Question- My Fiberfab Speedster is built on a 1965 beetle pan. The speedster body is lighter than the beetle and the torsion bars are harsher than they need to be. Has anyone ever switched to torsion bars that would match the weight of the Speedster to give a softer ride? Just a thought. I searched the site but didn't find anything.
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I don't think the weight is that far off. A '66 bug was 1672# and I bet your FF is close to 1800#? It's usually the use of stiff gas shocks, too much air in tires and low profile tires that results in a harsh ride. Go too soft and you get body roll which would adversely affect spirited driving. Some here have mentioned removing a leaf (small or large) from stacks in front to make softer and also lower the front. Easy to do. Weight on back has to be same as a bug. Oil shocks are recommended over the gas for a softer ride.
I have a '16 Mazda MX-5 (Miata) GT with a soft ride by design. Many claim it has too much body roll during spirited driving. I went with stiffer Club version heavier rear springs and Bilstein shocks. Guess you feel it's going faster with body roll but it isn't. It has 17" 205/45 UHP Summer tires. My next set will be 215/45x15 tires which are cheaper (more readily available) and offer more rubber.
Jimmy, don't know if you've tried this yet, but the most commonly overlooked cause of ride harshness in these cars is tire pressure. Recommended pressure for Speedsters (and old VW's) is much lower than for most modern cars. Try 20 psi front and 26-28 rear for starters.
You may be surprised how much of a difference that can make.
Hmm.. I have the crappy KY gas adjust shocks. I will change them out. It seems the car is super stiff . It bounces when bumps are encountered instead of absorbing the shock. I thought it was the torsion bars and not the shocks. My car rides as if it has almost zero give like a go kart.
What brand oil shock is good to use?
Koni or Bilstien
Boge, if you can find them (try bugcity.com) although they'll run you $90 each (NOS).
Or just get a set of Munroe oil shocks for a 1965 Beetle Sedan. The cheaper the better.
Just try to avoid the gas shocks.
While you're waiting for them to arrive, try running the tire pressure down as mentioned. That is usually a huge difference.
18 - 20 pounds front
22 - 24 pounds rear
Go much lower than these settings and you begin to risk sidewall roll-over (and a bunch of squealing) in hard cornering.
Cip1 has Boge and Empi front oil shocks for ~$30 each. $90 each and you're getting in Koni price range.
Get el cheapo oil shocks and 22 lbs front 24 lbs rear...done ~
Thanks guys, this forum has been very supportive and helpful.
Trying what the guys suggested on lowering the pressure made a huge difference on my car. Going with what the mfg suggested is a start but lowering the range is even better.
Best ride is with Koni.
Firmer ride use bilstein
I installed Koni's on the Spyder. $100 a wheel and well worth the money.
I just replaced the el cheapo, worn out in 13k miles, front shocks on the Speedster with KYB Gas Shocks. $18 a pop. They're GGGREAT! Speedsters were Porsche's Sports Car, not a limo. They're supposed to ride and handle like a sports car. Want a soft ride...get a Buick.
Soft ride = body wobble.
Just sayin'
Jim - You're right! Each little piece of puzzle adds to harshness - wide wheels, low profile tires, new shocks, tire pressure - even lowering. alignment, large diameter anti-sway bars and caster shims or not have impacts.
Jim G- what KYB Gas Shocks part number did you use on your Speedster? Is your Speedster one of Kirk's VS? Thank you for any info.
Michael B (aka bluespeedster SoCal) posted:Jim G- what KYB Gas Shocks part number did you use on your Speedster? Is your Speedster one of Kirk's VS? Thank you for any info.
Bought the KBY shocks from Summit racing. KBY-34314, $17.68 each. I also ordered the rear shocks, KBY-343143, $29.20 each. Should have checked the rear shocks before ordering; they had KBY gas shocks installed in new condition. I'll be returning the rear shocks.
There is a $40 rebate on a set of 4 but MUST be purchased before 10/31.
My Speedster is a JPS.
I don’t run the crazy low pressures everybody here recommends. I run 28 psi in the rear, 24 psi in the front. Any less, and the sidewalls start to roll on heavy cornering.
As far as shocks: Konis, front and rear. The only time it’s painful is when you have to write the check. I don’t know of anyone who has put them and regretted it.
Stan Galat posted:I don’t run the crazy low pressures everybody here recommends. I run 28 psi in the rear, 24 psi in the front. Any less, and the sidewalls start to roll on heavy cornering.
As far as shocks: Konis, front and rear. The only time it’s painful is when you have to write the check. I don’t know of anyone who has put them and regretted it.
The lower pressures are "comfort settings" for the street and as Stan said, any time you're pushing it pressures should be a few psi higher. When parking lot slalomming 35-40 years ago, tire pressure was the first thing checked and iIrc you had to be running at least 30 psi.
Start with the Koni's on the softest settings. I've been told that the only thing better is properly valved Bilsteins.
You know, thinking about this – if you want to confirm that it is the shocks giving you the ride harshness, just take what you’ve got off and drive around the block. It’s not something you want to do for any length of time, but if the harshness persists, you’ve got some other problem.
Up front, I've tried pressures of 18, 20, 22, 24, 28, and even 32 (when the alignment shop set what they thought was right and I didn't realize it until I got home).
I keep coming back to 22 psi. The difference in harshness is massive between that and, say, 28 psi, but I think the handling and braking are better, too.
Howzat?
The front end of my car is so lightly weighted that a firm tire tends to skid or skitter more than a softer one. This is particularly noticeable under heavy braking. If you hit any bumps once you're on the pedal, the tire wants to chirp and skid. This maybe isn't helped any by the stock Empi shocks on my VS, and I should probably switch to Koni's.
But, cornering hard with the fronts at 22 psi, the front tire tread seems to slide before the sidewall rolls under. Of course, I've got swing axles at the other end, so that might be fudging the equation, too. The back usually wants to let go before the front.
Sacto Mitch posted:
... This maybe isn't helped any by the stock Empi shocks on my VS, and I should probably switch to Koni's.
But, cornering hard with the fronts at 22 psi, the front tire tread seems to slide before the sidewall rolls under. Of course, I've got swing axles at the other end, so that might be fudging the equation, too. The back usually wants to let go before the front.
Perhaps the (very slight) extra pressure I run in the front is the result of running IRS, but the shocks and tires make a huge difference as well.
What I can say is this: I don't dance with my car-- I flog it like a rented mule. I'm not anywhere near as smooth as Carlos, who's a better driver than me by a wide margin. But last Saturday, while traveling at the same pace on very tight mountain roads-- his mid-engined (swing-axle) Spyder was breaking loose, when my car was not.
I really, really like the Konis, but I've got Vredestein Sportrac 5s, which are hands-down the best tires I've had on any car ever. They're not all-season tires, they're summer compound, supple and grip like glue. I've run everything on this car from Kumhos to Dunlops to Yokos. This tire is all that, and can be had for about $80 a piece, which could be the deal of the century.
Good tires make a huge difference.
Currently available in 195-65-14...only.
I'm about to switch to ContiPremiumContacts, a reasonably-priced summer-only tire that's available in a lot of sizes, including 175/65-15 (the size I'm currently running).
I like the way these grip, with predictable breakaway, on my Mini Cooper.
I also like the 175 width - comfortable clearance in back and probably not much difference in usable grip (again - on swing axles) compared to 185's. My gut feeling is that the swing axle geometry, rather than tire performance, is the limiting factor with swing axles.
I also have this queasy feeling that, with swing axles, you don't want a really sticky tire in back. I'm thinking I'd rather have it slide out controllably than dig in and tuck under. Am I nuts?
edsnova posted:Currently available in 195-65-14...only.
I didn't mean to put up the Tire Rack link. Here's the one for a US online dealer with various sizes.
They make the tires in 75 different sizes. I've got 195/60 15s, but they make 175 and 186/65 15s, as well.
Sacto Mitch posted:I also have this queasy feeling that, with swing axles, you don't want a really sticky tire in back. I'm thinking I'd rather have it slide out controllably than dig in and tuck under. Am I nuts?
Probably not. Swing axles scare the crap out of me.
Stan, i'm glad to see you finally installed your Vredestein Sport Trac 5's. They are sweet and they are quite.
They have the 195/60 15s in stock but when I look up the 185/65 and 175/65 I get this:
"This item is sold out and we currently are not accepting backorders for this item."
Well damn!
I don't like the way my 185s look on my 4.5" wide rims. The 175s would probably be perfect.
I like the way the 195s look on my 5.5" wide rears though.
Now if Vintage made a 5" wheel with the correct offset for the front of the Spyder, maybe the 185s wouldn't look so pooched out. I better be on the look out for flying pigs first.
Of course my Vintage 190s look like they're made by Mattel next to Stan's wheels.
Harsh ride? You might also check to see if your shocks are bottoming out - that could be the case if you lowered suspension about 2 inches (dropped front spindles don't count). At rest, your shocks should be about centered - up compression about the same as down compression distance. A stock VW sits higher than most Speedsters. A bottomed shock is like putting a hunk of 1" solid pipe in place of the shock. There are shocks available for lowered suspensions. You could also be sitting on the bump stops in the rear.
Carlos G posted:They have the 195/60 15s in stock but when I look up the 185/65 and 175/65 I get this:
"This item is sold out and we currently are not accepting backorders for this item."
Well damn!
I don't like the way my 185s look on my 4.5" wide rims. The 175s would probably be perfect.
I like the way the 195s look on my 5.5" wide rears though.
Now if Vintage made a 5" wheel with the correct offset for the front of the Spyder, maybe the 185s wouldn't look so pooched out. I better be on the look out for flying pigs first.
Of course my Vintage 190s look like they're made by Mattel next to Stan's wheels.
The link I provided was what I came up within 2 minutes of a "Vredestein Sportrac 5" search. 99% of the hits are going to be from England, but there is somebody in the US who can get them.
Regarding your wheels-- you could always get the 4-1/2"s widened on the inside. It'd be a ton of money, but still less than my wheels. BTW: your car does not look like any part of it was made by Mattel-- it runs like a scalded dog, and I think the whole thing looks purposeful and exceedingly cool. The customized "cockpit" tonneau is brilliant.
WOLFGANG posted:Harsh ride? You might also check to see if your shocks are bottoming out - that could be the case if you lowered suspension about 2 inches (dropped front spindles don't count). At rest, your shocks should be about centered - up compression about the same as down compression distance. A stock VW sits higher than most Speedsters. A bottomed shock is like putting a hunk of 1" solid pipe in place of the shock. There are shocks available for lowered suspensions. You could also be sitting on the bump stops in the rear.
I'm 99% sure that's the problem, Greg. That's why I told him to take the shocks off and drive around the block.
Carlos, if you make the upgrade, go to 175 70's. 175 65s will be only 24 inch tall. 175 70 will be about 25 inch. 185 65 are 24.5. They will look cool too.
Here you go Carlos. 24.7". Go old-school look with modern compounds . Vulcan probably has better prices.
Marty Grzynkowicz posted:Carlos, if you make the upgrade, go to 175 70's. 175 65s will be only 24 inch tall. 175 70 will be about 25 inch. 185 65 are 24.5. They will look cool too.
Here you go Carlos. 24.7". Go old-school look with modern compounds . Vulcan probably has better prices.
That's a Sprint Classic. Not the same thing at all.
Stan Galat posted:I don’t run the crazy low pressures everybody here recommends. I run 28 psi in the rear, 24 psi in the front. Any less, and the sidewalls start to roll on heavy cornering.
As far as shocks: Konis, front and rear. The only time it’s painful is when you have to write the check. I don’t know of anyone who has put them and regretted it.
Great advise. I too run the Vredestein Sportrac 5 tires and will try your recommended psi for the front and rear. Now to buy some $$ Koni shocks but if there is any chance they will be better than the set I current have it will be well worth the expense.
Stan Galat posted:Marty Grzynkowicz posted:Carlos, if you make the upgrade, go to 175 70's. 175 65s will be only 24 inch tall. 175 70 will be about 25 inch. 185 65 are 24.5. They will look cool too.
Here you go Carlos. 24.7". Go old-school look with modern compounds . Vulcan probably has better prices.
That's a Sprint Classic. Not the same thing at all.
Yes, I am aware. The classic are also a summer tire with a grippy 220 rating. They also look better on a Spyder. It was just an alternative. A lot of the metal 356 guys use them on pretty brisk road rally's and they perform well. I personally don't think modern tires look good on a Spyder. Anand, help me out here:-)
coker tire offers a good selection. pricey but you don't skimp on a pair of running shoes? do you?
the sprint classics have a soft sidewall and made over seas if I recall.
As usual, I agree with @Marty Grzynkowicz as far as looks go -- the vintage tread of the Sprint Classic makes it a cult favorite with the metal 356 guys (me included). GREAT choice for the money!
Other sweet options (but $$):
Avon CR6ZZ in 175/70 R15 -- but they are $250 each!
Pirelli Cinturato CN36 -- same price, way cool vintage tread (some don't care for it, however). Comes in 165 and 185. Very period, as as good as the Sportrac 5. I have a set of these on my 25,000 original mile 912.
I agree with the advice offered above; superb tires and some Konis should make all the difference in the world.
Thanks @arajani. I did not mention the other two because of Price $$$
Marty Grzynkowicz posted:Thanks @arajani. I did not mention the other two because of Price $$$
I agree, @Marty Grzynkowicz -- Vredestein is the best value without a doubt. The Sprint Classic is probably the best blend of performance and vintage looks, and thus the choice for so many early cars. I had an extra set for my 912, and we are putting them on @Robert M's car. They had 50 or so miles on them!!
After seeing how Stan's car performed in the mountains I'm pretty sure I'm going to ask Carey for the Sportrac 5s on my Coupe.
Lane Anderson posted:After seeing how Stan's car performed in the mountains I'm pretty sure I'm going to ask Carey for the Sportrac 5s on my Coupe.
You certainly won't regret it.
