct softness, but you don't get the thickness back.

It is not worth it to me to save 25 bucks on a xxxx.xx buck engine by reusing the copper gasket/shim.

For what it's worth, I agree with Dale. Shims are cheap and plentiful, and the tolerance specifications are intended to allow expansion and contraction from operating to garage temperatures. If the book wants a .010 shim to bridge 'Gap X,' it really wants a new shim.
The metals these engines are made of are white alloys, and therefore more prone to variances than the big, chunked-out iron jobs from Detroit. I don't remember ever using a micrometer on my old Bonneville.
In the Porsche world, which we all know is not too far removed from what we're playing with, .004" can bind up a piston. That's less than half the thickness of a hair, but when the engine's warmed up to its operating temperature the tolerances get even more finite.
If you're not reading the specification sheets for whatever combination you're using, you're setting yourself up for a whole lot of insidious little evils down the road.
I really didn't know squat a couple years ago, but I've been learning at an accelerated rate about how and why these things work and behave like they do, and filling gaps with exactly what's called for really is a key ingredient to making them function well for a long time.
Gene Berg reportedly once said, "An engine is like a really nice apple pie. You can gobble it up all at once, or you can enjoy it over a really long time. I like to savor mine when I have it."

(My two cents as an observant rookie. And Dale, what in the heck does that license plate mean?)

Cory, let me tell you a little story....

A long time ago when I decided to legally register my IM, I tried to think of something appropriate and not too easy to figure out. I had the brain storm that IM PZTR would work. The IM is for Intermeccancia (at least the replica guys would get it), the space was to segregate that two letters, and then when taken as one word, I thought the brighter folks would get IMPOSTER ! HOW BRILLIANT of me!

Well, I was the only one that got it. 99% of the people that asked "What does you plate mean (say)?" They all thought it was the equivilent of I AM PISSTER. Gee I out thought myself on that one.

Well I turned that dumb ass plate in and I now have this one:

Brilliant! -- both the initial take AND the fix!
Beats the pantzzz off FA356UX, which I've been kicking around.

I WANT THAT CAR!!

Cory, My very good pal, Terry Nuckels is a Faux Painter and his plate reads FAUXSTR. Your thinking on this is great.

So Lambros; how's your deal going? These are the copper gaskets everyone was talking about; just installed a set of Scat .060" for 94 mm barrels along with my new ported CB 044 heads.

Hey Dale, I got it! Guess that means I'm a nobody...

Cory, go with FAUX JOB.

Nobody #2 checking in. Dale, your old plate made perfect sense to me. I guess IM not a DMOLFRT after all.

("Well, I was the only one that got it..." from dale's post above)

Your Honors, let me rephrase my answer, I think that very few folks got it. I am not aware more than a couple that got it with out hints, although there are some brilliant people that had no problem figuring out the combination of letters in my California Personal License Plate on my totally legally registered Intermeccanica Speedster.

And John, I know you are not DM, the Ol'FRT IM PRTY SUR OF

Cory, my brutha!

Add to your list of license consideration;

UNREAL1
356WTF
MOCK 1
356FAX (facsimile)
AREA 51

Hey Lambros -

Any progress or updates on your engine - hopefully you can get that bad-boy back on the road ASAP! BTW - have you raced your kart lately?

Peace - Out!

My fake plate says 56 356A

The idea was that right above the plate it says Porsche, so in theory anyone who wanted to know what it is could see, it is a Porsche 56 356A

It didn't work, people still ask all of the time, I'm used to it now, and I don't bother saying it is a replica. Otherwise I have to go through the whole "what is a replica thing?"

Dale, is your exhaust different then it used to be? It looks different in that picture for some reason....bigger?

Steven -

I know what you mean - it's the same here!

Oh well!