Soft Clutch Pedal makes it impossible to find a gear

My 356 neighbor thinks it might be a popped clutch cable. Anyone know if that’s a stock bug part on a VS? Maybe Bugformance has one.

Could be a couple of things, clutch fork would be my bet.

@Ryan (formerly) in NorCal popping sound was your cable's last few strands breaking. These are standard inventory at Vintage. They are shortened cables. Ask for the heavy duty cable as they are 'beefier' than stock.

Ryan, here's a diagram of the VW pedal assembly.

Number 24 is probably the 'throttle pin' that guy was referring to, but it wouldn't have anything to do with your clutch. There IS a pin (11) that connects the clutch pedal (6) to the clutch pedal shaft (26), but that almost never fails and probably isn't the problem.

As Jim says, it's almost always the clutch cable itself. And no, you can't use a standard VW clutch cable without shortening it, and VS can send you one that's already the right length.

If you're going through the drill of pulling the pedal assembly apart (which you have to do to replace the cable), there's a mod that can be done to that little hook on the end of the clutch pedal shaft that will eliminate the cause of most cable failures.

Tony can give you all the details (although I think he's out of town for a few days).

The clutch cable cognoscenti right here on the forum should be along pretty soon to tell you more.

Clutch cable, possible tube tab broken in tunnel, bent clutch fork, cracked cable anchor on trans, broken hook.   Best guess is the cable is  -  was hanging on by a few strands on pedal assembly....

You all are so helpful. Thanks so much.

...and the fact that not a single one of you threw shade at Dave shows what class acts you are.

Have a great weekend everyone!

I would guess clutch cable.  Had it happen on an old Honda in first gear.  Ended up driving 4 miles through city traffic without stopping because I was afraid of not getting it back into gear.  Cut through parking lots, back streets, etc. never stopped.  Was an adventure, as everything in life should be. I can still hear my grandmother's advice "Well, at least we're making memories."
-=theron 

Ryan, 

Where in California are you again?  In a pinch I have successfully used a stock bug cable with the aid of two cable saddle nuts (wrong name, but whatever).  You run the stock cable and put a big loop at the end. You use the wire nuts to hold the loop in the cable. Suprisingly this doesnt bind or come loose.

Shoot me a PM if youd like.

Ted in the bay area

Theron posted:

I would guess clutch cable.  Had it happen on an old Honda in first gear.  Ended up driving 4 miles through city traffic without stopping because I was afraid of not getting it back into gear.  Cut through parking lots, back streets, etc. never stopped.  Was an adventure, as everything in life should be. I can still hear my grandmother's advice "Well, at least we're making memories."
-=theron 

I try to keep that outlook in hindsight, then try like mad to make sure I live a boring life henceforth.

Years ago, in a steel Speedster, I lost my clutch cable. All synchro gearbox saved the day. Could shift well enough to get to help and when I HAD to stop I left it in 1st, killed the engine and got her going again in gear with the starter. Talk about making memories, this was 50 years, or so, ago & I still remember it like it happened yesterday.

Yeah, I lasted the first driving season, on my second clutch cable, before converting to hydraulic....

If it is a failed clutch cable, then why is the pedal returning to the top when his foot is removed?  

There is no return spring for the clutch pedal at the cluster, only the brake pedal (see Mitch's diagram).  There IS a return spring for the clutch actuator on the transaxle and that is enough to (gently) pull back the cable and pedal after the throw-out bearing is disengaged.

BUT!  There's one more thing and it would cause a "POP!" when it fails:

If the clutch cable tube welds have let go both at the brace right behind (rearward) the pedal cluster AND at the point where the tube is welded to the pan where it exits from the frame just in front of the transaxle, it will "POP!" when the last holding weld finally lets go AND render your clutch pedal useless.  Ask me how I know.

Welding the front of the tube back in place requires cutting a door/flap on the passenger side of the tunnel to gain access for the welding tip.   The rear can be fixed without welding with that magic gizmo that Dave Stroud invented that fits on the end of the cable tube (maybe he can repost a photo - it's pretty trick).  Otherwise, you would have to get the welding tip up into a really tight spot or, for better accessibility, remove the engine/transaxle.  

Personally, I like Dave's gizmo better.

Found it!  Thank you Theron for a decent search function!

https://www.speedsterowners.com...4#507117866427845064

Ryan,

I know everyone is throwing options your way and you should make a list and then look up photos of what the problems look like so you can eliminate them one at a time. I'll help you out with one of them, the clutch cable.

Jack up the car and have a look on the driver's side near the rear axle/transmission. See if the clutch cable is still attached at the transmission. Here's what it looks like:

Everything I looked up indicated the tube that the clutch cable runs through has probably come loose inside the tunnel so the entire tube is moving and tension is not being being put on the clutch cable fully. When you pump the clutch the tube may hang up on something momentarily and suddenly you can shift again.

Look here and see if the whole assembly is moving (you'll need an assistant):

That's all I have for now.

Ryan:  Here's a way to test out my cable tube theory:

Remove the shift coupler inspection plate on top of the tunnel, behind the seats.

There should be several metal tubes inside of the tunnel and visible through the opening.  The clutch cable tube is the largest (about 1/2" dia.) pushed to the driver's side at the top of the tunnel.  Have someone fully step on the clutch pedal while you watch that tube - it should not move at all when the pedal is depressed.  If it does, the welds have let go.

The clutch cable tube is/can be welded to the frame/tunnel right at the rear driver's side of that inspection opening at the top of the tunnel - the cover fits over the welded area.  Look close and you'll likely see where it had been welded.  A decent welder can weld it back and you may not need to remove the cable to do it (but you'll have to get the car to the welder's shop).  One caveat is to get it welded in precisely the same spot as it has moved front-to-back.  Where it sits in relation to the frame is important to return to your original clutch pedal adjustment.  You may have to release the clutch cable adjuster to relieve tension from that tube to get it back where it belongs, then re-adjust the clutch after welding the tube.

Welding it there eliminates removing the engine/transaxle and probably eliminates the need to use Dave's fix-up gizmo, as great an idea as it is.

@Gordon Nichols, you are exactly right. My neighbor dropped by in his 356 and showed me exactly this spot:

By feel I could tell it was frayed and I was hitting sharp wire ends. I think that explains why it worked a bit, then got a bit better, but is still pretty darn broken.

I'm ordering two clutch cables from VS. And we'll see how far that takes me. My neighbor will let me use his lift and walk me through it as well.

Nope....I can't take credit for targeting a bad cable.  I thought it was the metal tube that the cable runs through.

Good that you found a frayed cable, though.  MUCH easier to swap that out than anything else!

But what Ryan forgot to mention I was on the opposite side of the road in said traffic entering the freeway. I also said to kill the motor and start it in first gear with no clutch so you could move. If you live close to where you were I live close to you. I can come over and help fix it without sending it to Tony. 

I ordered 2 from VS but they source them from a third-party and it won't be until next week that they get them back in stock and shipped up to me. I ordered 2.

Any reasonable alternatives worth considering that may get me up and running this weekend?

Ryan, call Tony and see what he suggests.

I know that some folks have done what Ted suggests in a pinch.

Cut a bug cable and splice it with cable clamps.

How about this, get a standard cable from Bugformance, cut it at the "right" spot (sorry i cant be more specific) and overlap the cut piece and use 2 tiny wire rope cable clamps. Did that in a buggy, 15 years ago and its still going strong. The cut point has to be about 4"-6" outside of the bowden tube, in the area where the cable is exposed but far enough from the arm to not interfere.

Chris

Darn! I think I took too long to find a picture and type a note!

I did this on Bridget. The cable I replaced was just looped and held with one clamp. I believe it held like that for more than 40,000 miles over 35 years. 

Ryan,  Cut a stock cable 3.5 " from the loop end ,  fed the cable through the clutch tube and Bowden tube  then over lap it to the short piece securing it with,  2 -1/8"  cable clamps

You should remove the carpet from the right side tunnel, you should have this cutting on the tunnel...

Clutch cable almost no doubt. Tony should have one. Been there several times in  VW world and in our babies. 

majorkahuna posted:

Clutch cable almost no doubt. Tony should have one. Been there several times in  VW world and in our babies. 

Better late then never!

BTW since no one mentioned it, the tube is the Bowden tube. Someone else can explain who the hell Bowden is. Maybe Ferdinand's second cousin or the first poor guy that had to weld one. 

My spare that I had for the last break turned out to be the wrong length even though it came from Kirk. Tony ordered a few at that time so he may still have one. 

There is the town of Bowden WV  just 9 miles from me in West Virginia. which has nothing more than two campgrounds along Shaver's Fork River  where there's "tubing" but not the clutch type :~)

OK, I'll play Cliff Claven here.

According to Wikipedia (which is never wrong), some dude named Bowden patented a bicycle brake around 1900 using the double cable most people now think of as the normal way to make bicycle brakes work.

Before that, bike brakes were worked by solid rods and stuff.

If anyone reading this is still awake, note that the Bowden tube on our clutch cables is different than the steel tube that Gordon was talking about earlier, which is spot welded inside the tunnel and comes undone occasionally, making clutch pedals mushy.

The Bowden tube is there mainly to create problems of a completely different kind.

Thanks folks, I will be here all week. Remember to tip your server. 

"The Bowden tube is there mainly to create problems of a completely different kind."

Gee Mitch, you have such a way with words. I wonder why none of the car manufacturers hired you to write text for their ads?

..."buy our cars, they're less crappy than the competition"...

SPOT ON, MITCH!

Will Hesch posted:

..."buy our cars, they're less crappy than the competition"...

 Will, there once was a car company that tried that approach: