So New... And Not Sure What I've Got.

Hey I get the first "Welcome to the madness!!!!"

 

Looks like a CMC/FiberFab but could be an early Intermeccanica.  Does one of the engine deck lid hinges have Intermeccanica printed on it?

-=theron

It's a 1957 Porsche 356 Replica speedster.

 

 

 

 

I couldn't resist, welcome to the "madness"

 

Do you have a close up of that tag on the door jam?

.

Looks like a CMC/FiberFab but could be an early Intermeccanica.  Does one of the engine deck lid hinges have Intermeccanica printed on it?

 

That was my exact answer to Scott via e-mail.  :-)

 

Thanks for the quick responses.  

 

There is no tag on either door jam, or below the fuel tank either.  Also given that the battery is up front, so likely not a Beck (per Carey - Thank you.)

 

There does not appear to be a Intermeccanica insignia either printed or engraved in either of the engine deck lid hinges.  

 

The deck is held open by a pin, mounted to the left of the left hand hinge, against the firewall, on a ball chain.  Is that indicative of any particular outfit or universal to most?

 

Does the steering wheel provide indication?  I see the same wheel on several CMC photos, but not sure if this is a fairly standard steering wheel.

 

The tires are very close to the fender.  Less than 3/4 inch in the rear.  Is that indicative of anything?

 

The  search goes on, but I'm starting to feel the madness creep in.  It's good to be here.  Thanks for the warm welcome.

 

Final thought of the post:  It appears the build manuals in the Supporting Memebers Only accessible area is going to be worth the $49.  Consider me a Supporting Member, and patience please with my complete lack of expertise.  Lots of questions to follow.

 

S

First touch of "The Madness" - get an H shaped foam 72" up VW bus engine seal to complete air seal in engine compartment and add heater hoses if it still has heat exchangers or block shroud heat tubes if it has J-pipes (this might be done already). Some use the split foam 3/4" Lowes pipe insulation as a cheap substitute.

 

Seats look to be VW but not the door panels.

 

It probably has an IRS rear and 5.5" rims.  It is probably less clearance on one side (drivers) than the other too! Even with OEM drum brakes its close in back where lots of room in front.  WELCOME!

Whats on the tag below the door latch. Seats look like re-upholstered cmc buckets

The tag below the door latch is a Virginia State DMV VIN assignment tag.

 

Wolfgang -  Are your comments based on something you see (or don't see) in the engine photo?

What a beautiful color combo!

Scottie:

 

The following, tell me it's a CMC:

 

Momo style steering wheel and CMC horn button

 

914 style VDO instruments

 

EMPI shifter

 

The orange conical front turn signals

 

Engine lid hinges

 

Look on the rear of the chassis tunnel, between the seats, right in front of the "jump seat" should be a flap of carpet, lift it up. Stamped there will be the VW chassis number. Look at the base of the generator stand, there should be a stamped letter/number, this is your engine number. Reference those numbers at this site for chassis and engine year.  http://www.thesamba.com/vw/arc...bugchassisdating.php

 

 

BTW, be careful with that toggle switch above the radio; activation will take you to DEFCON 1. 

 

Welcome to the madness.

 

Art

 

 

Art - Only the VS carpets have the flap.  CMC/FF is a solid piece of tunnel carpet but it can be peeled back to reveal chassis number.

 

Here's marked up engine compartment:

 

 

We should all thank guys like Scottie for helping to improve Wolfgang's photo editing skills - he never used to be that good.

 

Nice car Scottie!  And welcome to the Madness of CMC ownership!  They are pretty good car bodies, but you never know who that heck built it originally, so quality and workmanship is all over the place.  Some absolutely great, some not so and a lot of nice ones in the middle.   WTTM, for sure!

 

I seriously like that ignition and starter button panel - reminds me of stuff I once worked on!!

 

Here's my CMC (with the family college in the background):

 

 

OK.  Looks like I am going with CMC as the Manufacturer.  1957 Speedster Model.

 

I'll get the chassis number when I pull the carpeting, and get the engine number when I get a chance.

 

The DEFCON 1 ignition / starter button appears not to be connected to anything,, but the seat keeps throwing my 9 year old out of the car when pushed, and there's no parachute on the ejector seat, so he's not very happy with it.

 

Clarification:  WTTM???

 

Insight - Where is a good source for chrome lettering and trimitems and general cosmetic, non-engine stuff.  Can I buy those from the remaining kit and Rollie shops?  or are they origin dependent?

 

Any points in the right direction based on what appears to be lifelong experience, would be greatly appreciated.  

WTTM = Welcome to the Madness!

 

I'd say it to you but others have beaten me to it...  aw what the heck, WTTM!!!

 

Make sure you come to whatever of our gatherings are in your end of the continent, either Carlisle or one of the many they have on the left coast.  These cars are fun, but the people are even better.

Chrome lettering?  Early PORSCHE lettering was near all gold plated.  I like KLASSE356 for OEM lettering.  Nice online catalog, good quality, fair prices and excellent service.  Others like SierraMadre or Stoddards.

 

MGMAGIC has original CMC NOS for these cars still available.  A "new" inexpensive supplier recently surfaced too - http://vintagespeedsterparts.com/

 

For sure add seat belts (Crow, Deitz) - secured thru floor with a side to side piece of steel angle iron (the floor is thin steel and bolts can pull thru even with large fender washers).  So are seats installed with hinges?  EMPI makes decent seat sliders for $24 a side (see recent post - actually SEARCH function works good on this site).

 

Bunch of Speedie owners in DC Area - Schu (Dale) is in Garrisonville, VA.  You can see where owners are under MEMBERS tab.  I retired and moved south from Springfield, VA. 

Seats are from Vintage Speedsters.... a

 

Are the bumpers mounted to the body with fiberglass blocks ( if so it's an early IM ) or if steel brackets I'll say it's a FiberFab or CMC 

Hello Scott - I have a '56 Carrera Speedster replica and have the same challenge of identifying my car as to who the builder was. Recently I was lucky to find a number of older Peterson Kit Car Magazines on one of my $1 book store trips. These magazines showed a plethora of Kit Car Manufacturers in the 80's, among those were CMC (whom I believe went broke for the multiple number of full and double page ads they took out!), and FiberFab. When I look closely to  the details like the orange front signal lenses they were definitely different. The Fiberfab builds had very thin and longish lenses, while CMC used what I call The Flat front Ice cream cone looking lenses like your car has. Fiberfab seats also tended to have long seat bottoms. To make things more confusing, I think CMC ended up absorbing Fiberfab into their business...ahhhh..the madddddddnessss.....

I remember considering Ryan Motors back in 1988 - not sure how many they produced but they too went belly up.  CMC was the company that also put a Speedster, Gazelle or MGTD in many airports (in a glass showcase cube).  They had quite an advertizing budget - plus their fancy Miami facility with the revolving tower showcase.  I finally ordered from CMC - the one part they had difficulty providing were the front turn signal fixtures.  They'd send one at a time - I must of gotten 7 before I had two that actually matched and they were marker lights off an 18 wheeler trailer.  Would love to know how many classic and california CMC/FF were produced.

 

 

In the picture above, you all may notice that the "office" part of the facility is actually a bit larger than the "Factory" part.  

 

That is NOT an optical illusion.  Classic Motor Carriages was, mostly, a marketing/advertising company that appears to have produced car body "kits" as an afterthought.  They had a "boiler room" of telemarketers whose sole job it was to sell car kits and they would pester you incessantly until you bought and sent your check and then they disappeared and were almost impossible to contact.

 

Someday, I would love to meet "Todd", my sometimes-when-you-can-find-him sales contact, just to give him a swift kick in the nuts.   

 

Ahhhh.......The good old days of Kit Car Production!

I bought a new Ford work truck from an out-of-town dealership recently.

 

Everything was sweetness and light, until they had to actually (you know) DO something. "Don" goes completely incommunicado for days at a time if he isn't feeling the love. At this point, the only way I can get a response is to threaten to contact Ford Customer Service. I've been told, "we've done everything we can. It's out of our hands now", like he's a surgeon or something, and it's all in the Lord's Hands.

 

It's not building a rocket in the service department- it's just sending paperwork to the state in something less than 4 weeks. And yet... I still have no documentation that I actually own the car I paid cash for. The temporary tags are expired. The truck sits patiently waiting to work.

 

Once I get my paperwork (34 days and counting), FoMoCo will get an honest assessment of my treatment.

Stan per my experience, go to the Dealer, talk to the GM only, insist on another temp tag or one of there Dealer tags...( I got a Dealer tag)   Alan

Stan, as Alan said speak to the GM only and just tell him to take the plate off of Todds demo ride. I'm sure your paper work will be done.

 

You can check with the service department and see when the area rep for Ford is due for a visit as well and express your concern to him/her. The area rep can make things happen as he represents corporate.

 

When I was in the business we had both a service rep and a sales rep who would visit once a month to help support the dealer.

Crazy stuff indeed. In Canada, when a vehicle is sold it does not leave the Dealership until the permanent plate is fixed upon it.

 

Much more bizarre though is buying a used boat from a Boat Dealership. I did just that back in May of 2014. At that point you pay the price of the boat and the Dealership collects the Federal tax due and forwards that to the Feds. Somehow paperwork gets sent to the Province and they bill you for what's due to them. Apparently,  often the bill will arrive up to TWO YEARS later. I'm at about 15 months and counting.

Good advice, and all of it would work under normal circumstances.

 

Allow me to vent:

 

I'm generally pretty good at getting what is right. I'm not out to screw anybody, but I won't let up on something until the situation is resolved. The leash is long, but at the end of it is a choke-collar. I've bought probably 20 new vehicles in the last 30 years- I'm on "Truck 14" (all new purchases) in 18 years of running this little business- and this is BY FAR the most jerked up new-car mess I've ever been a part of. It's not as bad as my JPS build in 2002 (nobody has hit on my wife yet, and the vehicle is all in one piece), but it's rounded the bend into the surreal.

 

There are complications in holding "Don" and "Dave"'s feet to the fire. The dealership is 2-1/2 hrs away (internet deal), so a friendly visit means I lose a day's worth of billing. The dealership is undergoing a full rebuild, so it looks like a construction site (which it is). There are a total of 3 phone lines running into the store at present. The Ford store is one of 17 dealerships (of various makes) owned by one guy, so when you call- the phone rings at one of the other places, and they transfer to cell phones (I'm not kidding).

 

I lived off the grid in a 3rd world country for three years in the '80s- communication from Nipa, Southern Highlands, Papua New Guinea in 1988 was easier than calling this dealership and talking with somebody. The chances of reaching anybody is similar to standing in a field and hoping to get struck by lightning. It's un-freaking-believable.

 

It's a perfect storm. The dealership is in disarray, communication is like entering a maze of mirrors (this is their excuse, BTW. They act like I should have sympathy for them trying to run a car dealership in the middle of a construction site), and there have been problems with the paperwork (which they started punctually 23 days after I wrote the big check) every single step of the process.   

 

I've spoken (on two golden occasions) with the GM, who resolved to "fix this" both times. He has proven to be a worthless slacker. He keeps kicking this back on the (100% commission) salesman ("Don"), who is trying to sell more cars out of his jobsite trailer so he can eat next week. It was the finance department that dropped the ball on all of this, who are the only people who can correct it, and who have nothing to gain by resolving it. The GM is apparently unable to control them- they exist like a fiefdom within the dealership, the only guys in the dealership who went to college (night-school, 1.7 GPA, gen-ed classes), coming and going as they feel the muse, answering to no one- least of all to the plebeian peasant customer from Illinois.

 

The finance guys exist behind an impenetrable wall topped with razor wire, guarded by angry eunuchs, and fed from the hand of Zeus. "Let the problem customer eat cake, and stew in his own bile" is the apparent motto. They yield to no one, and are clearly beyond the reach of "Dave" the boy-GM. One day they will answer to God or a lone gunman (or both), but they will bow to no other man.

 

Last night, I finally got the GM's cell phone number. For all the good it's done so far, I'm going to continue calling several times a day, every day (from various phones) until this is resolved. Once I have the paperwork in hand, I'm going to honestly fill out the "we-care-so-much-here-at-Ford" survey about my "dealership experience", which has been akin to being lit on fire in the showroom while everybody roasted marshmallows in the blaze.

 

Buying a vehicle from this place is apparently a zero-sum game. I saved $2K buying the truck where I did. It would seem the dealership is committed to making me pay for the difference somehow- in time and energy. A man doesn't always get what he pays for, but he always pays for what he gets.

Take the truck back and ask for your money...or walk in with a baseball bat and ask to speak to the owner!

Everybody fantasizes about doing this kind've "Walking-Tall" solution, but it isn't very practical in the real world. A baseball bat gets you thrown in jail- it doesn't get you plates.

 

What I need is a truck. I make money with it. It replaces a truck that is now gone. I've got 30 hours and $3000 in installed building custom shelving and racks for this van. I don't want justice, an apology, my money back, a new van, or anything besides a title and a set of Illinois "B" truck plates. It truly IS in the hands of the Illinois Secretary of State's office now, where it should have been 30 days ago, and where it floats around in government limbo waiting for resolution.

https://corporate.ford.com/contact-us.html

Email - Sales Issues or various phone numbers.

The way to get a dealer by the short hairs is to contact the OEM Zone Office.

> On Aug 28, 2015, at 8:32 AM, SpeedsterOwners.com <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Thanks Tom, that's a workable resource.

Spend another $100.  File a claim in your local court system, and have the dealership served on site, and Ford served in Detroit.  

 

You won't actually have to go to court, as it will occur to someone (likely a lawyer at corporate that accepts the serving) that will cost the company and the dealership more than the cost of the truck, to service and respond to the serving.  At that point, if the dealership hasn't already had a fire lit on the issue in order to avoid contact with Ford, than Ford will call the dealership with specific instructions to 'make this go away'.  At which point, you leave the filing open until the issue is resolved, but really have to take no further action unless it goes to the assigned preliminary hearing date.  

 

If it reaches preliminary hearing, the Dealership and Ford will need to send a rep to the hearing, and that will cost additional expense to them.  You win, as you have already  completed your responsibilities under the contract (payment) and they have yet to action their end, and in fact, have shown significant non-performance on their end.

 

It will never get to the hearing.  

 

Options in order of likelihood:

 

1.  Dealership resolves the issue, or puts in place a plan and schedule acceptable to you so you drop the filing.

 

2.  Ford calls dealership and tells them to make the problem go away.  Dealership responds appropriately.

 

3.  Ford calls dealership and tells them to transfer the issue to another, capable dealership, under conditions more favorable to you (distance, cost, etc...)

 

4.  Ford transfers the transaction, and reissues it to a new dealership.  Original dealership eats all costs.  New dealership benefits.

 

5.  Ford offers you a settlement (not likely unless all of above fail).

 

6.  It goes to hearing, you win, damages are awarded to you and could include lost income from delay, or associated profit (likely if it goes to court).

 

Remember - Ford and the Dealership are independent, yet dependent on one another.  Ford does not appreciate dealerships putting them in an uncomfortable position.

 

Just my two thoughts, but this certainly clears up the issue of where my kit originated.

 

Good luck

Well, there was a little thread drift here, but maybe both issues got or will be resolved asap: what's my speedster, and where's my truck?

 

That's my hope... but hope is the last resort of those who fail to plan.

 

Update at 10:39 AM CDT: The GM actually did something ! A set of Illinois temporary tags are on a UPS next-day air delivery truck (I've got a tracking number to prove this).

 

UPS says, that the package is absolutely, positively going to be delivered 39 minutes ago.

 

So, here I sit, dead in the water. I wonder if my driver and the finance guys are having a beer together, laughing about the dope who bought the truck and thought he could actually drive it.

Scottie:

 

Here's the engine seal you'll need:

 

http://www.busdepot.com/411813225

 

How's the rest of the restoration going?

Update at 10:39 AM CDT: The GM actually did something ! A set of Illinois temporary tags are on a UPS next-day air delivery truck (I've got a tracking number to prove this).

 

Stan, I suspect part of the problem might be getting that Next Day Air Delivery Truck to fly.  

Robert,

 

Thanks.  I just rolled up an old newspaper and stuffed it in the gap.  Seems to be working great.

 

Just kidding.  I just ordered your seal.  Thanks for the information.  Really not alot of critical restoration issues that need to be addressed as she runs and looks pretty great as she is.  Not to mention I have three small kids, and a wife and a company to run, that all seem to suck time from this world.  That said, these are what I think I need to do to get her into great visual / operational condition.  In my order of importance:

 

  0.0  Replace newspaper stuffing with Roberts new fangled sealing material

 

  0.1  Install hydraulic lift in my barn.

1. Replace the muffler.  Current one is ridiculously loud and obnoxious.
2. Rechrome wheels and replace tires.
3. Replace pitted chrome parts.
4. Remove the electric start toggle and botton, and fix the dash.
5. Replace GOLD lettering.  Question to the group - Dashboard insignia reads "Speedster".  I only find dashboard insignia that read "Porsche"  Did the builder affix the wrong insignia?
6. Replace carpets (not a fan of the black plush and prefer the tan basket-weave.  Not sure how the tan will contrast against the cream paint and maroon top and cover.  Thoughts from the group???
7. Replace the shift boot and emergency brake boot.
8. Re-fuse and re-wire.  It's a god awful mess.
9. Replace door panels 
10. Install tonneau cover before spring.
11. Purchase side curtains.
    
12. Pretty up the engine 
13. Louver the back deck (Not sure - May keep classic body.)
14. Flare the fenders (Not sure - May keep classic body)

Question for the group, and for my own peace of mind.  What should I have expected to pay for this car, from what you can see in the pictures?  (or is that a taboo topic in this forum?)

 

A couple of comments:

5) Yes
7) If you upgrade the shifter, you may get a new boot with it. My CSP came with a black leather boot. Vintage Speed may also, IDK
11) Purchased side curtains are useless, consider making your own

> On Aug 28, 2015, at 2:00 PM, SpeedsterOwners.com <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Dr. Clock,

I never answered your question:

 

Are the bumpers mounted to the body with fiberglass blocks ( if so it's an early IM ) or if steel brackets I'll say it's a FiberFab or CMC

 

The bumpers are not attached with fiberglass blocks.  There is a steel post (Almost looks like heavy angle iron, single sided) extending through and out of a cut in the fiberglass front, onto which is attached the bumper.

Thanks Tom.  I probably wont go through the trouble.  To be honest, I've removed the convertible top and frame already, as it really makes the ride tight, and frankly, the fun is being out with the top down.  I can't imagine using this car if the weather was the least bit iffy.  The previous owner had a number of plastic emergency covers that he gave me that I keep just in case rain presents itself unexpectedly.

Agreed. I only use the side curtains in and out of storage and on trips, like Carlisle.

I drive when the rain is 20% or less. I got burned this week, however, and my car got rained on at work. Fortunately, the full tonneau keeps the rain out better than the top & I roll with a microfiber towel on board. I toweled off the tonneau & I was good to go.

> On Aug 28, 2015, at 2:15 PM, SpeedsterOwners.com <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

This is emblem that would go on dash -

 

 

Some will say that the classic car is worth more than a flared

model - costly to add the flares.  Wait til you price rechroming!

Instead of re-chroming, you might want consider some 4-lug, 10-hole wheels from Special Edition.  With hubcaps, they look authentic vs the 8-hole VW wheels.