Sluggish and popping

Of course with Carlisle being a week away my speedster (that has been running better than ever lately) has developed a popping on decel and hesitation/sluggishness with early acceleration.
It started late today on my way home- it was spitting pretty good all the way across throttle and popping on decel.
I've taken the idle jets out and blown them with air and I cleaned up the cap and rotor. Still running like crap.
Monday the engine goes back in the 911 and I have rebuild kits and a cap and rotor ready for the speedster but was waiting to do a tune up until I had my 911 back. I figured it would take a few days to sort out the "what evers" that will come up from the top end on the 911 and didn't want to touch the speedster before Carlisle because it had been running so well.
Now I'm gettin a little worried I may not have either car to go to Carlisle.
Any suggestions?

Dizzy loose? Popping is a lean condition.

Check the carb linkage..., is it loose?
Did you just get a tank of gas and did this start soon after?
Scrape the carbon buildup off the copper electrodes in you distribor cap, also on the end of the rotor..., this is assuming you have standard distrib.
Also take the air cleaners off and look at the ceiling of each for soot from the flame signature..., pooping anotherwords. This will help determine which set of carbs it is.



Give me more info and I'll bore you with more info.

David

Mickey, since your Speedster lives outdoors, check the connections where the wires meet the contacts on the OUTSIDE of that dizzy cap.
Look for corrosion and clean with a wire brush, then hit all of them with a dollop of dielectric grease. I use a bronze brush from my 9mm pistol-cleaning kit for the inside clips on the plug wires.
Plan B is to check the exhaust bolts. Look for black soot around all four ports; if you have a leak down there, it'll show on the pipe.

Intake manifold gaskets.

At the bottom at the heads.

Mickey, sometimes I have to blow the passages that the idle jets/ volume screws work through. I take out the jets and the needlevalve screws and shoot a little air through with the passage open . Good luck.

Gordon......I've never seen updraft carbs on a VW engine......Where did you get yours???

.... ;-)

Thanks guys. I'm gonna go out and take another look in a bit. I just finished breathing into a paper bag for a few minutes- I was painting my wheels on the driver side today so I had the car jacked on that side for a few hours. I was pulling it out of the garage and it started blowing blue smoke! I took it around the block hoping it was just oil that seaped into the cylinders from being tipped all day.
I'm going to clean the contacts in the dizzy and go to work AND keep my fingers crossed.


The unsettling part of all this is things are eerily similar to the week before carlise last year. To remind you - my car was running rough, blue smoke, complete engine teardown for new p&c's. :( like I said, fingers are crossed.

No more blue smoke, thank God! Must just have been some oil from the car the car being tipped to one side for a bit.
The sluggishness is still there. I did a nice clean up on the contacts inside the dis cap, checked the outside wire connections for any corrosion (nice and clean) and the spark plug connections, linkage seems good and synched, and as mentioned cleaned out the idle jets. Only got one pop on the way to work (4 miles) at steady higher rpm (4200). It feels like it's either fuel starvation or lack of spark. There is a pretty strong fuel smell like it's running rich at idle.
The car can rev nice and strong sitting but once under load its a dog. I'm stumped.

Mine was a fuel pump and filters....Had similar problems

Richard

Mickey , How old are your ignition wires?

Bad news. More blue smoke when I left last night and again this morning. It clears after a bit but it's not good. The car is running pretty bad. I'm not a wrench but I know blue smoke means oil and burning oil is bad. My car has never burned oil since I put in the new engine, hell it hasn;t even dripped oil. Something is wrong.

I feel like I'm gonna puke. Some of you may recall that I had Pat build me an engine in 2008. The engine went in late summer of 08 and I spent the better part of the winter working on the rest of the car (interior, paint, etc...). The week before Carlise I burnt #1 and had to have it pulled apart and put on new p&c's. I suspected that the guys had been overly enthusiastic driving my car while it was at my buddies shop. I was sooo fed up with the car I told my buddy to take his time putting back together because I didn't even want to drive it anymore. He took most of the summer to do it and it sat all winter. I drove it a little here and there but not much. Since I'm having my 911 rebuilt I've been driving the speester. When I first started driving it a few weeks ago I thought it felt a bit "off". It was popping and spitting but not horribly. My buddy adjusted the carbs and it was better but still the occansional pop. The car ran better but still no what I'd remembered but I chalked that up to going from driving a 911 and then to the speedster. I changed the plugs a few weeks back and cleaned the rotor and cap connections and the car was running pretty good since then. Now all of a sudden on friday it starts popping like crazy and well, I posted that up top. I have this sinking feeling this is something big. I can't for the life of me figure out why a well running car would suddenly start spewing blue smoke and running as rough as it is, especially since it'd been running pretty good. If I have to rebuild this thing again I f'ing lose it!

How's it starting?

A little slow to fire up?

If so, then I would check the pilot valves in the carbs - One might be crudded up (it happens) and flooding one or two cylinders when it sits for a while and that might cause the blue smoke on start-up, the puking an popping.

But then again.....

Could you tow it to Carlisle? Maybe the brain trust there could figure out what it is.

Starts up fine Gordon, though it seems to have liost about 200 rpm at idle.

Lane, Cory tried talking me into getting it up there to let the brain trust have at it as well. Two things- 1. I'm not sure it would make it. 2. Although there is no doubt they could help, I'd hate to have to pull everyone away from their enjoyment to spend time fixing my car.


I left it at my buddies garage today. Hopefully tomorrow we can get a better idea of what the issue is. I already have rebuild kits for the webers and a new capand rotor so we should have what we need for a tune up if that's all it is. If I can get it up and tuning good I'll be there Saturday morning.

Mickey says: "it seems to have lost about 200 rpm at idle."

That sounds like the same thing as saying: "It seems to have lost one cylinder". And that's actually GOOD news.

If you lost a cylinder it is somewhat easy to figure out which one, and then on your way to fixing it.

When it is running 200 rpm slow, unsnap a plug wire -- one at a time. Three of the plug wires will respond by practically killing the engine, one of the plug wires will be unsnapped with practically no effect at all. Focus on the cylinder associated with that plug wire.

First of all, make sure the plug wire is throwing a spark. If it is, stop chasing electrical (distributor, coil, plug wires, etc.)

Avoid the temptation to immediately jump on the carb. You have already covered the most common culprit by blowing out the idle jets. Instead, quickly pull a valve cover and take a look at adjustment. Maybe a rocker arm adjuster is loose, maybe a valve spring is broke. In any case it is real fast and easy to take a look at the valve train and quickly find a problem or rule it out as a problem.

When you know it's not the idle jets, and you know it's not electrical, and you know it's not mechanical (valve train), and you know that the cylinder is still unresponsive to plugging and unplugging the spark plug wire, THEN go back to the carb.

So far, you have invested 15-30 minutes in process of elimination. Now it is time to take no prisoners. Pull the carb out of the car, AND the manifold. Check the gasket between the manifold and the head, it is fairly common for this gasket to get destroyed and allow an air leak. If that isn't the problem, then tear down the carb and blow everything out.

If you don't have a new manifold gasket, some say that just a bead of copper RTV works just as well (even better) than the gasket. I don't know, I've always had a gasket. But, I would go with the RTV if missing a major event was on the line.

Put it all back together, tune it up starting at the very beginning with balancing the carbss. Cross your fingers.

If you took it step by step, you can cover all of it in one night (4-6 hours).

For what its worth... My borthers 356A Coupe was blowing blue smoke for a couple weeks. He was thinking blow by at the cylinders, had planned on pulling the engine and rebuilding the "top end" with new pistons cylinders. Several days later the motor (a 912 motor) developed a loud ticking. Turns out a valve spring snapped. The blue smoke was created by a very fatigued (40 years old) valve spring on its way out.

Thanks guys.
I sure as hell hope its not a valve spring! Thats a pretty expensive engine with not many miles on it to have a broken spring.
My wrench buddy found a fouled plug in #2 today and replced it. I talked to him for a minute and he said we have to get the carbs rebuilt, get the valves adjusted and get the new cap and rotor on it. It's running "stronger" but its still not what it was. It still has a hesitation/stutter and there were a few pops.
My 911's engine is back in so hopefully I'll get that back in a days or so.
I'm gonna plan on spending the day working on the speedster tomorrow. Right now I'm gonna go out and pull the plug wires while it's running to see whats what.
Barring any unforseen problems I think I'll make it this weekend.

dont u just love webers, im about an eyeblink away from getting FI.

I hear ya Bob.

I just went out and while the engine was running I pulled #2 wire and no change, put it back on and pulled #1 and it stalled. Now it won't start again!!! WTF?!

Update: Called my wrench buddy and he told me to isulated under the tap on the rotor, did, fired right up. So at least I can make it home.

"dont u just love webers, im about an eyeblink away from getting FI. "
That is why I'm going with fuel injection this time around. Only time will tell if it was worth the extra expense.

Simple and functional Kadrons, set them once and forget them ~
http://www.lowbugget.com/main_page.html

Mickey, I know you cleaned out the low idle jets. Did you really get them clean? Did you shoot carb cleaner in the jet ports? I went through a similar situation with Marty G's car last last. I cleaned out the L jets and it still ran poorly. One cylinder just would not respond to the air fuel adjustment. We pulled the that L - jet cleaned it our again problem solved. It baffled me .
I also use a hand held IR gun to check the exhaust temps at each port. The colder one usually has the fuel delivery problem.
I make it a habit evey year when my car comes out of stores to thoroughly clean the L jets. If I don't I get the same symptoms you are getting.
I do love my Webers.

Relief is spelled "Dellorto". Really.

Agreed.

Joe,
I have my rebuild kits ready and waiting. With the crappy weather today I didn't do anything to my car. Hopefully tomorrow I can get to the carbs, dizzy and valve adjustment.

I ain't puttin another MF'ing cent into this thing!!!! I've spent more than enough to this point and to throw another $500-$800 on new carbs is ridiculous. (Now watch - I'll have a set of Dellortos in it by next week - ;)

Mickey you are truly snake-bitten. I feel for you. If you decide to tow it to Carlisle, I would be happy to help rebuild your carbs. While I'm not particularly skilled at tuning them, I can disassemble, clean/rebuild, and reassemble carbs pretty quickly. Then maybe Danny could put the tune on 'em. I know draggin' it to PA would be a bummer, but the offer is out there.

No worries Lane. I have thick skin ;)
Im thinking I can probably get it sorted out well enough to get to Carlisle. And since I actually fixed my wipers they wont be needed so we'll have lots of sunshine! :)

Wouldn't you know it, wrong dizzy. I never bothered to look when it came but its for a stock and I have MSD so I have to wait til tomorrow for the other one to come in. I'm still holding out hope to have it up and running for Carlisle by end of day friday.

On a brighter note - I got my 911 back today so barring any issues, and if worse comes to worse, I can head up to Carlisle in that, if you'll let it hang with the speedsters and spyders. ;)

I can't believe what a difference the top end rebuild and new exhaust system makes!! It sounds sick and is soooooo much more torquey! I'm gonna finish the initial break in miles tonight and it'll be ready for the following longer stretches of break in so I'm not out of the woods yet, but so far not a single drip of oil coming out anywhere :). Did I mention how good it sounds? ;)

You'll want MSD hollow pulg wires, too.
It all plays well together.

You know, ALL carbs are a learning curve. I love MY Webers, cause I know them. Basically you have to spend some time to learn them. I won't trade them, they run too damn good!

I just can't figure out why they're all installed backwards in Speedsters.............

Mickey, if you get it to Carlisle, I'll take a look at it no problem.

I guess I'll bring extra gloves to keep the hands clean......

When I get a plugged idle jet, which is rare, this is what I do:

Starting with the cylinder where the jet plugged last time, turn the mixture screw in a half-turn. If no speed drop is seen, that's it. If it does drop, turn it back and move on to the next one until you find the one with no rpm change. That will be it. Remove both the jet AND the mixture adjustment screw. Blow through the passages with a straw and clean the jet with carb cleaner. Then put it back together, start it up, and re-adjust that cylinder's mixture. If no increase in revs at idle or no change at all in engine sound, i.e. gentle popping going to smooth slightly faster idle, then you didn't get it clean. Try again.

I once pulled over for a plugged jet, blew it out, and was back on the road in less than 5 minutes. You can do it too. In fact, I did it at Carlisle, and was done before Tom Dewalt had finished filling up his tank at the station.

Thanks Danny!
I'm hoping to get it all sorted out BEFORE I get there, but bring the gloves just in case, I'll bring the webers.

At this rate I may be showing up in a barrowed Volvo wagon. On my way home tonight my 911 went kaput again. The alt light had come on and it didn't take long before I was roadside, car in a parking lot, schleppin it home. Hopefully it's just the volt reg and not the alternator, or a missed loose wire or the belt, but it ain't good. I bumped it and it started again and then let out a HUGE backfire and that was that, done and done.

Speedy will NOT be making the trip unless a miracle occurs, looks like its me and the 911.

Replaced the rotor and cap today and the carbs are (hopefully) being finished now. That still leaves tuning, etc... ad being that it's lunch time and theres a full lot at the shop I'm not holding out too much hope. That said, they've been known to rally for me in the past. I was helping with the carbs but got a "crisis call" to get to the restaurant and as soon as lunch hour settles I'll head back to the shop but I have to pick up my girl at school @ 2:30 so ............ Anyway, one way or another I'll see ya all around 10ish tomorrow. Hopefully in a red car :)