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ElectraMeccanica  started the Solo production in China then parted ways with that Chinese company somewhere during the pandemic.  Also all Solo's were suddenly recalled for what they claim was unfixable soft ware issue ( I'm thing something way more serious)  They also had the Tofino electric sports car on the drawing board and EM claiming some 41,000 orders but is now also a dead issue.

Today,  I came across this article .....This Chinese car is a bit similar to the ElectraMeccanica  Tofino electric roadster.

MG Cyberster

https://carnewschina.com/2023/...qIN-ZSkEcfjf_QO4sm5A

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Toffino

https://electrek.co/guides/electra-meccanica-tofino/

Last edited by Alan Merklin
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@WNGD posted:

Miata sales will plummet if that comes here

Aside from how they look, they don't seem to be comparable... but what do I know?

MX5s are so much more than "cute", and their reputation as a sorority-girl car (similar to how people once looked at Boxsters) was never earned and long ago left behind. Their light weight and razor-sharp steering make them driver's cars. Everywhere you touch an MX5, it just feels "right". They're a joy to drive at pace.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't imagine that this car is even playing the same game.

@Stan Galat posted:

Aside from how they look, they don't seem to be comparable... but what do I know?

MX5s are so much more than "cute", and their reputation as a sorority-girl car (similar to how people once looked at Boxsters) was never earned and long ago left behind. Their light weight and razor-sharp steering make them driver's cars. Everywhere you touch an MX5, it just feels "right". They're a joy to drive at pace.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't imagine that this car is even playing the same game.

I guess we'll have to wait and see but I think your anti-electric bias is showing

A small, good looking, relatively inexpensive and fast, convertible 500 mile range Miata (MX-5) competitor will sell like crazy. And don't kid yourself, this is one and designed to be.

@WNGD posted:

I guess we'll have to wait and see but I think your anti-electric bias is showing

A small, good looking, relatively inexpensive and fast, convertible 500 mile range Miata (MX-5) competitor will sell like crazy. And don't kid yourself, this is one and designed to be.

500 km not miles, and it's claimed - not proven (this is China we're talking about here).

... and yes, perhaps my skepticism regarding BEVs as planet saving miracle machines is showing.

@Stan Galat posted:

500 km not miles, and it's claimed - not proven (this is China we're talking about here).

... and yes, perhaps my skepticism regarding BEVs as planet saving miracle machines is showing.

I actually hadn't read the claimed range, was just giving an example. Up here, the damned Teslas are everywhere, literally the most numerous brand that I see unless you lump all SUV's together. A cheap (sub 40K) reliable convertible "Tesla" would sell out.

@dlearl476 posted:

I’m with you. So are most of the Cobra replica guys I’ve talked to.  

Those dumbasses are Exhibit A. “These had 427s back in the day and were uncontrollable! More is more! I’mma put a 572 in mine! 800 hp baby!!”

“Oh yeah? Well yer a little ***** then because MINE’s gonna have a 684 wit twin terbos! 1485 hp at the wheels’ll shut your chiggin ass down!”

And so on.

Nobody "needs" 800 hp, but then nobody "needs" a clown car either.

A replica can be built to really fly through tight, technical mountain road, but that's not how the majority of owners spec or use them. We tend to use them like a Dentist's wife uses her 992 Carrera S cabriolet - to run to the seafood shop to buy crab legs for tonight's dinner, to be seen.

Given how many of our members cycle out of Speedsters and Spyders and into Boxsters and MX5s and BMWs, there are (obviously) no small number of us who come to the point of no longer being able to justify the sacrifices we're called to make for... what? Style? A vibe?

We seem to regard them as fashion accessories - shoes from the department store. Nice... but not as desirable as Jimmy Choo's.

Almost none of us love them for their purity - we lard them up with all manner of gewgaws. It's certainly not for handling or power.

Similar to this discussion regarding if a BEV is a suitable replacement for an MX5 (and it bewilders me that there seems to be a consensus that it is), we display by our actions that most of us think that there are suitable (better?) replacements for our plastic fantastics.

What the Cobra guys do actually makes more sense from a "you can't buy this sort of thing anywhere else" standpoint, because you can't.

The fact is that the overwhelming majority of them use them about like the overwhelming majority of us use our cars - as garage art we occasionally buff up and trailer over to the local C&C. Why would anybody care that it's "too much"?

I certainly don't.

Last edited by Stan Galat

The phenomenon I’ve noticed more and more: what most guys *think* they want turns out to be *not* what they actually want, obligating them to either

1. sell

2. settle or

3. iterate. Endlessly iterate.

This appears to be the norm. The Human Condition. And I think it speaks in complicated ways to the primacy of “personal choice” that undergirds our political narrative.  

1.  I don't ever want an electric car.  A car has to make noise.

2.  I don't like the hallowed MG name being stuck on some pos out of China.  I've been an aficionado of the brand for too many years to ever accept this.

3.  I like my Speedster for its handling, speed, and power, but I won't track it.   Hence, the purchase of an older Boxster for that purpose.

4. I like older Miatas.

That's me.

Last edited by Bob: IM S6

OK.

I will admit to owning an electric golf cart like conveyance.

We bought it in the spring to help a dying client...really.

I hate the thing. It was nearly $19k when new a couple of years ago. I didn't pay anywhere near that for it with less than 100 hours on it.

It is street legal(to a point) requires licensing and insurance just like a real car. Seatbelts, windshield and wipers and lights up like the Fourth of July.

It accelerates very quickly to just over 25 mph. becoming  squirrely north of about 20mph.It is top heavy, scary to try and turn at speed. I have no desire to panic stop it.

It takes up valuable garage space because it has to be plugged in. And then the available power bleeds off pretty quickly as it is driven. I don't know what the range is, but I'm pretty certain it is less than a similar gas powered vehicle would be.

And, I can only drive it within our neighborhood because all the surrounding streets and roads have speed limits above the legal limit for this glorified toaster.

I do not feel like I am saving the planet, but driving an inherently unsafe and limited performance appliance.

It will be gone soon.

Last edited by Panhandle Bob

And this pearl clutching, girly-boy loves his EV (ok, his wife's EV). So much that he sold the one they owned for 7 years and bought another one with a slightly larger battery pack a few years ago.

Different strokes.

If I lived in a place where I almost never really had to worry about driving far enough to get stranded or a change in the weather having an impact on available range (I have no idea how much energy heat would use, but I'm told it is a factor), I get it.  Where we live there'd be a little more planning involved- especially during the winter months.  I'm not saying it can't be done- the Vancouver/Lower Mainland area is filled with E-cars.  With the state of the technology at the moment it's just not practical for all.

I’m late to the party like usual. Ordered an $83k Mercedes GLE. Gave my wife crap about her 4000 sq foot house and the size of her carbon footprint. And maybe she should think about her new grand daughter.  She woke up the next day and told me she was getting a Tesla and downsizing. We live in a 2200 sq foot beach bungalow a few steps from the ocean and my wife picked up her new Tesla Y this last weekend. We love it. Oh. I originally signed a contract to pay $60k after taxes and tags. A few months later Tesla sent me an email saying my car after taxes and tags would be $54k. I guess the twitter thing didn’t work out so great for Musk. But my point is would Mercedes or Porsche or Ford or any car company drop the price of your car after you had already signed a contract. Hard to not be impressed. 0-60 in 4 seconds. 330 mile range.

So since we're back to BEVs...

The Rivien plant is right up (25 mi.) the road on the west side of Normal, IL The local job market has been really, really strong since Rivien bought and began retrofitting the plant from the Mitsubishi days. Once they began hiring, everybody without a toehold on the economic ladder had no excuse - $30/hr and benefits just to walk in the door and sign up. I'm in hot and heavy love with Rivien and what they've done for the local economy.

Accordingly, we're littered with them on the roads. My buddy Bob Garrett texted me one day at about noon that he'd seen his first one in the Panhandle of Florida. I'd seen at least 4 on the drive between Morton and Normal where I was working.

We've got a lot of Teslas as well - Model 3s mostly, but plenty of  Ss (as status symbols), so I'd say that even though we're in Flyover, USA - we've got a pretty fair representation of BEVs.

I've got zero beef with people commuting with them and liking them as a machine. It works for some people (mostly those who work from home or have a fixed commute and are using the vehicle as a second or third car). It would work fabulously if I were Mike Pickett on Maui and I had an ICE Speedster for fun.

My beef is that I use more than half the vehicles I own and feed as mules. I own, maintain, and operate 3 work trucks currently (although we're looking for number 4). I moved from full-sized Ram Promasters to much smaller Ford Transit Connects last year. We're driving these trucks between 100 and 300 miles on an average day, but we're always on call. One day two weeks ago, I drove about 250 miles, went home, went to bed, and had an emergency call that took me 50 miles away. I returned home at 5:00 AM, got a couple of hours of sleep and was back in the truck at 9. The next day was another 200 mi. That's 550 mi. pretty much all strung together, without sufficient time to recharge anything at home between the beginning of day 1 and the end of day 2.

It just won't work for me, which is no problem.

... except that Ford will no longer make the Transit Connect after the ‘23 model year, and Ford shut off ordering in March of this year. No problem, we'll buy a Mercedes Metris. Ditto that. Ram Promaster City? Also dead after '23. Nissan NV200? NLA.

I can buy a F150 Lightning for $100k, but it won't do the job I have for it. My '18 F150 Ecoboost is the tow vehicle, and both the Rivien and the Lightning have a less than 100 mi real-world tow range. Nobody tows for less than 50 miles out and 50 miles back.

I was promised (by the usual apologists) that I'd be able to buy an ICE for as long as I wanted. I still want to but I can't. I've been reduced to trolling FB Marketplace looking at 8 year old Transit Connects with 100 k mi. to buy for about what I paid for a new one in '15. They know what they have and what I can't get.

As far as a sportscar? Maybe the future Porsches will change my mind, but C&D didn't include any BEVs in their Lightning Lap annual lap-time shootout again this year because no BEV could do a whole lap at Virginia International Raceway without cutting power. Street stuff? I'll have to see somebody flinging their BEV through the twisities all day at the TdS before I'll believe. Travel? In '19 Joe Fortino and I did the run from the west Suburbs in Chicago to Carlisle in one shot. That's about 10-1/2 hrs and 700 mi +/-. I'm not seeing that being an option with the MG e-car.

I just can't get all hot and bothered about the latest BEV supercar or minicar or what have you. Other people can - and that's cool for them. They're free to do whatever they want.

We're leaving for a family reunion in Branson, MO in the morning. It's going to be hot (as it is in July in the Midwest), which would reduce the range of a BEV to well under the total one-way for the trip. We're hauling food and fun for 4 days, as well as a couple of grandsons in the limo (to keep miles off the minivan I won't be able to replace after a couple of years from now). I'd welcome a chance to drive a more economical ICE car, but everybody (besides Toyota) stopped putting any effort at all into developing anything further and their plants are being dedicated for the BEVs that aren't exactly flying out the front door.

BEVs are fine. They're not for me.

Last edited by Stan Galat

Stan. You are right. EVs just won’t work for some folks. My wife and I have always owned 3 cars besides the kit car(s).  I will never get rid of my 2015 Mercedes ML Bluetec. Wouldn’t think about towing my Spyder with an EV. I’d be stopping every 100 miles. But we live 150 miles away from our 2nd home in Charlottesville where I’ve got another charger installed. The Tesla just becomes easy. No stopping for gas. No scheduled maintenance. It drives itself on the highway. No key. Your phone is the key. Cameras everywhere so it sees all the idiots around you and reacts to their stupidity. And keeps a permanent video record. There just weren’t enough reasons at least for me not to get one. But I’m not giving up my diesel tow vehicle and I’m not giving up my ICE clown car.

I'm good with all of that except the "drives itself" part. Please have a human operating your car.

Ford dropped the vans I want because they didn't sell well enough after they made them almost impossible to buy. I ordered 2 on the day before they cut off orders in April of '22. Ford delivered one van in November, but didn't build the second one because it was a "dealer allocation" or some such. I could have reordered during the even shorter window for the '23 model year, but the (unchanged) trucks were $8000 more, and I had sticker shock.

Ford took away all engine options for '22 (and really for everything after '19) by only offering the (unboosted and really underpowered) 2.0, rather than the much more usable 2.5 or the even better yet 1.6L eco-boost, so the trucks weren't as good as the '15 I bought for $25k out the door.

Enterprising entrepreneurs make it possible to buy a '23 on cars.com with a couple hundred miles... for $45k.

I miss the olden days when I had actual choices.

In other news, another cargo ship transporting 3K cars from Bremerhaven, Germany has caught fire just off the coast of the Netherlands. One crew member has died and all of the rest have been taken off of the ship. Fire crews are trying in vain to put out the fire and keep the ship from sinking. The ship is near an ecologically fragile area where migratory birds nest and officials fear it would cause an ecological disaster.

https://youtu.be/kr0uj5fChLA

The ship had 2800 cars on board, bound for Japan.

Twenty five of those cars were EVs, and apparently, that is where the fire began.

Forget forest fires; the next issue is going to be electric vehicles combusting, and yet we are told EVs will save the environment.  Lithium batteries are dangerous, and the cumulative effect of them (production, use, disposal) over the next decade could be horrendous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ingonWithShipping%3F

Last edited by Bob: IM S6
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